OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 Apr 2006 #5

[MerryB]

I'm here to solve the case. I don't even think in terms of wishing for a particular outcome. I only care about analyzing the evidence.

Then you have to look at all the evidence, not just the things you feel support the construction theory.

 

[MerryB]

Have you found anything so far suggesting he even got out of the Gateway building that night? Donno what to make of Hurst’s comment that he probably got exited out. What does it even mean .

The phone data indicates he got out of the building IMO. His phone was on around 1:55 when Brightan put her number in. It was either turned off or out of service (in the elevator? Construction area?) when Meredith called at 2:01. Then it was on & pinging once he exited (Hurst says last ping was at 2:11).

 

[Old Mozez]

The phone data indicates he got out of the building IMO. His phone was on around 1:55 when Brightan put her number in. It was either turned off or out of service (in the elevator? Construction area?) when Meredith called at 2:01. Then it was on & pinging once he exited (Hurst says last ping was at 2:11).

The phone lost all connectivity to the outside at 2.11. The first pings they got were on Monday (unspecified time?) according to Hurst, no? Where the towers with strongest signal were on the West side (unspec) and Kenny Road / Lane Avenue.

 

[Old Mozez]

Then you have to look at all the evidence, not just the things you feel support the construction theory.

Unfair comment IMO, I've seen posts where @Ozoner has contemplated scenarios like Brian ending up in bodies of water and/or ending up in waste containers, amongst else. The construction area scenario is by far the most likely scenario as there is no evidence suggesting Brian got out of the building. At least none that I've found at least. I'm still all ears of course.

 

[MerryB]

The phone lost all connectivity to the outside at 2.11. The first pings they got were on Monday (unspecified time?) according to Hurst, no? Where the towers with strongest signal were on the West side (unspec) and Kenny Road / Lane Avenue.

Yes, the phone was still communicating until 2:11 AM Saturday 4/1.
CPD started pinging Brian’s phone on Monday 4/3 and that’s when they got the pings showing movement in a westward direction.
Hurst says they got “a few pings” after those as well, but doesn’t elaborate.

 

[Old Mozez]

Yes, the phone was still communicating until 2:11 AM Saturday 4/1.
CPD started pinging Brian’s phone on Monday 4/3 and that’s when they got the pings showing movement in a westward direction.
Hurst says they got “a few pings” after those as well, but doesn’t elaborate.

Thing is , so in one sentence Hurst mentions that they tried to ping the phone, and it replies with request to data if the phone is charged and turned on. Despite Brian's phone being "turned off" or "not communicating" they still got these pings. Which was what made'em all confused. I'm not positive we've got clear and resounding evidence in this matter. It's shady at best.

A deeper look into it, as suggested by @Looking4Brian is plausable and beneficial.

 

[Looking4Brian]

Have you found anything so far suggesting he even got out of the Gateway building that night? Donno what to make of Hurst’s comment that he probably got exited out. What does it even mean .

I’m not sure what John’s comment meant. I believe he was going to say got out and changed it. From everyone I have spoke with (CPD, The Shaffer Family, The private investigator, etc.) there is absolutely zero evidence that Brian is still in the building. None of these people believe Brian is still in the building. 2 sets of dogs were taken in by CPD. The building was gone through from top to bottom. Dirt piles were removed, electrical panels were removed, the sewer was even checked. After CPD was finished with their search, Randy Shaffer took his own set of search dogs in to look for Brian. The CPD dogs appeared to pick up Brian’s scent behind the Wendy’s. The dogs then followed the scent down to an abandoned factory. The scent was lost at the factory. Now we know dogs aren’t reliable, but this wasn’t one set of dogs. With the searches done, the recent renovation of UTS, and the dogs I’m inclined to believe Brian made it out of the building whether he was alive or deceased. His cell phone pings point to that as well. Although it is all circumstantial evidence, there is enough there to convince every investigator that Brian got out of that building.

