Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #135

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From Early on - Feb 2017 Article:

1. Was the individual wearing all black referenced in any other MSM articles, etc.? Was that individual identified and dismissed? If not, could it suggest a secondary individual involved? Possibly the change in direction or second sketch??

The children described the man wearing all black. Meanwhile, police continue their search for a man dressed differently. They circulated his photo Wednesday, saying he would have been on the trail at the same time as the girls.

2. Was there discussion early on around the statement below that someone would be willing to point me to?

She and her fiancé are among the hundreds who have given tips to police.

"I told the detective, he said it looked an awful lot like the guy he used to work with," she said. "He said he knew back then that guy had a house back in this area and he said he knew he was still around."

Memorial grows as police continue search for Delphi girls' killer | wthr.com

Thoughts anyone?
<modnsip> Although an accomplice has not been stated by LE, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not possible.
Also, from what I’ve read these witnesses, the woman & her fiancé, have not really been mentioned anymore by LE, AND they were never identified. And this is exceptionally odd to me. But hey, what do I know.

All mO0 of course.
 
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ADMIN NOTE:

When a member asks for a link, provide it. When a Moderator asks for a link, provide it.

Basic TOS ... members are required to provide links to what they state as fact about something that has not previously been discussed in the thread. To basically tell other members or Mods post numbers in another thread or give hints on how they should go about finding it is NOT satisfactory.

Members, Mods and Admins do not have time to be trying to find the info to support what you claim as fact, nor should they have to. The posting member is the one who is required to provide a clickable link to the information that supports what they state. Common courtesy so that we don't have 10 to 20 members and WS staff all rummaging around trying to find what should have been provided in the first place.

Warning points will be issued and if it continues, Time Outs will be issued.

There are media posts about the trails which are still active going back to at least 2007, albeit posts from Logansport and Delphi.

Which makes me wonder how long BG had known about them, and had fantasized and planned for the attack.

Hikers experience beauty of Delphi Historic Trail
 
There are media posts about the trails which are still active going back to at least 2007, albeit posts from Logansport and Delphi.

Which makes me wonder how long BG had known about them, and had fantasized and planned for the attack.

Hikers experience beauty of Delphi Historic Trail

I got the impression what’s now referred to as the High Bridge trail was the original rail bed, as old as the bridge although in more recent days it would’ve been private property prior to the donation of the land.

From your link -

“The trail follows a rail trail to old Camden Road and over to the Monon High Bridge, a decommissioned railroad bridge currently owned by CSX….”

June, 2015
Work continues on Monon High Bridge Trail | Carroll County Comet
“The nonprofit organization, Heartland Heritage Inc. (HHI), recently extended the trail on the west end with old rail bed land donated by adjacent landowners.”
 
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I have no reason why I didn’t see this on the link posted earlier other than it might be time to visit the optometrist. My mistake, the alleged “man in black” story was from the same Monday. But notice a discrepancy to known fact - “….was not on the trail with the girls…but other friends were”. Then after the detailed story she goes on to say …”could just be rumour”.

Memorial grows as police continue search for Delphi girls' killer | wthr.com
“Chasity was not on the trail with the girls Monday after noon, but other friends were. They talked about a man they saw.

"They said that they had said, 'Hi' and he, like, just brushed them off and kept going," Chasity said.

The teens said the man seemed out of place, though Chasity says that "could just be a rumor."

The children described the man wearing all black. Meanwhile, police continue their search for a man dressed differently. They circulated his photo Wednesday, saying he would have been on the trail at the same time as the girls….”
 
From Early on - Feb 2017 Article:

1. Was the individual wearing all black referenced in any other MSM articles, etc.? Was that individual identified and dismissed? If not, could it suggest a secondary individual involved? Possibly the change in direction or second sketch??

The children described the man wearing all black. Meanwhile, police continue their search for a man dressed differently. They circulated his photo Wednesday, saying he would have been on the trail at the same time as the girls.

2. Was there discussion early on around the statement below that someone would be willing to point me to?

She and her fiancé are among the hundreds who have given tips to police.

"I told the detective, he said it looked an awful lot like the guy he used to work with," she said. "He said he knew back then that guy had a house back in this area and he said he knew he was still around."

