CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

[WINDSOR]

interesting. So would you suggest that KW is a potential defence witness?

The approach would be for the defence to create reasonable doubt; they would try and show that Barry was the only criminal.

The Defence would then call witnesses to prove that Barry had the means, opportunity and motive, that even the TPS and Media initially believed that it was a M/S. The defence would show how M/S is a very reasonable and likely explanation of what happened. The defence then might say their client(s) are innocent, and victims of a politically motivated 'witch-hunt' to save the Sherman legacy.

Heh, this sounds familiar doesn't it?

 

[MistyWaters]

The approach would be for the defence to create reasonable doubt; they would try and show that Barry was the only criminal.

The Defence would then call witnesses to prove that Barry had the means, opportunity and motive, that even the TPS and Media initially believed that it was a M/S. The defence would show how M/S is a very reasonable and likely explanation of what happened. The defence then might say their client(s) are innocent, and victims of a politically motivated 'witch-hunt' to save the Sherman legacy.

Heh, this sounds familiar doesn't it?

I wonder if the video of Barry murdering Honey ever arrived at CBC, the one KW claims he knows about? Bombshell video evidence of m/s in defence of the accused, I can almost imagine the headlines.

 

[casesensitive]

I wonder if the video of Barry murdering Honey ever arrived at CBC, the one KW claims he knows about? Bombshell video evidence of m/s in defence of the accused, I can almost imagine the headlines.

I recall that KW was told by the CBC that they had a video that caught a partial image of a man's face who looked like Barry, turning off the camera in the pool room. Regardless if this is true or not, that is all KW reported. He never claimed that there was a video of BS murdering HS.

Please be mindful of new and current members who haven't followed the case as long as we have, and won't go back hundreds of posts to catch up. You might not realize that your comments may be taken as fact, and not misinformation.

 

[MistyWaters]

I recall that KW was told by the CBC that they had a video that caught a partial image of a man's face who looked like Barry, turning off the camera in the pool room. Regardless if this is true or not, that is all KW reported. He never claimed that there was a video of BS murdering HS.

Please be mindful of new and current members who haven't followed the case as long as we have, and won't go back hundreds of posts to catch up. You might not realize that your comments may be taken as fact, and not misinformation.

It’s too late to change the narrative, aside from it included both audio and video - this is your post #941. I didn’t look back for the actual post but I trust your quote is correct.
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10


Kerry, regarding your statement:
"Ronna told me she was waiting on an audio tape of Barry killing Honey. Also, a vdo tape of a man covering his face moving a cctv camera at Old Colony, who looked a LOT like Barry!!!!"

Did you ever wonder how a CBC Fifth Estate producer could get her hands on audio and video from a crime scene? Why do you think she shared this information with you? Do you still believe her? I'm wondering if she said it just to see your reaction or something. Just curious since her claim sounds so unbelievable.

 

[casesensitive]

It’s too late to change the narrative, aside from it included both audio and video - this is your post #941. I didn’t look back for the actual post but I trust your quote is correct.
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10


Kerry, regarding your statement:
"Ronna told me she was waiting on an audio tape of Barry killing Honey. Also, a vdo tape of a man covering his face moving a cctv camera at Old Colony, who looked a LOT like Barry!!!!"

Did you ever wonder how a CBC Fifth Estate producer could get her hands on audio and video from a crime scene? Why do you think she shared this information with you? Do you still believe her? I'm wondering if she said it just to see your reaction or something. Just curious since her claim sounds so unbelievable.

I stand corrected. Misty your memory is way better than mine on this one. Kerry never did answered my questions noted above. I wonder how he would answer today. Was it a lie from KW or was it a lie from the CBC?

 

[MistyWaters]

I stand corrected. Misty your memory is way better than mine on this one. Kerry never did answered my questions noted above. I wonder how he would answer today. Was it a lie from KW or was it a lie from the CBC?

That is a very good question.

 

[WINDSOR]

If there was a video of Barry killing Honey, I would believe the TPS would have it by now, and that the Greenspan team would have been aware of it as well. If such a tape ever existed, showing Barry killing Honey, then the case would be closed, and all the speculation and judicial activities all the way up to the Supreme Court would be ended. Since the case is not closed and judicial activities are ongoing, I am pretty sure no such tape exists.