 

[itsrak]

I’m not sure what John’s comment meant. I believe he was going to say got out and changed it. From everyone I have spoke with (CPD, The Shaffer Family, The private investigator, etc.) there is absolutely zero evidence that Brian is still in the building. None of these people believe Brian is still in the building. 2 sets of dogs were taken in by CPD. The building was gone through from top to bottom. Dirt piles were removed, electrical panels were removed, the sewer was even checked. After CPD was finished with their search, Randy Shaffer took his own set of search dogs in to look for Brian. The CPD dogs appeared to pick up Brian’s scent behind the Wendy’s. The dogs then followed the scent down to an abandoned factory. The scent was lost at the factory. Now we know dogs aren’t reliable, but this wasn’t one set of dogs. With the searches done, the recent renovation of UTS, and the dogs I’m inclined to believe Brian made it out of the building whether he was alive or deceased. His cell phone pings point to that as well. Although it is all circumstantial evidence, there is enough there to convince every investigator that Brian got out of that building.

Everyone: Brian isn't in the building. No way.
Me: Must mean Brian is likely still in the building. There isn't a shred of evidence he ever made it out. The construction area just feet from where Brian was last seen was completely dug up at the time. Then Brian disappears. No trace of him outside the building. Ever. They should have done some digging. Some serious digging. They didn't. They blew it. Brian's dad had the right idea in duplicating LE's use of dogs. I wonder if Randy Shaffer also wanted to do some digging.

 

[Old Mozez]

I’m not sure what John’s comment meant. I believe he was going to say got out and changed it. From everyone I have spoke with (CPD, The Shaffer Family, The private investigator, etc.) there is absolutely zero evidence that Brian is still in the building. None of these people believe Brian is still in the building. 2 sets of dogs were taken in by CPD. The building was gone through from top to bottom. Dirt piles were removed, electrical panels were removed, the sewer was even checked. After CPD was finished with their search, Randy Shaffer took his own set of search dogs in to look for Brian. The CPD dogs appeared to pick up Brian’s scent behind the Wendy’s. The dogs then followed the scent down to an abandoned factory. The scent was lost at the factory. Now we know dogs aren’t reliable, but this wasn’t one set of dogs. With the searches done, the recent renovation of UTS, and the dogs I’m inclined to believe Brian made it out of the building whether he was alive or deceased. His cell phone pings point to that as well. Although it is all circumstantial evidence, there is enough there to convince every investigator that Brian got out of that building.

You're the best foot soldier Brian's got. But "the Brian got out side" has had 15 years of possibility to explain what happened. Still, niddeli doo and zippedi dah. "The rest of us" then what 2 days of searching the complex and then Randy going in for a couple days with his canines? To me, the zero evidence he's still in the building still outweighs the circumstantial leads you mentioned by the largest of margins.

 

[Looking4Brian]

Everyone: Brian isn't in the building. No way.
Me: Must mean Brian is likely still in the building. There isn't a shred of evidence he ever made it out. The construction area just feet from where Brian was last seen was completely dug up at the time. Then Brian disappears. No trace of him outside the building. Ever. They should have done some digging. Some serious digging. They didn't. They blew it. Brian's dad had the right idea in duplicating LE's use of dogs. I wonder if Randy Shaffer also wanted to do some digging.

Of course I didn’t speak to Randy, but I have communicated with Derek and His wife, as well as Don Corbett who spent a lot of time with Randy. By all accounts, Randy was determined to find answers so he had his own investigation going. Randy believed as others did, that Brian was not in the building. He did not believe that Brian walked away from his life though. Randy definitely thought foul play was involved. Just not at UTS.

 

[MerryB]

Everyone: Brian isn't in the building. No way.
Me: Must mean Brian is likely still in the building. There isn't a shred of evidence he ever made it out. The construction area just feet from where Brian was last seen was completely dug up at the time. Then Brian disappears. No trace of him outside the building. Ever. They should have done some digging. Some serious digging. They didn't. They blew it. Brian's dad had the right idea in duplicating LE's use of dogs. I wonder if Randy Shaffer also wanted to do some digging.

