GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #62

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molly1255 said:
I think the only ghost of a chance GW may and that is "may" have had earlier was trying to blame the others. Now he is really skunked. JMO.
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Yes his attorney did this very thing at George's Bond Hearing, blamed the others.

I'm posting this for you, I understand the posters on here are seriously done with all of this, but I just thought you might like to read it again.

George's attorney putting the blame on others

Attorney Richard Nash:

First off I want to apologize ah, an hour and a half ago I felt like stopping this to remind the court that this isn't about Jake Wagner this isn't about Angela Wagner, this is about George Wagner the 4th.

But I figured it would be best to just say nothing to see what this is really all about. And so this is why we heard so much testimony regarding order history, regarding who bought what, who did what, who had motive, whose child was in question.

There's been a lot of testimony regarding whose account was used or whose rewards was used, nothing pointing in the direction of George Wagner.

Ah, there is some testimony regarding a palm print on a gun, there's no testimony that that was George Wagner's hand.

Not only that but there was a list soposedly that was retrieved from a phone but more importantly not George Wagner's phone.

Ah, there was evidence regarding a solvent catcher or suppressor or again a 22 caliber. Testimony we heard here today had nothing to do with George.

Really your honor, this whole case, if there is a case, and I'm not saying it is, but it's about Edward Jake Wagner and Angela Wagner.

The only testimony we heard, and we can boil it down to one minute, and that's that they did everything together. And therefore based on that, they want the court to believe that the presumption is great that George Wagner was involved in a homicide.
 
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Berrybell said:
I respectfully disagree, looking at the evidence we've seen to date shows a complete dedication to the executions' by all four Wagners.
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I understand your perspective. But do you see evidence of complete dedication to murder by all four?

I agree with your point about the collective, particularly AW (custody forgeries, shoe purchases, etc.). But it does not seem as clear about the others. While it is likely because of things like the family voting together, but there is a plausible version of events where one or two were the ringleader that would be quite advantageous to the prosecution with JW as a witness.

Actually, now that I think about it, what would preclude a defense from the three being: JW is testifying to avoid the death penalty for himself because he killed them all?
 
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sunshineray said:
You're not off at all. It totally makes sense. FW, IMO, didn't take a shine to AW...ever. She also wasn't going to let AW get control of anything she left to her son or grandson's through attrition.

It shows how invested AW was in having control. Control of kids and the money her kids and/or grandkids would come to inherit from FW that she didn't destroy those custody documents it seems she herself forged and notarized. To me the only explanation, after being repeatedly questioned and according to her attorney harrassed by LE, is she was pathologically dwelling in her own world of self-grandeur thinking nothing will stop me. AJMO
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Since the custody documents granted AW custody after the death of GW and JW, is it plausible that it was because GW, JW and Billy were at the scene and at the risk of being killed by the Rhodens if they were not effective in the W plan? I recall someone saying all four were on UHR but I don't call anything saying all four were in the houses. Does anyone remember someone like Dewine saying all four where there?
 
Cool Cats said:
Reality sure isn't muddled anymore.
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I concur on evidence. It's not murky, but the motivations, hearts, thoughts and histories are and, will forever. The Ws words can't be trusted so we will have to infer, I believe, from the evidence and their behaviors. Inference has value, but doesn't always give clear answers
 
Cool Cats said:
Reality sure isn't muddled anymore.
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It never was muddled for me. More like, crystal clear.

If it was muddled, why wouldn't even one defense attorney have filed something good about their clients? AC requested reciprocal discovery over and over and over and never received anything. That's pretty transparent in and of itself. MOO
 
gizmobtj said:
Since the custody documents granted AW custody after the death of GW and JW, is it plausible that it was because GW, JW and Billy were at the scene and at the risk of being killed by the Rhodens if they were not effective in the W plan? I recall someone saying all four were on UHR but I don't call anything saying all four were in the houses. Does anyone remember someone like Dewine saying all four where there?
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The Indictments for all four Wagners speak clear to that, MMO
 
Just some random thoughts...all my opinion of course. Some are based on the State's 4/28/2021 Discovery.

AW: It looks like a fellow jailmate gave an interview on 11/23/2020. Hmmm.
Only thing after that was a medical travel request 2/12/2021.

JW: It seems to me from studying dates, Discovery, etc., that he may have given the weapons/vehicles information that resulted in the first week of November 2019 searches at Bethel Hill Road and FWF. I say that because those two searches were sealed by entries in Jake's court journal. Also, RN's final statement was under seal.

Supplemental Discovery was also provided 12/22/2020 and 1/22/2021, IIRC.

