Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #133

[imstilla.grandma]

I'm just throwing this out there. Read the book over 50 years ago and it came to mind reading these discussions.

The Illustrated Man Plot Summary | Course Hero

That’s interesting. I can see why you thought about it. I copied a little from the character analysis. I’ll bookmark the link for later too. Thanks. Welcome to WS. Enjoy the ride. You might want to buckle up though it might get a little bumpy along the way. Who knows what’s coming out next?

The Illustrated Man
The collection features two Illustrated Men—one in the frame story, found in "Prologue: The Illustrated Man" and "Epilogue," and one in the story "The Illustrated Man." Both have pictures on their bodies that tell stories and, according to the artist who made them, show the future. In the frame story, which sets the collection's tone, the Illustrated Man hates his Illustrations. They inspire dread and terror in people, and no one can bear to be around him. Because of this, he has become transient, moving from carnival job to carnival job. He is a victim of the Illustrations. However, he also may be a perpetrator of violence. His final Illustration shows him killing the narrator. Since the narrator runs away, however, readers never find out if the Illustrated Man is indeed a killer. In the latter story, the Illustrated Man is named William Philippus Phelps. One of his Illustrations shows him killing his wife, which he later does, and which leads to his own death, also shown on his body.

 

[MistyWaters]

...snipped to reply....

Several factors.. I got
He looks like BG
He sounds like BG
He has a criminal history of violence, and now the 9yr old
He was in the area at the time of the murders?
The tattoo?

What else have we got that could be "several factors"? Or is this it?

Aside from the recent attack on the 9-year old, these possible factors are evident by his online presence alone. But there’s got to be people who were personally acquainted with him - friends, relatives, ex-girlfriends and co-workers all within a short distance to Delphi who were surely well aware of the sketches, video, photos, audio, physical description etc of the perpetrator who was believed to be responsible for the murders of Libby and Abby.

So I’d be interested in learning if anyone had ever tipped this guy to LE and if not, why not. It’s real easy for people to step forward after the fact, much like the step-father and step-brother announcing to the media what an evil character he is. But my question would be where were they all over the past four years while LE and the families of the girls have been desperately pleading for that one good tip that would lead to the identity of the killer?

 

[Spartygirl]

Thanks.

Re: “If I’m in Seattle, can I post a check-in claiming to be in Los Angeles?”, excellent question.

—
Re: “Where was a before 2016...”, he is from Tennessee, and also spent time in South Dakota.

*more detailed information in media thread.

Not sure if the "Check -In question has been answered yet as I am just catching up in here but, YES.... a person can "Check-In" anywhere no matter where they are.

 

[Area52]

Is it possible that the "signatures " are the same? Maybe if this freak is BJ, the same signature was found by LE. Could it be a dog bite????? Just thinking And hoping

 

[Megster024]

A few things I noticed abt Jbc may have been brought up...
Laid off welder, not currently working and wasn’t working during feb 2017 either so lots of idle time...
Bday 3/13 Iowa 7/13/12 Abby and Libby 2/13/17. All on 13th, he also had a charge of treaspassing on 10/13.
It always bother me abt y bg didn’t notice or take phone seeing as they are so common...but if I did 13 years in prison while that technology was developed and gaining popularity perhaps one would underestimate two younger people having them. Most 18-40 year old ppl would b super aware of that possibility IMO. This particular guy may not have been...

 

[carbuff]

I'm just throwing this out there. Read the book over 50 years ago and it came to mind reading these discussions.

The Illustrated Man Plot Summary | Course Hero

Oh. Yes. I haven't read that for like 50 years but you're right, there are similarities.

I bet there's interesting information in the rest of JCs tattoos but I don't think I can hold onto my stomach long enough to try to look.

 

[Nancy1954]

experienced criminal with time, who left behind his victims mobile phone?a phone that was likely ringing/vibrating/lighting up with concerned family trying to find them, or at least,snapchat notifications pinging. Unless the phone was turned off. But still, he would have seen it filming him, why did he leave it behind?