IMO one of the biggest disadvantages CPD did for this investigation was to make it initially sound like there was no other way out of the Ugly Tuna other than the main entrance or the construction exit. I’m sure they had their reasons at the time, but people heard this, latched onto it, and just can’t get past it. Investigators have since clarified that there were in fact various other exits, but I feel like this is still not widely known. Many of the YouTube videos and podcasts out there that are not well-researched still focus on this misinformation.

As someone who was familiar with the bar at the time of Brian’s disappearance, I can tell you that patrons and employees regularly exited out of the building other ways. When walking into the bar, there was an emergency exit to the right. That door was often propped open, and although an employee usually sat nearby, people stepped out to smoke or use the phone or even exit down the stairs and out into the courtyard. Hurst has confirmed that the camera on this door had been overridden, so there is no surveillance of this exit on the night Brian disappeared.

In addition to that exit, there were doors in the hallway near the top of the escalator where Brian is last seen on CCTV. Those led to a hallway where there was an elevator as well as a stairwell. Yes, he could have taken either one down to the construction exit. But there were other options as well, including a service exit (which the bands and employees used) and the Mad Mex exit. There was a camera on the service exit, but that’s it.

Add to that the fact that no construction took place over the weekend. So, if Brian was injured or killed in the construction area in the early morning hours of Saturday 4/1, no one would have been working in that area until Monday 4/3. Brian had already been reported missing & CPD was investigating that area by that time.

The construction area was very small, and while there was a dirt floor, I do not believe it was as treacherous as some imagine. Hurst clarifies that a bit in the more recent interview on Kelly’s Dead or Alive podcast, and the True Crime Garage guys address that in their most recent update on this case as well. I know it was initially made to sound like there was no way one could navigate through there, but that is just not the case IMO.

Also, look at the timeline. Brian is seen on CCTV at 1:55 talking to Amber & Brightan at the top of the escalators. We know from Brightan’s interview with Kelly that after moving out of frame, Brian stayed and spoke with Amber while she used the restroom. When she returned several minutes later, she put her number in his phone before saying goodbye. That would be 1:58/1:59 at least. Clint & Meredith exit the bar at 2:00 and don’t see Brian. That only gives him a minute or two to disappear as they headed toward the exit. Clint claims to have seen Brian re-enter the bar before losing sight of him. If that’s true, the emergency exit was just to the right of the entrance, which would be closest to Brian if he saw Clint & Meredith upon re-entering & wanted to quickly dodge them as they proceeded towards him.

The dogs picked up Brian’s scent at Wendy’s, which would’ve been the direction he would’ve walked if heading home. Wendy’s parking lot was behind High St and there was no surveillance in that direction.

Finally, as mentioned earlier, Brian’s phone was off or out of service briefly when Meredith called him at 2:01 AM, but then was actively communicating with towers until 2:11 AM on 4/1. It began communicating again once CPD put a pinging service on it on Monday 4/3 and continued to do so for a period of time, indicating it was powered on.

As investigators have told Kelly, if we are ever going to find Brian, we have to get out of that building, because Brian did.

MOO

 

[Ozoner]

IMO one of the biggest disadvantages CPD did for this investigation was to make it initially sound like there was no other way out of the Ugly Tuna other than the main entrance or the construction exit. I’m sure they had their reasons at the time, but people heard this, latched onto it, and just can’t get past it. Investigators have since clarified that there were in fact various other exits, but I feel like this is still not widely known. Many of the YouTube videos and podcasts out there that are not well-researched still focus on this misinformation.

As someone who was familiar with the bar at the time of Brian’s disappearance, I can tell you that patrons and employees regularly exited out of the building other ways. When walking into the bar, there was an emergency exit to the right. That door was often propped open, and although an employee usually sat nearby, people stepped out to smoke or use the phone or even exit down the stairs and out into the courtyard. Hurst has confirmed that the camera on this door had been overridden, so there is no surveillance of this exit on the night Brian disappeared.

In addition to that exit, there were doors in the hallway near the top of the escalator where Brian is last seen on CCTV. Those led to a hallway where there was an elevator as well as a stairwell. Yes, he could have taken either one down to the construction exit. But there were other options as well, including a service exit (which the bands and employees used) and the Mad Mex exit. There was a camera on the service exit, but that’s it.

