Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #135

[Argonaut]

I was thinking the same thing. I think someone was in that area for a different purpose and saw Abby and Libby, and it became a crime of opportunity. LE have indicated that it was "all over" very quickly, which makes it seem that BG was looking to kill someone, not sexually assault them. I've often wondered if it was somehow connected with someone visiting the nearby cemetery. I've looked through the gravestones, looking for someone who died in either later January or early February, thinking maybe someone was making a visit to a relative.

I spent a lot of time reading at the cemetery online. One person stuck out as a repeat visitor to the cemetery that had children and a spouse that was into drones. The spouse died a few months before the murders.

 

[I wonder]

<modsnip>
We don't know enough about the crime and crime scene at Delphi to assess whether BG left a scene which purportedly showed a murder involving solely pleasure, or whether it had potentially had gone wrong in any sense. But is it possible that the combination of the difficulty in carrying out this crime, the witnesses who saw him that day and the video footage taken by Libby, could make this his first and only crime?

If he keeps his head down and stays squeaky clean, no brushes with the law at all, he may believe he can remain undetected. Although I hope not, he may be right.

 

[taylorss]

Yes sadly agree about “true crime” as a tool of teaching & encouragement. But I bet it’s nothing compared to inmate gossip!! that has the ‘scholarly’ info of “true crime” run through the mill of experience, & combined with incentive to brag, close quarters & boredom ....

as to whether this could’ve been BG’s first crime .... well, nothing is impossible. But he went so far over the line of decency in so many ways! IMO this doesn’t seem like the first time this perp has stepped over that line. Unless his motive was totally atypical .... maybe EG (entirely made up & not true) he was riding a motor-scooter across the bridge drunk, not paying attention, thought it would be fun to terrorize the girls & found himself knocking them off & killing them.

This made-up by me illustrative scenario could be one way this horrible public daylight killing of two innocent local children happened to be a first crime of its perp. But without a highly contrived scenario like such, JMO I can’t imagine this was the beast’s first foray into serious wrongdoing MOO

ETA - oh dear, keep forgetting to watch my language even at its most mild .....

 

[Yemelyan]

I was thinking the same thing. I think someone was in that area for a different purpose and saw Abby and Libby, and it became a crime of opportunity. LE have indicated that it was "all over" very quickly, which makes it seem that BG was looking to kill someone, not sexually assault them. I've often wondered if it was somehow connected with someone visiting the nearby cemetery. I've looked through the gravestones, looking for someone who died in either later January or early February, thinking maybe someone was making a visit to a relative.

But how long should a crime with a sexual motivation take? Does a quick crime really mean sexual assault did not or could not occur?

Just throwing this out there, but the abduction and murder of children by someone who is not their family member (if that's what this was) has a sexual motivation the vast majority of the time AND is almost always a quick-moving crime, as almost half of abducted minors are killed within one hour (as apparently Abby and Libby were) and about 75% are dead within 3 hours. These statistics come from the benchmark child abduction/murder study by Brown and Keppel which can be read here: Investigative Case Management for Missing Children Homicides: Report II | Office of Justice Programs.

So think about that...sexual assault of children when the perpetrator also murders them is "all over" within one hour in almost half of all abducted/murdered child cases that are known about. So that makes the timeline of the Delphi case pretty typical, not a weird outlier where the perpetrator "didn't have time" to do what he wanted to do.

The possibility of a sexual motive is not precluded by the known short timeline of the case, IMO.

 

[katydid23]

And sometimes, the sexual gratification comes from the violence itself, and there is no actual sexual assault---just the act of murder.

 

[Yemelyan]

And sometimes, the sexual gratification comes from the violence itself, and there is no actual sexual assault---just the act of murder.

I wish more people understood this. These aren't "normal" sexual encounters that are taking place. The sexual act that fueled the murder could have occurred far from the victims or even later, at the murderer's home.

 

[Ozoner]

I wish more people understood this. These aren't "normal" sexual encounters that are taking place. The sexual act that fueled the murder could have occurred far from the victims or even later, at the murderer's home.

I believe I've read that some killers ejaculate spontaneously while commiting murder—without any penetration and without even touching themselves.

 

[DaveTheGreat]

Does anybody actually believe this will be solved?

 

[Inthedetails]

Does anybody actually believe this will be solved?

Yes

 

[Justice101]

following

 

[taylorss]

Does anybody actually believe this will be solved?

I continue to believe it has been!! I’m stuck on BJC still

 

[helpfulcharlie]

I believe I've read that some killers ejaculate spontaneously while commiting murder—without any penetration and without even touching themselves.

"Thanks for the ... evidence."

 

[SMK777]

Does anybody actually believe this will be solved?

I’m hoping, but have a lot of fears at this late date.

 

[SMK777]

I continue to believe it has been!! I’m stuck on BJC still

If so, they’ll need real evidence linking him.

 

[DaveTheGreat]

I'm one of the few who thinks them being teenage girls has absolutely nothing to do with what happened. I think he was pestering them for money or any valuables he can exchange for drugs and when they eventually said no or told him off he killed them using a knife he had. Most likely cut their throats because he was so angry, maybe coming down from his high. Its an event that doesn't make too much sense from a sexual assault or kidnapping standpoint when there's two. I believe it's also part of the reason it hasn't been solved, its because the guy is either dead already or homeless drifting from place to place. Motive was always money.

 

[Jax49]

I'm one of the few who thinks them being teenage girls has absolutely nothing to do with what happened. I think he was pestering them for money or any valuables he can exchange for drugs and when they eventually said no or told him off he killed them using a knife he had. Most likely cut their throats because he was so angry, maybe coming down from his high. Its an event that doesn't make too much sense from a sexual assault or kidnapping standpoint when there's two. I believe it's also part of the reason it hasn't been solved, its because the guy is either dead already or homeless drifting from place to place. Motive was always money.

That would be a lot easier to agree with if it weren't for the girls' undergarments found by LE in the creek. moo

 

[155etta]

That would be a lot easier to agree with if it weren't for the girls' undergarments found by LE in the creek. moo

Wow. News to me. Do you have a link for this?

 

[Jax49]

Wow. News to me. Do you have a link for this?

Tricia gave permission to discuss the underwear after it was shared in an approved podcast.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

I’ve been listening to the Scene of the Crime podcast. I am happy there is an excellent, informative podcast about the facts of this case. There were things I did not know (like LE finding girls undergarments).
bbm

ETA: The "I've been" comment is by another poster, not me.

 

[DaveTheGreat]

I wasn't too familiar with that either. Thanks for the information.

 

[155etta]

Tricia gave permission to discuss the underwear after it was shared in an approved podcast.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

I’ve been listening to the Scene of the Crime podcast. I am happy there is an excellent, informative podcast about the facts of this case. There were things I did not know (like LE finding girls undergarments).
bbm

ETA: The "I've been" comment is by another poster, not me.

Thank you!