We don't know that he had time, Rosegold68. What if the texts from Libby's dad were occurring during the murders? Libby's dads texts might have interrupted things, or at the very least had the monster rushing to get as far away from the scene of his crimes as possible. We have no idea to this day what happened to/with Libby's phone, only that it was found near her. Perhaps in his haste to get out of there he simply overlooked it. Who knows.. JMO

 

[Boxer]

Aside from the recent attack on the 9-year old, these possible factors are evident by his online presence alone. But there’s got to be people who were personally acquainted with him - friends, relatives, ex-girlfriends and co-workers all within a short distance to Delphi who were surely well aware of the sketches, video, photos, audio, physical description etc of the perpetrator who was believed to be responsible for the murders of Libby and Abby.

So I’d be interested in learning if anyone had ever tipped this guy to LE and if not, why not. It’s real easy for people to step forward after the fact, much like the step-father and step-brother announcing to the media what an evil character he is. But my question would be where were they all over the past four years while LE and the families of the girls have been desperately pleading for that one good tip that would lead to the identity of the killer?

No SA in his record. He is likely thought of as a regular "hood."
Unless his GF had an inkling of his interest in children, I don't think his friends would connect the dots, and they all are likely anti-police for obvious reasons

 

[Rosegold68]

We don't know that he had time, Rosegold68. What if the texts from Libby's dad were occurring during the murders? Libby's dads texts might have interrupted things, or at the very least had the monster rushing to get as far away from the scene of his crimes as possible. We have no idea to this day what happened to/with Libby's phone, only that it was found near her. Perhaps in his haste to get out of there he simply overlooked it. Who knows.. JMO

yes i agree and have said as much. I don't think he's as sophisticated/experienced as some think. the phone was likely ringing/lighting up/vibrating from family calls as well as snapchat notifications pinging. I didnt say he 'had the time'. I think he left the phone behind by mistake.

 

[MistyWaters]

Is it possible that the "signatures " are the same? Maybe if this freak is BJ, the same signature was found by LE. Could it be a dog bite????? Just thinking And hoping

If a dog was involved in the attack on Abby and Libby I’d be astounded that LE would neglect to mention that as a possible lead for tips due to the obvious connection to a suspect with a dog. A man with a dog was also never mentioned in the possible sightings of witnesses involved in either of the sketches. Just my opinion, for that reason I don’t think a dog was involved nor was a puppy hidden inside the suspect’s coat.

 

[catch_22]

A few things I noticed abt Jbc may have been brought up...
Laid off welder, not currently working and wasn’t working during feb 2017 either so lots of idle time...
Bday 3/13 Iowa 7/13/12 Abby and Libby 2/13/17. All on 13th, he also had a charge of treaspassing on 10/13.
It always bother me abt y bg didn’t notice or take phone seeing as they are so common...but if I did 13 years in prison while that technology was developed and gaining popularity perhaps one would underestimate two younger people having them. Most 18-40 year old ppl would b super aware of that possibility IMO. This particular guy may not have been...

Walking across that bridge, you have to be looking down for each step. I'm sure he was able to glance up from time to time to see where they were, but I don't think he had any idea she had recorded him. I think part of it is a generational thing as well. I've occasionally seen some crazy stuff, and I never realize that I have a camera with me. Off topic, but I watch these protests on tv and I swear like 90% of the protestors have their phones out recording. There were a bunch of the capitol protesters taking selfies, etc. It's almost like they're more concerned with going viral than they are about whatever they are protesting.

Also, wasn't Libby's phone an iphone? Don't iphones have non-removable batteries? So if he took the phone, LE might have been able to track him. Or he would have had to have tried to break the phone "hopefully enough" so it couldn't be tracked.

He may have never been aware of the phone. I personally think there is a good chance that the phone ringing could have prompted him to flee the scene. If he was aware of the phone, I would be surprised if he didn't throw it in the water to keep it quiet, prevent tracking, and probably expected it to never be found. I just can't believe that he had any inkling that he was recorded on it.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

yes i agree and have said as much. I don't think he's as sophisticated/experienced as some think. the phone was likely ringing/lighting up/vibrating from family calls as well as snapchat notifications pinging. I didnt say he 'had the time'. I think he left the phone behind by mistake.

Why would the killer be inclined to take a phone that might’ve been ringing/lighting up? He would’ve known nobody would’ve been able to reach Libby. No indication the motive had any connection to a robbery of a cellphone. Taking a cellphone would’ve been his mistake since it could be tracked. JMO

 

[SouthernMom]

It sounds like what the recent young victim of this POI suffered is the “stuff of nightmares” to steal a quote from an early investigator who had viewed the video on Liberty Germans phone.
I would think that if the phone got tossed or misplaced during the struggle with them, there was not enough time to find and recover it prior to the family showing up and searching for them.