I also have to believe that either or both the TPS and the Greenspsn team followed up on this KW assertion.

Is Kerry lying, or did the CBC lie to Kerry? I am not aware that the CBC has ever made any comment about the existence of such a tape, and if the CBC were told that such a tape existed, I am sure they would have told either the TPS or Greenspan.

Since KW is a strong proponent of the M/S theory, even a rumor of such a tape, could bolster his position.

MOO

 

[dotr]

Although it would be very surprising if there was in fact a (pool area) video in somebody's possession, the video tapes made by Paul Bernardo, concealed in the ceiling and kept secret by a defense lawyer, comes to mind. fwiw, imo, speculation.
2000
Murray blasted for concealing tapes

 

[MistyWaters]

If there was a video of Barry killing Honey, I would believe the TPS would have it by now, and that the Greenspan team would have been aware of it as well. If such a tape ever existed, showing Barry killing Honey, then the case would be closed, and all the speculation and judicial activities all the way up to the Supreme Court would be ended. Since the case is not closed and judicial activities are ongoing, I am pretty sure no such tape exists.

I also have to believe that either or both the TPS and the Greenspsn team followed up on this KW assertion.

Is Kerry lying, or did the CBC lie to Kerry? I am not aware that the CBC has ever made any comment about the existence of such a tape, and if the CBC were told that such a tape existed, I am sure they would have told either the TPS or Greenspan.

Since KW is a strong proponent of the M/S theory, even a rumor of such a tape, could bolster his position.

MOO

Another possibility is the tapes exist but were fraudulently acted out to support a supposed m/s crime scene. If they entered the public realm through the media , how could LE prove they weren’t leaked by one of their own? I don’t think they could - the insinuation would be made TPS was trying to cover up a m/s for the family’s sake. But if the tapes were indeed sent to CBC and possibly other MSM, surely the killer didn’t expect they’d be broadcast to the public? No way, that would not happen in Canada IMO.

If CBC received tapes of someone who looked much like Barry murdering Honey, I’ve no doubt it’d be immediately turned over to TPS as possible evidence leading to the killer.

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

It’s too late to change the narrative, aside from it included both audio and video - this is your post #941. I didn’t look back for the actual post but I trust your quote is correct.
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10


Kerry, regarding your statement:
"Ronna told me she was waiting on an audio tape of Barry killing Honey. Also, a vdo tape of a man covering his face moving a cctv camera at Old Colony, who looked a LOT like Barry!!!!"

Did you ever wonder how a CBC Fifth Estate producer could get her hands on audio and video from a crime scene? Why do you think she shared this information with you? Do you still believe her? I'm wondering if she said it just to see your reaction or something. Just curious since her claim sounds so unbelievable.

If BS covered a camera by himself and despite that a video exists with the murder happening, it seems unlogical to me.

 

[dotr]

May 3 2021
Kevin Donovan, the Star’s chief investigative reporter, earns citation of merit from World Press Freedom Canada
''The Toronto Star’s chief investigative reporter, Kevin Donovan, has received recognition for his more than three-decade career reporting on wars and uncovering wrongdoings within institutions.

“I believe that the public, which pays for and supports these institutions, should have the right to look under the hood and kick the tires,” Donovan said. “It is a right protected by our laws, yet time and again we have to argue for the right to shine that spotlight.”

He recalled his work on the Barry and Honey Sherman murder investigation, which revealed ways the case had been mishandled by police investigators.
The well-known philanthropist couple were found strangled to death in the basement of their Toronto mansion in December 2017.''

“I have been to court every six months in the last three and a half years arguing to have hundreds of pages of search warrant documents released,” Donovan said. “Last December, my arguments prompted court to approve the release of quite a few documents which shone a spotlight on the case.”

 

[deugirtni]

From the video posted above, I wonder what secret deals he is talking about??

Over the last few years I made a particular effort to try and unseal court documents on behalf of The Toronto Star. I did this last year in the case of an Ontario Provincial Police investigation and also in the high profile murder probe of Barry and Honey Sherman.

Rulings in these cases have provided information on secret deals made in the Sherman investigation that hindered the probe. We also found proof that the Toronto police completely missed certain elements of the Sherman crime scene for six weeks and misread what the case was all about.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

From the video posted above, I wonder what secret deals he is talking about??