Memorial grows as police continue search for Delphi girls' killer | wthr.com

Thoughts anyone?


All mO0 of course.
You have described almost to a tee, one of my best friend’s husband. I and tons of others in town were completely fooled by him for 20+ years. Behind closed doors he was someone else entirely. My friend revealed to me five years ago the lying and raging she had endured for 30 years. I frankly think he’s a psychopath. They are separated now.
I think BG could definitely be a sociopath or psychopath, hiding his true self from people and I think LE really believes that.
I also think it’s possible he could just be a mean violent person like JBC.
i just googled the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath. I think my ex BIL is most definitely a psychopath, as he has ZERO remorse.
But BG may be a sociopath based on what Carter said in the 2019 PC: “To the murderer: I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left.“, DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights
My google search said that sociopaths “have a limited, albeit weak, ability to feel empathy and remorse.”
That leads me to believe that LE’s/BAU’s profile of BG is that he is a sociopath, and not a psychopath. But who really knows besides God. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

All mO0
 
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I got the impression what’s now referred to as the High Bridge trail was the original rail bed, as old as the bridge although in more recent days it would’ve been private property prior to the donation of the land.

From your link -

“The trail follows a rail trail to old Camden Road and over to the Monon High Bridge, a decommissioned railroad bridge currently owned by CSX….”

June, 2015
Work continues on Monon High Bridge Trail | Carroll County Comet
“The nonprofit organization, Heartland Heritage Inc. (HHI), recently extended the trail on the west end with old rail bed land donated by adjacent landowners.”

In the past I've found photos of what you describe, the right-of-way was terribly overgrown for many years after abandonment. Albeit on private land acquired after abandonment. I don't know the timeline of trail improvements, but I do know there were efforts in 2006, 2012, and sometime since 2012 signs were put in on what is now the west side of 25. Excavation removed a lot of earth along there, eliminating the old r-o-w where Freedom Bridge is now.

I just found this, before pics of the area now occupied by Freedom Bridge and the trail by there. You can see in one where a lot of vegetation had been cleared on the old r-o-w just east of FB, also those efforts revealed the old Milroy bridge was still there, put there by the RR so the family could farm parcels on either side of the r-o-w. Posts are from 2013.

Monon line around Delphi - Historic Railroads in General - Indiana Railroads Bull Session

Found this gem a while ago, again great "before" pics.

The one with the rails which were welded together and then put in the ground and painted red to prevent vehicles from getting on to the bridge should look familiar to folks who have followed the case. Author is looking north, bridge would be behind him.

MONON Railroad Historical-Technical Society
 
<modsnip- quoted post removed>

That’s what’s so haunting about this crime: Two female eighth graders brutally murdered in broad daylight on a weekday afternoon on lovely, historic trails, just as the Dad was arriving to pick them up.

I’ve heard of young college-age women murdered in the middle of the night while camping in a tent somewhere, which is tragic enough— but the Delphi murders are beyond the pale.
 
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In the past I've found photos of what you describe, the right-of-way was terribly overgrown for many years after abandonment. Albeit on private land acquired after abandonment. I don't know the timeline of trail improvements, but I do know there were efforts in 2006, 2012, and sometime since 2012 signs were put in on what is now the west side of 25. Excavation removed a lot of earth along there, eliminating the old r-o-w where Freedom Bridge is now.

I just found this, before pics of the area now occupied by Freedom Bridge and the trail by there. You can see in one where a lot of vegetation had been cleared on the old r-o-w just east of FB, also those efforts revealed the old Milroy bridge was still there, put there by the RR so the family could farm parcels on either side of the r-o-w. Posts are from 2013.

Monon line around Delphi - Historic Railroads in General - Indiana Railroads Bull Session

Found this gem a while ago, again great "before" pics.

The one with the rails which were welded together and then put in the ground and painted red to prevent vehicles from getting on to the bridge should look familiar to folks who have followed the case. Author is looking north, bridge would be behind him.

MONON Railroad Historical-Technical Society
^^ LINK : I just stumbled about: Monon High Bridge is the formerly Deer Creek Trestle.
 
