GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #61

[ohioexpat63]

Supposedly, Jake wasn't on LEs radar at the time. The daughter's family was just murdered and, probably, in the court's view, supported by other agencies, Jake brought some stability to the child. As the known father, and having physical custody of the daughter, I can see the view of the court.

Now, in hindsight, it is easy to say wrong call. As far as we know, no one at the time objected to JWs and HRs relationship. Even after the birth of the child no one raised the alarm, at least not legally. JMO.

It is easy to second guess but if Jake was innocent of the murders would this conversation be happening?

 

[Cool Cats]

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I'm sure the judge was trying to come up with what he thought was best for the child. She'd lost her entire close maternal family in the mass murder and the W's weren't on the radar yet.

I'm not a judge, but life has taught me to really look at a person's character. If someone commits a felony (in this case statutory rape), I question what other felonies are they capable of committing. Some criminals are very diversified, and they can go from con artist, to rapist to murderer in the blink of an eye. All JMO.

Yup! And that fits Jake Wagner to a Tee.

Crimes in years before his arrest, after his arrest, and then the arrest itself, the indictments were loaded with crimes. I can't remember how many crimes.

Tampering with evidence.
Criminal conspiracy.
Burglary.
Fraud.
Interception of wire communications.
Murder.
Inappropriate relations with under aged girl.

There might be some I missed. Unlawful use of property?

 

[Cool Cats]

Supposedly, Jake wasn't on LEs radar at the time. The daughter's family was just murdered and, probably, in the court's view, supported by other agencies, Jake brought some stability to the child. As the known father, and having physical custody of the daughter, I can see the view of the court.

Now, in hindsight, it is easy to say wrong call. As far as we know, no one at the time objected to JWs and HRs relationship. Even after the birth of the child no one raised the alarm, at least not legally. JMO.

It is easy to second guess but if Jake was innocent of the murders would this conversation be happening?

NO.....I definitely agree with everything you said. Even FW said she saw them as married, it was accepted by their families, good point.

No criminal complaints filed about it. Not everyone gets arrested.

 

[Lonicera]

Don't understand ( sorry I am French) you are trying to remove all sense of responsibility for the killer ? From France, I think the LE made a good job.
Very soon , after the murders, the killers were the Wagner for me and others.
I remember all the people who were shamming the Rhoden's family and the Manley's.
In this case , we can't forget ...

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I ran across articles on this subject and wanted to share. It sure puts a different light on the left/right handed shooter. MOO

"Dominant Eye: What It Means and How to Tell Which Eye Is Dominant" Dominant Eye: What It Means and How to Tell Which Eye Is Dominant

I'm not sure if this makes a difference or if/how it applies here, but many opposite eye dominant shooters are taught to aim with both eyes open.

Thank you for sharing the article. I always find I learn something new, usually many things, everyday on the threads I follow.

 

[ohioexpat63]

NO.....I definitely agree with everything you said. Even FW said she saw them as married, it was accepted by their families, good point.

No criminal complaints filed about it. Not everyone gets arrested.

Is there a gatekeeper in this scenario? A 13 yr old in a relationship with an 18yr and going on to produce a child a couple years later. Both parent seemingly agree with the arrangement. At the time, no one was alleging abuse, at least openly. At what point does an adult say this isnt cool. We ain't having this up in here.

With all the speculation about drug business, pill running, ect...this case boiled down to a good old fashioned family dispute over jealousy and custody.jmo

I agree, far few do not get arrested and stand trial because of whatever reason....embarrassing for victim,

 

[molly1255]

Yup! And that fits Jake Wagner to a Tee.
ef
Crimes in years before his arrest, after his arrest, and then the arrest itself, the indictments were loaded with crimes. I can't remember how many crimes.

Tampering with evidence.
Criminal conspiracy.
Burglary.
Fraud.
Interception of wire communications.
Murder.
Inappropriate relations with under aged girl.

There might be some I missed. Unlawful use of property?

JMO, I imagine there is more that either hasn't been discovered or LE doesn't have enough proof to issue an indictment. His fraudulent fundraising campaign (to help pay his legal expenses to get custody), I don't believe has ever been addressed legally. Another incident of fraud. I don't think the campaign resulted in much money being donated, but he was attempting to defraud others into buying into his pity play, when he was not a victim but rather, he was the perpetrator. He was trying to profit from the murders.