Large bank statements came to light in the 4/28/2021 Discovery. These included numerous "items" in very important time periods. Note: Ohio Valley Bank is the only one shown to have accounts for AW & BW; Jake and George; and FW/Crystal Springs Group Home. (Possibly Lucasville Mission, also. I can't remember.)

Discovery showed about a year (Mar 20 - Mar 21) of jail calls for Billy and George, bet those were recorded. And no dates were given for Jake's calls.

ATF Report by James Barlow 2/24/2021 erased all doubt that the former reports were unreliable.

Lastly, Investigative Reports done on Wagner devices 3/10/2021 left no doubt.

All my opinion only.

Oh, one more thing. Does anyone have a guess as to what the 10/22/20 screenshot was? Everyone seemed to have it. I think it was Billy's Motion for Bail.
 
gizmobtj said:
Just so you know, I don't think what you are saying is implausible. There are just lots or alternatives and it's easy for people-- us -- to seek B&W narratives when reality tends to be muddled
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I'm not sure how many alternatives there could be concerning the planning and executing the murders. I'm just a simple layperson, but I can think outside the box. This case seems pretty simple. Jealousy, control, power, revenge and evil led the charge. What did I miss?

What I do know is that if one of the 4 Ws went to LE prior to the deaths then this conversation wouldnt be happening.

The little evidence known to the public points to all four in the planning of the murders. We know none of the 4 had the intestinal fortitude to rise up to either convince the others this was crazy or go to LE to stop it.

Nothing is ever fully black and white but this isnt so far off. The 4 Ws stalked, spied, planned and executed the murder of 8 people. All 4 are cowards for not reporting the planning. Whether they were all o n UHR the fateful night, or hanging out with granny on the farm, they are equally guilty.

What is your narrative?
What are some of your alternative theories?
In this case, what aspect do you consider muddled?

Respectfully,
Dave
 
molly1255 said:
I think the only ghost of a chance GW may and that is "may" have had earlier was trying to blame the others. Now he is really skunked. JMO.
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<modsnip>

Among all thevidince, is proof he helped plan the murders and purchased supplies and equipment. His shoe prints were found in the blood of a victim at one of the crime scenes. Ballistics evidence show he was there. That's all. Game over. He's guilty.
 
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Everything22 said:
All of the 4 should feel genuine remorse, MOO. How could they even sit and listen to their charges being read during arraignments and show NO emotion?
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Except for that people who can plan this sort of thing, without any apparent reluctance or misgivings at all, don't have any normal human emotions in the first place. It's the age old case of, "The only regret or emotions they feel is for themselves because they got caught." Now, in their minds, they are probably blaming the Rhodens for the situation they find themselves in. If it weren't for the Rhodens this would have never happened to them. (That's "W think", imo.) I don't believe they will ever feel remorse... and their main emotion will be anger at the predicament that they're in.

I also think that, at least JW has not given up. I think he thinks he'll find a way to get out of prison one day; no matter how it happens and no matter how long it takes him to figure out how. I think he's seen too many movies.
 
pepper 34 said:
Except for that people who can plan this sort of thing, without any apparent reluctance or misgivings at all, don't have any normal human emotions in the first place. It's the age old case of, "The only regret or emotions they feel is for themselves because they got caught." Now, in their minds, they are probably blaming the Rhodens for the situation they find themselves in. If it weren't for the Rhodens this would have never happened to them. (That's "W think", imo.) I don't believe they will ever feel remorse... and their main emotion will be anger at the predicament that they're in.

I also think that, at least JW has not given up. I think he thinks he'll find a way to get out of prison one day; no matter how it happens and no matter how long it takes him to figure out how. I think he's seen too many movies.
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I totally agree!
 
Johnny B Bad said:
So what kind of shape and where do you all think the guns where in also why in the heck made the Wagners think they was so good at murder that they didn’t have to get rid of the guns, My Opinion Is Because They Probably Killed Before, JMO
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I wonder if the guns were hidden somewhere on FW's property because they would be safe there. That property was expected to be there, in the family, far into the future. Anything hidden there would be unlikely to be found by anyone from outside the family. "The guns they used to kill the R's." Kept as trophies to remember their huge accomplishment as a family. All their "careful" planning, cooperation and success, which I think they enjoyed very much. I don't think they gave one second's thought that they would be caught. If they hid the guns on FW's property, that would be something I doubt FW would be aware of.

ETA: I wouldn't doubt that "this one" or "that one" hadn't killed or been involved in a murder or murders before. As I recall there were several similar murders in that general area in the not too distant past. If BW was involved in drug distribution, it's a likely bet things didn't always go smoothly with the transactions.
 
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