@ StarryStarryNight.. where I differ is in my belief that the murderer of Abby and Libby is not going to "sort themselves out for us like this." He is not going to commit an act that would put him directly on LE's radar. I truly don't believe the murderer, who has gotten away with this for four years, is going to take a 9 year old girl in his home and do what he did. It just doesn't make sense. I just don't see JBC as the one who did that to Abby and Libby. In my opinion, it was more than just "luck," it was a lot of planning. JBC seems to me impulsive, the monster on the bridge doesn't. Him walking on that bridge, and ordering the girls "down the hill" to a planned location says that to me. JBC.. being so impulsive.. would have found/taken the easiest and quickest way to murder them.. in R.L.'s nearby field perhaps, without even having to go down the hill.

I can understand us looking into every single person that LE brings to the forefront in their investigation, that is NOT what I am saying, I CAN'T understand why so many are hell-bent on forcing each of these PERSONS OF INTEREST into being the bridge monster. And then they aren't. Yet we do it over and over. We CAN'T be sure that JBC is the murderer of Abby and Libby, yet some of us here seem to be! Though I say that I think he isn't, I could be wrong too. I'm just saying that perhaps keeping an open mind and taking our tunnel vision off of JBC and focusing it on all of the possibilities would be the prudent thing to do.

Yes, I agree 100%, we all want to see the bridge monster caught ASAP, we are all on the same team.

<modsnip>

JMO
 
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I have no reason why I didn’t see this on the link posted earlier other than it might be time to visit the optometrist. My mistake, the alleged “man in black” story was from the same Monday. But notice a discrepancy to known fact - “….was not on the trail with the girls…but other friends were”. Then after the detailed story she goes on to say …”could just be rumour”.

Memorial grows as police continue search for Delphi girls' killer | wthr.com
“Chasity was not on the trail with the girls Monday after noon, but other friends were. They talked about a man they saw.

"They said that they had said, 'Hi' and he, like, just brushed them off and kept going," Chasity said.

The teens said the man seemed out of place, though Chasity says that "could just be a rumor."

The children described the man wearing all black. Meanwhile, police continue their search for a man dressed differently. They circulated his photo Wednesday, saying he would have been on the trail at the same time as the girls….”

Sincere question - I haven’t followed this case from the beginning. What piece is the known discrepancy?
 
@ StarryStarryNight.. where I differ is in my belief that the murderer of Abby and Libby is not going to "sort themselves out for us like this." He is not going to commit an act that would put him directly on LE's radar. I truly don't believe the murderer, who has gotten away with this for four years, is going to take a 9 year old girl in his home and do what he did. It just doesn't make sense. I just don't see JBC as the one who did that to Abby and Libby. In my opinion, it was more than just "luck," it was a lot of planning. JBC seems to me impulsive, the monster on the bridge doesn't. Him walking on that bridge, and ordering the girls "down the hill" to a planned location says that to me. JBC.. being so impulsive.. would have found/taken the easiest and quickest way to murder them.. in R.L.'s nearby field perhaps, without even having to go down the hill.

I can understand us looking into every single person that LE brings to the forefront in their investigation, that is NOT what I am saying, I CAN'T understand why so many are hell-bent on forcing each of these PERSONS OF INTEREST into being the bridge monster. And then they aren't. Yet we do it over and over. We CAN'T be sure that JBC is the murderer of Abby and Libby, yet some of us here seem to be! Though I say that I think he isn't, I could be wrong too. I'm just saying that perhaps keeping an open mind and taking our tunnel vision off of JBC and focusing it on all of the possibilities would be the prudent thing to do.

Yes, I agree 100%, we all want to see the bridge monster caught ASAP, we are all on the same team.

<modsnip>

JMO
I think because JBC fits in so many ways, and there’s such a desire to have closure all around in this case, that the temptation to latch onto him as the key of keys is irresistible.

I would agree that grabbing the 9 year old, IF he’d gotten away with the bridge murders, would be reckless in the extreme. However, these things have been known to happen.

<modsnip>
 
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I would agree that grabbing the 9 year old, IF he’d gotten away with the bridge murders, would be reckless in the extreme. However, these things have been known to happen.
It's an insane behavior even if you've been a pure angel up to that moment. We already know JBC had a rap sheet out to there and warrants outstanding at the time. Still, he went ahead.