Over the last few years I made a particular effort to try and unseal court documents on behalf of The Toronto Star. I did this last year in the case of an Ontario Provincial Police investigation and also in the high profile murder probe of Barry and Honey Sherman.

Rulings in these cases have provided information on secret deals made in the Sherman investigation that hindered the probe. We also found proof that the Toronto police completely missed certain elements of the Sherman crime scene for six weeks and misread what the case was all about.

I don’t know, but maybe he was referring to this (?):


“Lawyers for Ontario, Apotex struck deal on what detectives could access in Sherman murder investigation. It took one month
By Kevin DonovanChief Investigative Reporter
Thu., Nov. 26, 2020timer7 min. read
You are a homicide detective working one of the most sensational cases in recent history. Billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman, found dead in their basement swimming pool room, staged in a macabre pose. Barry’s BlackBerry is discovered nearby, and his office computer and cluttered desk are surely awash with clues.

But hold on. Due to a protocol hammered out by government lawyers and counsel for the late Barry Sherman’s firm Apotex, you cannot look at any of this information until lawyers for the generic drug giant decide what police can and cannot see due to legal privilege concerns.

Police were told that if they spotted something — perhaps a sticky note on Sherman’s desk, a cancelled appointment in his calendar, the time of his last phone call — they were forbidden to act on the information until the lawyers give the green light.”

Paywalled link:
Lawyers for Ontario, Apotex struck deal on what detectives could access in Sherman murder investigation. It took one month

Same article from Outline:
Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

 

[deugirtni]

I don’t know, but maybe he was referring to this (?):


“Lawyers for Ontario, Apotex struck deal on what detectives could access in Sherman murder investigation. It took one month
By Kevin DonovanChief Investigative Reporter
Thu., Nov. 26, 2020timer7 min. read
You are a homicide detective working one of the most sensational cases in recent history. Billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman, found dead in their basement swimming pool room, staged in a macabre pose. Barry’s BlackBerry is discovered nearby, and his office computer and cluttered desk are surely awash with clues.

But hold on. Due to a protocol hammered out by government lawyers and counsel for the late Barry Sherman’s firm Apotex, you cannot look at any of this information until lawyers for the generic drug giant decide what police can and cannot see due to legal privilege concerns.

Police were told that if they spotted something — perhaps a sticky note on Sherman’s desk, a cancelled appointment in his calendar, the time of his last phone call — they were forbidden to act on the information until the lawyers give the green light.”

Paywalled link:
Lawyers for Ontario, Apotex struck deal on what detectives could access in Sherman murder investigation. It took one month

Same article from Outline:
Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

Thank you Lexi, you're right! Then I wonder why it might seem so bizarre that TPS did not make their double homicide determination until 6 weeks later.. if it took a MONTH to even get access to the stuff they should've had access to from the beginning? I don't think 'we' (as in the public) can find fault with TPS, seems their hands were pretty tied. Seems like that may have been rather quick, all considering. imo.

 

[WINDSOR]

It is my understanding when Barry was alive, he was the real power at Apotex. He controlled everything. When he died, who had the power then? Somebody had to decide at what level and how Apotex was going to 'work' with the TPS. It seems the relationship was much more adversarial than the public would expect, and the resultant 'deals' and arrangements between Apotex and the TPS regarding the investigation, limited the TPS in some ways.

Was it Jack Kay, or JS, or someone else who decided to play hardball with the TPS?

 

[MistyWaters]

It is my understanding when Barry was alive, he was the real power at Apotex. He controlled everything. When he died, who had the power then? Somebody had to decide at what level and how Apotex was going to 'work' with the TPS. It seems the relationship was much more adversarial than the public would expect, and the resultant 'deals' and arrangements between Apotex and the TPS regarding the investigation, limited the TPS in some ways.

Was it Jack Kay, or JS, or someone else who decided to play hardball with the TPS?

I think it’s unfair to refer to this as playing hardball. Every company is obligated to protect the confidentiality of their clients. If they don’t they can be sued.

I’m certain TPS is well aware of that fact and anticipated Apotex lawyers to be involved in negotiating the terms of the search warrant due to privacy legislation. This is a routine matter of “nothing to see here”....other than I notice KD has chosen to continue to ignore the fact these courtroom proceedings disprove his continued claim that TPS only focused on the murder of HS for the first six weeks.

