Thank you so much for joining in, I keep thinking about Carnell and Katherine, more needs to be done to find their murderer, and possibly be charged with a hate crime, jmo.
)Is there a state or federal LE sourced list? The SPLC isn't at all a reliable source. MOO (Criticism only directed at the SPLC, not at all at you, Betty. You're aces in my book.
Is there a state or federal LE sourced list? The SPLC isn't at all a reliable source. MOO (Criticism only directed at the SPLC, not at all at you, Betty. You're aces in my book.
I don't know of any other source. Perhaps the FBI? I seriously doubt Ohio is tracking hate groups. Our state officials are more likely to be members.
ETA: I also know quite a few people who live in the area who say there are signs of those groups around. They post flyers, etc. JMO, this is probably the less likely of possible scenarios. Others more likely are someone who knew one or both of the victims personally and a robbery gone bad.
The Ohio Advisory Committee published a report to the US Commission on Civil Rights but it’s from the early 90’s.
Sherrod Brown tried to get the Federal Government to release the information they have, here’s the letter.
I don't know of any other source. Perhaps the FBI? I seriously doubt Ohio is tracking hate groups. Our state officials are more likely to be members.
ETA: I also know quite a few people who live in the area who say there are signs of those groups around. They post flyers, etc. JMO, this is probably the less likely of possible scenarios. Others more likely are someone who knew one or both of the victims personally and a robbery gone bad.
But if it was a hate crime, IMO, would mean it was a crime of opportunity and Kate and Nell just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If this was the case, I don't think it was as though someone went to the park, waiting to commit a crime (it's not a diverse enough area to sit and wait, IMO), but rather saw them arrive and found an opportunity. Maybe the person(s) was already there when they arrived or came by shortly after. Regarding a robbery gone bad - it's definitely been thought about, only nothing was stolen off either Nell or Kate nor was anything taken from their cars. It's just odd to think that someone would try to rob two people, in broad daylight, in a public area where other cars are parked and driving so closely. But I also remind myself that ANYONE capable of murder is behaving in ways I could never wrapped my head around, so...
Hate crime is an interesting theory. And as @everybodhi showed, it's not a pretty story in Ohio and seems to get paid very little mind... (and to your point, our state officials are more likely to be members!)
It's really a shame so little is seemingly being done about hate crimes in Ohio.
I just keep thinking that someone saw or heard something. IMO, if the perpetrator(s) arrived by car, I would have to think the gentleman who was already there would have seen or heard the call pull in or drive away. Only 6 cars or so can fit in the parking area, and since Kate and Nell drove separate, there would have only been a few available spots left. If they arrived on foot, they could have easily walked away, relatively undetected as a person visiting the park; however, the walking trail is actually across the main road and 20+ feet or so into the woods. So it would have had to be someone just walking along the side of the road/thru the grassy areas on the opposite side of the street, OR someone trying to cross the road during rush hour. I guess they could have jumped down the river bank and trudged along that area. It's maybe a 4ft drop near the bench where they were found from the ground into the river. Maybe even swam across and up the banks on the other side. But with the kayakers having come upon their bodies so quickly, I would think anyone trying to evade detection within the river walls would have been seen by them? This is why I think having those signs up are SO IMPORTANT - someone may have seen someone walking along the road (vs the path), or someone climbing out of the river bed, or trying to cross the road, etc. Maybe they were wearing something odd for the park or for June in Cleveland - someone running/walking fast in work clothes, wearing a hoodie in 85 degree weather, hiding his/her face, acting odd, etc. I just wish there was a way to better communicate to the public that any little tip, even if they don't think it's important, could be key!
Neither of the victims seem like people who would have enemies in their lives staking them out, trying to kill them. jmoRegarding a robbery gone bad - it's definitely been thought about, only nothing was stolen off either Nell or Kate nor was anything taken from their cars. It's just odd to think that someone would try to rob two people, in broad daylight, in a public area where other cars are parked and driving so closely. But I also remind myself that ANYONE capable of murder is behaving in ways I could never wrapped my head around, so...
Hate crime is an interesting theory. And as @everybodhi showed, it's not a pretty story in Ohio and seems to get paid very little mind... (and to your point, our state officials are more likely to be members!)
It's really a shame so little is seemingly being done about hate crimes in Ohio.
I just keep thinking that someone saw or heard something. IMO, if the perpetrator(s) arrived by car, I would have to think the gentleman who was already there would have seen or heard the call pull in or drive away. Only 6 cars or so can fit in the parking area, and since Kate and Nell drove separate, there would have only been a few available spots left. If they arrived on foot, they could have easily walked away, relatively undetected as a person visiting the park; however, the walking trail is actually across the main road and 20+ feet or so into the woods. So it would have had to be someone just walking along the side of the road/thru the grassy areas on the opposite side of the street, OR someone trying to cross the road during rush hour. I guess they could have jumped down the river bank and trudged along that area. It's maybe a 4ft drop near the bench where they were found from the ground into the river. Maybe even swam across and up the banks on the other side. But with the kayakers having come upon their bodies so quickly, I would think anyone trying to evade detection within the river walls would have been seen by them? This is why I think having those signs up are SO IMPORTANT - someone may have seen someone walking along the road (vs the path), or someone climbing out of the river bed, or trying to cross the road, etc. Maybe they were wearing something odd for the park or for June in Cleveland - someone running/walking fast in work clothes, wearing a hoodie in 85 degree weather, hiding his/her face, acting odd, etc. I just wish there was a way to better communicate to the public that any little tip, even if they don't think it's important, could be key!