Add to that the fact that no construction took place over the weekend. So, if Brian was injured or killed in the construction area in the early morning hours of Saturday 4/1, no one would have been working in that area until Monday 4/3. Brian had already been reported missing & CPD was investigating that area by that time.

The construction area was very small, and while there was a dirt floor, I do not believe it was as treacherous as some imagine. Hurst clarifies that a bit in the more recent interview on Kelly’s Dead or Alive podcast, and the True Crime Garage guys address that in their most recent update on this case as well. I know it was initially made to sound like there was no way one could navigate through there, but that is just not the case IMO.

Also, look at the timeline. Brian is seen on CCTV at 1:55 talking to Amber & Brightan at the top of the escalators. We know from Brightan’s interview with Kelly that after moving out of frame, Brian stayed and spoke with Amber while she used the restroom. When she returned several minutes later, she put her number in his phone before saying goodbye. That would be 1:58/1:59 at least. Clint & Meredith exit the bar at 2:00 and don’t see Brian. That only gives him a minute or two to disappear as they headed toward the exit. Clint claims to have seen Brian re-enter the bar before losing sight of him. If that’s true, the emergency exit was just to the right of the entrance, which would be closest to Brian if he saw Clint & Meredith upon re-entering & wanted to quickly dodge them as they proceeded towards him.

The dogs picked up Brian’s scent at Wendy’s, which would’ve been the direction he would’ve walked if heading home. Wendy’s parking lot was behind High St and there was no surveillance in that direction.

Finally, as mentioned earlier, Brian’s phone was off or out of service briefly when Meredith called him at 2:01 AM, but then was actively communicating with towers until 2:11 AM on 4/1. It began communicating again once CPD put a pinging service on it on Monday 4/3 and continued to do so for a period of time, indicating it was powered on.

As investigators have told Kelly, if we are ever going to find Brian, we have to get out of that building, because Brian did.

MOO

Everyone here understands that there were other ways out of the building. That doesn't change the fact that Brian was never seen again outside of the building by anyone. It doesn't change the fact that his most likely route after stepping off camera would have into the hallway that led downstairs to the construction area. It doesn't change the fact that the construction area wasn't viewed until a few days later and that no one from the construction crew has ever spoken publicly about what work may have been completed in the interim. It doesn't change the fact that Brian did not call his friends to announce the beginning of the afterparty that he was supposed to have at his apartment, which indicates that whatever happened to him happened soon after he was last seen (within half an hour or an hour, certainly).
I see two plausible scenarios, in order of likelihood:
1) He died accidentally in the construction area and was concealed. This is supported by the fact that his phone became unreachable almost immediately after he finished his conversation with the two girls and stepped off camera and into oblivion. It is also supported by the fact that none of the cameras near the building captured him outside the building. Inadvertently dodging ever camera in the area would have been equivalent to Theseus's escaping the labyrinth on Crete on his first try with no help and no wrong turns.
2) He could have been a victim of a random street crime on his way home and thrown in the river or otherwise disposed of. One argument against this theory is that killers seldom bother to dispose of a victim's body unless they have a connection to the victim. The fact that no camera anywhere captured him outside of the building is another argument against this theory.
There are other possible scenarios, to be sure, but the others are extremely unlikely.

 

[Looking4Brian]

IMO one of the biggest disadvantages CPD did for this investigation was to make it initially sound like there was no other way out of the Ugly Tuna other than the main entrance or the construction exit. I’m sure they had their reasons at the time, but people heard this, latched onto it, and just can’t get past it. Investigators have since clarified that there were in fact various other exits, but I feel like this is still not widely known. Many of the YouTube videos and podcasts out there that are not well-researched still focus on this misinformation.

As someone who was familiar with the bar at the time of Brian’s disappearance, I can tell you that patrons and employees regularly exited out of the building other ways. When walking into the bar, there was an emergency exit to the right. That door was often propped open, and although an employee usually sat nearby, people stepped out to smoke or use the phone or even exit down the stairs and out into the courtyard. Hurst has confirmed that the camera on this door had been overridden, so there is no surveillance of this exit on the night Brian disappeared.