 

[kkdj]

experienced criminal with time, who left behind his victims mobile phone?a phone that was likely ringing/vibrating/lighting up with concerned family trying to find them, or at least,snapchat notifications pinging. Unless the phone was turned off. But still, he would have seen it filming him, why did he leave it behind?

Maybe for the same reason a person might get a tattoo that significantly resembles one of the murdered girls?
idk. It all seems kind of dumb to me. Maybe there's some sort of a taunt with both? I can't figure out why BG didn't take the phone. Maybe he couldn't find it in his scurry to get out of there. idk.

 

[Megster024]

Walking across that bridge, you have to be looking down for each step. I'm sure he was able to glance up from time to time to see where they were, but I don't think he had any idea she had recorded him. I think part of it is a generational thing as well. I've occasionally seen some crazy stuff, and I never realize that I have a camera with me. Off topic, but I watch these protests on tv and I swear like 90% of the protestors have their phones out recording. There were a bunch of the capitol protesters taking selfies, etc. It's almost like they're more concerned with going viral than they are about whatever they are protesting.

Also, wasn't Libby's phone an iphone? Don't iphones have non-removable batteries? So if he took the phone, LE might have been able to track him. Or he would have had to have tried to break the phone "hopefully enough" so it couldn't be tracked.

He may have never been aware of the phone. I personally think there is a good chance that the phone ringing could have prompted him to flee the scene. If he was aware of the phone, I would be surprised if he didn't throw it in the water to keep it quiet, prevent tracking, and probably expected it to never be found. I just can't believe that he had any inkling that he was recorded on it.

JMO

Thanks for commenting. I believe it was an iPhone. It was a 5 or 6. I agree that he got spooked, I always kinda thought it was from them running and yelling but idk. I was just wanting to point out the mass amount of time he was in prison while we all had our blueberries and sidekicks learning the art of cell phones. He just may not have been as aware as someone else that age. Who knows except bg and le. IMO

 

[Rosegold68]

Why would the killer be inclined to take a phone that might’ve been ringing/lighting up? He would’ve known nobody would’ve been able to reach Libby. Taking a cellphone would’ve been his mistake since it could be tracked. JMO

because just maybe he saw libby holding it, filming...why leave that there

why not quickly bury it, throw it in nearby creek, break it up....anything except leave it so it could still be used. she sent a snapchat as well as did a video and then audio recording....there would have been some degree of 'fiddling' which should have alerted someone of average intelligence to the fact she was using it to capture evidence

 

[carbuff]

possible scenario

They're marching down the hill at gunpoint
she tries to surreptitiously dial for help
he sees her and flings the phone into the water so they can't get it or use it

 

[Nancy1954]

yes i agree and have said as much. I don't think he's as sophisticated/experienced as some think. the phone was likely ringing/lighting up/vibrating from family calls as well as snapchat notifications pinging. I didnt say he 'had the time'. I think he left the phone behind by mistake.

I'm not nitpicking here, Rosegold68, but you said.. had time. I thought that meant the same as.. had the time. We can certainly agree to disagree on whether he is experienced or not.

 

[Boxer]

possible scenario

They're marching down the hill at gunpoint
she tries to surreptitiously dial for help
he sees her and flings the phone into the water so they can't get it or use it

Did those river searchers have more than one glass bottom bucket? They looked like they were using their feet to search the creek bed.
Maybe we didn't see a proper scuba search at another time.

 

[MistyWaters]

because just maybe he saw libby holding it, filming...why leave that there

why not quickly bury it, throw it in nearby creek, break it up....anything except leave it so it could still be used. she sent a snapchat as well as did a video and then audio recording....there would have been some degree of 'fiddling' which should have alerted someone of average intelligence to the fact she was using it to capture evidence

One theory is Libby was not holding the cellphone in front of her while she caught only a brief glimpse of the suspect on the bridge. Her grandmother indicated she might’ve been holding it close down by her side therefore the suspect didn’t notice.

LE obviously know what’s on the rest of the video but considering they’ve released only the 2 second looped and blurry video, that there’s nothing more or better makes sense to me. IIRC the suspect was about 60 feet away at that point, another reason for the lack of clarity of the photos (still frames)/video. Why Libby saw a reason to secretly capture the man on video has been a topic of speculation for the past four years.