Without knowing anyone involved, I'm not sure if DR and CR Sr. were ok with the relationship, or if they were afraid that if they tried to end it or slow it down, it might blow up in their faces. It seems the families were friends at the time, so perhaps DR and CR Sr. trusted that HR would be treated well.

I'm sure the W's were delighted with the arrangement. It made entitled JW very happy to have an underage girl in his bed that he could groom and control and HR became the host for a child for the W's. As HR grew a little older, she realized she was being abused and manipulated and she bolted. It appears her family was supportive of her decision to end the relationship and I think they fully realized the extreme damage that had been done to HR because of that relationship. I think her family did their best to try to mitigate the damage done to HR and they tried their best to protect her from JW and the W's. But by the time of the murders, it was clearly outside of their ability to control.

JMO, the laws that are intended to protect underage individuals from predators are based in logic and reality. This case is the most extreme example of the kind of damage that can be caused, but there are many other victims who were underage whose lives have been completely destroyed by someone who was older who took advantage of their innocence and their trust in the worst way possible.

All JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Don't understand ( sorry I am French) you are trying to remove all sense of responsibility for the killer ? From France, I think the LE made a good job.
Very soon , after the murders, the killers were the Wagner for me and others.
I remember all the people who were shamming the Rhoden's family and the Manley's.
In this case , we can't forget ...

BBM

If your referring to my post. If not, please ignore.

He wasn't a killer at that time, that came later. And the families allowed their relationship.

Hanna and Jake.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

BBM

If your referring to my post. If not, please ignore.

He wasn't a killer at that time, that came later. And the families allowed their relationship.

Hanna and Jake.

You’re right CC
In one of the old Facebook post it spoke about JW and HR going with the rest of the Wagners to Florida when she was 13,the Rhodens thought they could trust AW to make sure nothing happened between JW and HR while they were on vacation, JMO
That was when it was said they got the wedding ring tattoo on their fingers to make a promise to each other, JMO

 

[Lonicera]

BBM

If your referring to my post. If not, please ignore.

He wasn't a killer at that time, that came later. And the families allowed their relationship.

Hanna and Jake.

Know that. Think that many not detected the power of wealth among poor people . It was a trap . HR was very pretty .

 

[molly1255]

Know that. Think that many not detected the power of wealth among poor people . It was a trap . HR was very pretty .

You have very accurately summed up my own thoughts on this.

 

[molly1255]

You’re right CC
In one of the old Facebook post it spoke about JW and HR going with the rest of the Wagners to Florida when she was 13,the Rhodens thought they could trust AW to make sure nothing happened between JW and HR while they were on vacation, JMO
That was when it was said they got the wedding ring tattoo on their fingers to make a promise to each other, JMO

True. I don't think the R's had any idea of just how far AW would go in order to make sure that JW got exactly what he wanted.

 

[Lonicera]

True. I don't think the R's had any idea of just how far AW would go in order to make sure that JW got exactly what he wanted.

Molly , I think like you . But , it was the precedent case with the eldest son ... I have 4 children (all grown up today) and never in my mind I wanted to keep my grandchildren for me . Don't understand . I think there is domination in this case : from the beginnings, the Wagner were very contemptuous of the Rhoden's and the Manley 's.

 

[molly1255]

Molly , I think like you . But , it was the precedent case with the eldest son ... I have 4 children (all grown up today) and never in my mind I wanted to keep my grandchildren for me . Don't understand . I think there is domination in this case : from the beginnings, the Wagner were very contemptuous of the Rhoden's and the Manley 's.

Lonicera, I agree. What happened with the child from the oldest son was very unusual. I agree about the domination and also the contempt the W's felt toward the R's and M's. I cannot imagine the exaggerated sense of entitlement and the extreme level of contempt it would take to be able to murder eight members of a family just so you could get what you wanted for incredibly selfish, narcissistic reasons. That is NOT normal.

I, too, suspected the W's fairly early on. JW quickly got custody. We didn't know that custody and control was the apparent motive at the time, but in the one interview JW gave, before they became official suspects, JW seemed way too glib to me and he made sure to promote his online fundraiser in the interview. He screwed up in that interview, too, and he put himself at DR's home around 10 PM that night to pick up the child and said something to the effect "I reckon we just missed it by hours". His mother later made a correction to his statement. Huge red flag. The talk of a possible cartel never added up to me as a real possibility and from where I sat, the Manley's were victims who had no reason to murder their family members. They were victimized over and over.