In addition to that exit, there were doors in the hallway near the top of the escalator where Brian is last seen on CCTV. Those led to a hallway where there was an elevator as well as a stairwell. Yes, he could have taken either one down to the construction exit. But there were other options as well, including a service exit (which the bands and employees used) and the Mad Mex exit. There was a camera on the service exit, but that’s it.

Add to that the fact that no construction took place over the weekend. So, if Brian was injured or killed in the construction area in the early morning hours of Saturday 4/1, no one would have been working in that area until Monday 4/3. Brian had already been reported missing & CPD was investigating that area by that time.

The construction area was very small, and while there was a dirt floor, I do not believe it was as treacherous as some imagine. Hurst clarifies that a bit in the more recent interview on Kelly’s Dead or Alive podcast, and the True Crime Garage guys address that in their most recent update on this case as well. I know it was initially made to sound like there was no way one could navigate through there, but that is just not the case IMO.

Also, look at the timeline. Brian is seen on CCTV at 1:55 talking to Amber & Brightan at the top of the escalators. We know from Brightan’s interview with Kelly that after moving out of frame, Brian stayed and spoke with Amber while she used the restroom. When she returned several minutes later, she put her number in his phone before saying goodbye. That would be 1:58/1:59 at least. Clint & Meredith exit the bar at 2:00 and don’t see Brian. That only gives him a minute or two to disappear as they headed toward the exit. Clint claims to have seen Brian re-enter the bar before losing sight of him. If that’s true, the emergency exit was just to the right of the entrance, which would be closest to Brian if he saw Clint & Meredith upon re-entering & wanted to quickly dodge them as they proceeded towards him.

The dogs picked up Brian’s scent at Wendy’s, which would’ve been the direction he would’ve walked if heading home. Wendy’s parking lot was behind High St and there was no surveillance in that direction.

Finally, as mentioned earlier, Brian’s phone was off or out of service briefly when Meredith called him at 2:01 AM, but then was actively communicating with towers until 2:11 AM on 4/1. It began communicating again once CPD put a pinging service on it on Monday 4/3 and continued to do so for a period of time, indicating it was powered on.

As investigators have told Kelly, if we are ever going to find Brian, we have to get out of that building, because Brian did.

MOO

I agree with everything in this post! The construction just wasn’t what it was made out to be.

 

[MerryB]

Everyone here understands that there were other ways out of the building. That doesn't change the fact that Brian was never seen again outside of the building by anyone. It doesn't change the fact that his most likely route after stepping off camera would have into the hallway that led downstairs to the construction area. It doesn't change the fact that the construction area wasn't viewed until a few days later and that no one from the construction crew has ever spoken publicly about what work may have been completed in the interim. It doesn't change the fact that Brian did not call his friends to announce the beginning of the afterparty that he was supposed to have at his apartment, which indicates that whatever happened to him happened soon after he was last seen (within half an hour or an hour, certainly).

Respectfully SBM.
I’ll go in the same order as you as I counter your statements:

You are correct that Brian was not seen outside of the building. However, if he exited out an alternate exit that was not on camera, and proceeded down Pearl Alley which runs parallel to High St but is an alleyway and therefore without cameras, he would not have been seen.

The most likely route for Brian to exit would have been the emergency exit IMO. I base this on what we know about his whereabouts based on CCTV footage & witness accounts. If he walked out of range at 1:55 AM towards the bar so Brightan could use the restroom inside the Ugly Tuna, he would’ve been standing nearby talking to Amber while they waited for at least 3-4 more minutes. While we don’t know which direction he went after saying goodbye to the girls, he would only have a minute or two to get somewhere. Clint claimed to have seen him re-enter the bar before he & Meredith left at 2:00 AM.

There was no work completed in the construction area in the interim because it was the weekend. Brian disappeared Saturday morning, cops were there by Monday.