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

I don’t know, but maybe he was referring to this (?):


“Lawyers for Ontario, Apotex struck deal on what detectives could access in Sherman murder investigation. It took one month
By Kevin DonovanChief Investigative Reporter
Thu., Nov. 26, 2020timer7 min. read
You are a homicide detective working one of the most sensational cases in recent history. Billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman, found dead in their basement swimming pool room, staged in a macabre pose. Barry’s BlackBerry is discovered nearby, and his office computer and cluttered desk are surely awash with clues.

But hold on. Due to a protocol hammered out by government lawyers and counsel for the late Barry Sherman’s firm Apotex, you cannot look at any of this information until lawyers for the generic drug giant decide what police can and cannot see due to legal privilege concerns.

Police were told that if they spotted something — perhaps a sticky note on Sherman’s desk, a cancelled appointment in his calendar, the time of his last phone call — they were forbidden to act on the information until the lawyers give the green light.”

Paywalled link:
Lawyers for Ontario, Apotex struck deal on what detectives could access in Sherman murder investigation. It took one month

Same article from Outline:
Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

What if the government was more interested in holding back information than the Apotex lawyers? Wasn't there an ongoing lawsuit (at least one, if not more)?

 

[WINDSOR]

MistyWaters said "Every company is obligated to protect the confidentiality of their clients. If they don’t they can be sued."

It is my understanding that when police are doing a murder investigation, the privacy laws are some what different. For example, a retailer sells a weapon that is then later used in a crime. Are you implying that the retailer can be sued if he gives the name of the buyer to the police?

Secondly in this case I feel Apotex was not interested in protecting clients but itself and possibly its employees.
Sometimes, some companies involved in some activities (price fixing, kick-backs, bribery, tax evasion, restraint of trade, and other white collar crimes) will be very reluctant to have authorities access their records. The objections they have to providing access are not really based on privacy concerns of clients and protection of intellectual property.

 

[MistyWaters]

MistyWaters said "Every company is obligated to protect the confidentiality of their clients. If they don’t they can be sued."

It is my understanding that when police are doing a murder investigation, the privacy laws are some what different. For example, a retailer sells a weapon that is then later used in a crime. Are you implying that the retailer can be sued if he gives the name of the buyer to the police?

Secondly in this case I feel Apotex was not interested in protecting clients but itself and possibly its employees.
Sometimes, some companies involved in some activities (price fixing, kick-backs, bribery, tax evasion, restraint of trade, and other white collar crimes) will be very reluctant to have authorities access their records. The objections they have to providing access are not really based on privacy concerns of clients and protection of intellectual property.

A retailer selling a specific gun and LE issuing a warrant to seek records in order to determine who the gun was sold to - is far different than LE accessing records of everyone who bought guns since the first day the store opened.

I see nothing suspicious about Apotex lawyers protecting agreements and patents. We don’t know what specifically was agreed upon between the two parties but as it was resolved within a month, it doesn’t appear to have been contentious considering the Court also authorizes the final approval for LE to proceed.

There’s absolutely no proof Barry held documents in his office that would’ve proved his company was involved with corporate crime so there’s really no point in discussing it IMO.

 

[WINDSOR]

A retailer selling a specific gun and LE issuing a warrant to seek records in order to determine who the gun was sold to - is far different than LE accessing records of everyone who bought guns since the first day the store opened.

I see nothing suspicious about Apotex lawyers protecting agreements and patents. We don’t know what specifically was agreed upon between the two parties but as it was resolved within a month, it doesn’t appear to have been contentious considering the Court also authorizes the final approval for LE to proceed.

There’s absolutely no proof Barry held documents in his office that would’ve proved his company was involved with corporate crime so there’s really no point in discussing it IMO.

Protecting agreements and patents is done everyday in business, through the signing of non-disclosure agreements. To me the situation smacks of a whole different level of secrecy on the part of Apotex. Barry's and Apotex's business history of often pushing the limits of legality in some situations, makes one wonder what Apotex wanted to hide.

Here are a some MSM reports you might find illuminating, I think they offer proof of Apotex's past activities. On case was settled after Barry had died.
Generic Pharmaceutical Company Admits to Fixing Price of Widely Used Cholesterol Medication
Canadians kept in dark about defective drugs
$442 Million Fine Against Apotex for Plavix® Patent Infringement