After the arrests, Sheriff Reader made a statement about "all the lies they told", meaning the W's. I'd really like to know about the lies, because in my opinion, those lies must have been very carefully crafted and were believable enough to keep LE from focusing on the W's for a long time when the W's were the only ones who gained from the murders.

All JMO.

 

[Betty P]

Supposedly, Jake wasn't on LEs radar at the time. The daughter's family was just murdered and, probably, in the court's view, supported by other agencies, Jake brought some stability to the child. As the known father, and having physical custody of the daughter, I can see the view of the court.

Now, in hindsight, it is easy to say wrong call. As far as we know, no one at the time objected to JWs and HRs relationship. Even after the birth of the child no one raised the alarm, at least not legally. JMO.

It is easy to second guess but if Jake was innocent of the murders would this conversation be happening?

Yeah, because its so rare for men to kill their partners during a custody battle, especially after the partner left the killer father because he beat her up. I mean, why should they believe the victim's family and friends who witnessed the DV and threats? Better to point the finger at the family and friends.

It sounds like Charlie Reader and AC figured this out pretty quickly (AC prosecuted DV cases for 15 years), but it was DeWine, Junk and BCI who kept going with the drug murder theories.

 

[ohioexpat63]

I do believe the AG overplayed the marijuana grow. He created the animosity within the community against the Rhoden's. The Manley's and Rhoden's were vilified and all but accused by the locals, LE and some news reporters as being major players in the drug world. They wasted resources running down the wrong rabbit hole. Besides a few marijuana plants there isnt any evidence the Rhodens dealt.any drugs. JMO

Now, I do agree with the DV portion. At what point in the investigation was this brought to LEs attention? Who said what and when? Anyway, i always enjoy reading others point of view.

 

[molly1255]

Yeah, because its so rare for men to kill their partners during a custody battle, especially after the partner left the killer father because he beat her up. I mean, why should they believe the victim's family and friends who witnessed the DV and threats? Better to point the finger at the family and friends.

It sounds like Charlie Reader and AC figured this out pretty quickly (AC prosecuted DV cases for 15 years), but it was DeWine, Junk and BCI who kept going with the drug murder theories.

Very well stated Betty!

 

[Betty P]

Very well stated Betty!

I admit I was on the "drug dealers or criminal gang as killers" bandwagon for a long time, but only because I couldn't fathom a bunch of locals with no military training or history of committing murders could plan and execute such a detailed, extensive cold-blooded massacre in such a short period of time, without making big mistakes, talking, leaving a lot of evidence or exposing themselves to witnesses.

I was wrong, though I knew the custody fight was also a good theory. I knew the Rhodens probably didn't have much more than a bunch of small plants as a grow op and weren't making a lot of money from it. I was shocked at how people with no experience in doing that kind of thing can purchase the "tools" they need, make the plans and carry out a mass execution in multiple locations without getting caught. Apparently, things have changed in this world.

 

[ohioexpat63]

I was on the road rage lady and a connection with motorcycle gangs. Then I just stopped theorizing. Nothing made sense because LE was tight lip about any and all evidence. No matter what was released it led to more speculation and theories. Anyway, I was wrong more than I was right. Jmo

 

[molly1255]

I admit I was on the "drug dealers or criminal gang as killers" bandwagon for a long time, but only because I couldn't fathom a bunch of locals with no military training or history of committing murders could plan and execute such a detailed, extensive cold-blooded massacre in such a short period of time, without making big mistakes, talking, leaving a lot of evidence or exposing themselves to witnesses.

I was wrong, though I knew the custody fight was also a good theory. I knew the Rhodens probably didn't have much more than a bunch of small plants as a grow op and weren't making a lot of money from it. I was shocked at how people with no experience in doing that kind of thing can purchase the "tools" they need, make the plans and carry out a mass execution in multiple locations without getting caught. Apparently, things have changed in this world.

I remember the early days. We were all over the place on this forum and were reacting to what was being reported in the media, and it was hard to fathom just who could be so sophisticated to carry out this kind of crime - and why someone would do this.

I'll never forget this case. It's not over yet and I will continue to follow. I pray that the end result is justice for the victims and their families. I'm starting to feel like that is really going to happen.