You are correct that Brian did not make any outgoing calls or respond to calls or texts after he was last seen; however, this does not mean he was in the construction area IMO. If his phone was on at 1:58-ish for Brightan to put her phone number in, then it was off/out of range for Meredith’s call at 2:01 AM, why would it come back on after that until 2:11 AM? Yes, something may have happened to him after that time, or he may have turned his phone off, but this does not indicate he was in construction because his phone later was turned on again and pinging after that.

MOO

 

[Andreee]

Respectfully SBM.
I’ll go in the same order as you as I counter your statements:

You are correct that Brian was not seen outside of the building. However, if he exited out an alternate exit that was not on camera, and proceeded down Pearl Alley which runs parallel to High St but is an alleyway and therefore without cameras, he would not have been seen.

The most likely route for Brian to exit would have been the emergency exit IMO. I base this on what we know about his whereabouts based on CCTV footage & witness accounts. If he walked out of range at 1:55 AM towards the bar so Brightan could use the restroom inside the Ugly Tuna, he would’ve been standing nearby talking to Amber while they waited for at least 3-4 more minutes. While we don’t know which direction he went after saying goodbye to the girls, he would only have a minute or two to get somewhere. Clint claimed to have seen him re-enter the bar before he & Meredith left at 2:00 AM.

There was no work completed in the construction area in the interim because it was the weekend. Brian disappeared Saturday morning, cops were there by Monday.

You are correct that Brian did not make any outgoing calls or respond to calls or texts after he was last seen; however, this does not mean he was in the construction area IMO. If his phone was on at 1:58-ish for Brightan to put her phone number in, then it was off/out of range for Meredith’s call at 2:01 AM, why would it come back on after that until 2:11 AM? Yes, something may have happened to him after that time, or he may have turned his phone off, but this does not indicate he was in construction because his phone later was turned on again and pinging after that.

MOO

However, it could've been someone else using Brian's phone at that point.

 

[MerryB]

However, it could've been someone else using Brian's phone at that point.

In the 10 minutes between Meredith’s call at 2:01 AM and the last ping at 2:11 AM? Or do you mean from Monday 4/3 and on?

 

[Andreee]

In the 10 minutes between Meredith’s call at 2:01 AM and the last ping at 2:11 AM? Or do you mean from Monday 4/3 and on?

I haven't thought it through really, just on the theory someone got hold of his phone at some point after he left the club or even if someone picked it up if he mislaid it before falling into the construction area. (not likely).

 

[itsrak]

The one individual on the property that eve who failed to appear on vid exiting the property that eve also happens to be the individual who permanently disappeared that eve and also happens to be the individual who failed to appear on myriad nearby surveillance cams. Is there a linkage between the seeming failure to exit the property and the permanent disappearance? Most likely. Between the permanent disappearance and the presence of the 'completely dug up' and 'difficult to navigate, even sober' (the assessment of the lead detective on the case) construction area mere feet from where the missing (and almost certainly deceased) individual was last observed? Most likely. Are the linkages causative in nature? Most likely.

 

[Old Mozez]

The construction just wasn’t what it was made out to be.

Construction went on the better part of the ground floor of the Gateway complex with two major in and outs, one at the south campus gateway and on the other end opposite of Wendy's. You ended up down there the whole place was a construction area! The only safe path was staying on the hallway ultimately leading to the dock outside. Brian never made it to this point, not even according to Hurst.

In the same token, the lead detective sais jump, we jump! He is the one who has provided the facts. But it's clear from ealier interviews with Hurst that he saw no reason for a someone to enter that area. When search crews and other swept through, it was with this pretense in their mind.
Then later, when no clue how Brian got out emerged, Hurst changed his opinion.... when asked he had revised his view to: he went down there and most like got exited out.

Most likely..." to me" Brian didn't.

Just saying... the Brian "most likely got out" has been investigated for the last 15 years. Until the other scenario is properly investigated and re-investigated, that Brian didn't exit this whole thing is riding on a poor guy's mystery who just wanted to traverse an area for whatever reason and didn't get to make it.

I'd say put some resources on it and check it out one last time.

 

[MerryB]

I'd say put some resources on it and check it out one last time.

That building has been completely remodeled taken down to the studs. It is now OSU offices.