I don't know of any other source. Perhaps the FBI? I seriously doubt Ohio is tracking hate groups. Our state officials are more likely to be members.
ETA: I also know quite a few people who live in the area who say there are signs of those groups around. They post flyers, etc. JMO, this is probably the less likely of possible scenarios. Others more likely are someone who knew one or both of the victims personally and a robbery gone bad.
) received by Fox News several months after the murders and was immediately turned over to FBI Fox News reported on some new evidence today!
Not sure if I should include a "trigger warning", but I know a few posters also knew Nell. It has parts of the kayaker's 911 call, police audio, and visual reenactment of what may have occurred. It was an unexpected gut-punch...
New video, clues revealed in Cleveland Metroparks murder mystery nearly two years later
Recap of the new information released:
Here's what can I make of the letter (if anyone does gets better details, please add/edit), verbatim (author's errors included):
- Police dash cam footage - clearly shows how busy park/area was at the time of the crime
- Anonymous letter (will try to transcribe what I can see on the flashes of the letter from the Fox News report below so you don't have to to do the "pause, read, play, pause, play, pause TOO FAR!, rewind, too far again, pause, read... " yourself
- Nell apparently made dinner plans with his family and was expected to be to his grandmother's house within the hour he was in the park. (I don't know the proximity of the park to his grandmother's house).
- Re-enactment of what potentially occurred, indicating the close-range nature of the attack
- Positions Kate and Nell were found in relation to the bench
"I have seen new reports that the killer or killers of Carnell Sledge and Kate Brown haven't been found. No suspects.(Then the screen flips to another part of the the letter):
Their killer was a woman. I don't know how she knew them or why she happened to be there that day.
She parked out of sight and walked to the bench where Carnell was sitting. Kate had walked closer to the water's edge to look at something.
To best describe the woman is to take Reba McIntire from the "Reba" Show. She best fits the description of the woman. Giver her the hair of "Reba's" daughter Kyra. Put on her a spanish olive green sweatshirt like a hoody, faided blue.... "
"...Kate joined Carnell and sat on the bench, getting up again and going away from the bench. None of my busness by were the two talking marriage? Don't believe this was the motive.
I hit a snag. I thought I had a name, but who said the name wasn't Carnell or Kate. It was a white man, sitting on the bench with sandy brown hair and glasses like Drew Carrey. He was looking behind the bench at the woman and he said "for God's sake Amy, put down the gun!"
But the more the woman was talked to, the more agitated and irated she got, until she had had enough and shot Carnell first."
This is all I could get from the news video.
So first, the park seemed SO crowded! Now, undoubtedly police presence likely brought over more walkers and lookers, but still seems like a lot of potential witnesses.
I was surprised to learn Nell had dinner plans. So what brought him to the park? Was he lured? Were they both? IMO, unlikely, but only because I don't believe the mutual friends (outside of family and close friends) was such that one person could lure them BOTH. Again, just MO.
Nell was a big support to Kate, especially when she was struggling with substance abuse, and played a role in her recovery. She had been 2 years sober, but I wouldn't doubt if, for example, Kate and rough day and called Nell, he'd make it a point to meet up and just make sure she was OK (perhaps before heading to dinner). Again, all MO.
As for this letter - aside from the validity, which we DO NOT know -
- The first thing that struck me was the tv show references - Reba and Drew Carey. Definitely older tv shows. I'll admit I'm not much of a sitcom watcher, and while I am familiar with both shows, it's a reference I'd never think to make (let alone recall Reba's daughter's name!). It was just an interesting way to describe the two people this person saw.
- The author claims the killer "parked out of sight and walked to the bench..." which makes sense to me, based on the seeming lack of evidence. And in a crowded park, "she" could have walked away and blended right in with the rest of the park goers.
- We know 3 shots were fired - that's a lot of shots to go "unnoticed" (basically unheard) by the park goers. And with the river right there, it might even echo. It's hard to believe neither the man in his car (doing paperwork - I originally said he was working on his computer) or the kayakers didn't heard a single shot (or anyone else near the area yet out of sightline at the time). Would a silencer muffle the sounds to the point of no one hearing anything?
- I was also struck by there being another male sitting on the bench when it happened. It's not a very large bench. It seems odd a complete stranger would sit down next to them without knowing them (although, he could have asked, I guess!). I could go on about this, but it's all speculation on a letter we don't even know is true...
There's a lot of speculation that could be made from this letter. And while I don't want to go down a rabbit hole, there are a few things in the letter that didn't totally surprise. However, since we don't know the validity, I'm honestly not sure it's appropriate to get into?
Regardless, I hope this renews interest in the case, maybe scares someone into talking. I just hope it means we're one step closer to finding answers!
Hi Amy! I know the Brown family really well.
I didn't know Nell (met him only a handful of times) well, but I have a lot of mutual acquaintances I didn't even know about until after the incident. I know he was a really amazing human..
I also think "Amy" needs to be taken with some skepticism since a.) we don't know the validity of the letter, and b.) Amy is a very common name. The person could have heard any number of similar names and simply filled it in with whatever he/she felt seemed to fit. We know witness memories are not always reliable. Off the top of my head, Annie, Allie, Lainy, Kami, etc. all could have been mis-heard (if it's even true!). IMO, this person could easily be late 30s+ based on their sitcom references. Maybe their hearing isn't perfect? Once I had kids, my hearing got very selective. When I hear "mommmmm," it sounds like "I NEEEEEEED a snack!"