We don't know that Delphi was all that planned. It might have been pure opportunism. Possibly LE knows the answer on this, but we don't.
 
It's an insane behavior even if you've been a pure angel up to that moment. We already know JBC had a rap sheet out to there and warrants outstanding at the time. Still, he went ahead.

We don't know that Delphi was all that planned. It might have been pure opportunism. Possibly LE knows the answer on this, but we don't.
All true.
 
Sincere question - I haven’t followed this case from the beginning. What piece is the known discrepancy?

There were no friends with Abby and Libby that day. A widely spread rumour that another friend had earlier planned to go with them that day but changed her mind at the last minute was also refuted by BP. BP has further stated no one saw the girls that day on the trails (other than the killer obviously) as it just happened there was a lull in other walkers at the time. But I’ve watched too many videos, so I’m sorry I don’t recall the specific source. I’m hoping someone else might.
 
There were no friends with Abby and Libby that day. A widely spread rumour that another friend had earlier planned to go with them that day but changed her mind at the last minute was also refuted by BP. BP has further stated no one saw the girls that day on the trails (other than the killer obviously) as it just happened there was a lull in other walkers at the time. But I’ve watched too many videos, so I’m sorry I don’t recall the specific source. I’m hoping someone else might.

Ok- thanks!
I watched the video in the article and got the impression she (CJ) was saying she wasn’t on the trails with the girls (meaning whomever the girls may have been that observed the alleged individual in black, not necessarily meaning with Abby & Libby).
Just my interpretation when I watched it. It’s always interesting how things can be interpreted in different ways.
Memorial grows as police continue search for Delphi girls' killer | wthr.com
 
Yes Rte. 18 is one of those routes. I drove it on my way to MHB last year.

I'm of the opinion BG knows all the main roads out there. It's easy to get around here in most of northern IN, most of the roads run pretty much at 90 degree angles, something that took some getting used to when I moved here.

I think a lot of folks have been under the impression that because of the highway that perhaps a lot of people would have known about the trails and the bridge, before the murders. The highway opened only in 2014 through there, as LE have indicated they think the perp is someone who knows the area. Pre-highway, I picture the trails having even less traffic, more of a local "hidden gem". I've yet to find any YouTube videos of the bridge area posted prior to 2016, despite the bridge's local popularity and it being known about by railroad history folks and the like. The state and U.S. routes through there would have all been two-lane roads.

To this day, the Google Maps app has not been updated from 2008 where the old IN 25, C.R. 300, and Samuel Milroy Rd. meet. So while the overhead views are pretty sharp and what have you, Street Views have not been updated, and once you get there by vehicle the Maps app starts flaking a bit. To find the turn off for C.R. 300 I've had to use landmarks at 65 mph, the Freedom Bridge, the Delphi water tower, Andersons (grain terminal), and the NS railroad line through there. Otherwise, it's easy to just haul through there and not even realize you've passed the turn off for the trail. There are no signs along the highway for the turn off, nothing indicating C.R. 300 is there or for that matter the Delphi is a stone's throw from the highway. There are two small signs for the Monon Trail which were put up in more recent times, but still there are no signs for the bridge itself along the highway.

I'm convinced BG was well aware of all of the above well before the murders, he knows that general area well.

JMO
In the beginning, I had the thought that the killer was familiar with the area because he knew about the area off the trails where the crime scene was. Now as time goes on, I'm of the opinion that just knowing about the existence of the trail and how to get there may be just as important, if not more important. And even if the trail was not there 10-15 years prior, how long had the private road underneath the bridge been there? Could this killer have been a visitor to the area walking down that road? Just hanging out or maybe even going down to the creek to fish?
 
Despite what I hear in some theories, I don't believe this killer knew either of the girls. (There is probably a small chance he had seen them somewhere before and/or maybe they had seen him, but none of the parties knew names.) The degree of planning, if any, that went into this is an interesting topic. For example, did the killer park at the far end of the cemetery or at the now demolished CPS building? That would almost seem to indicate that when this killer parked his vehicle he knew he was going to do something - kill, abduct, rape - when he went there. (I suppose the argument could be made that this killer always did this as he was always on the prowl for a victim.) OTH, if this was PURELY opportunistic he could have parked where everyone else usually parked. I do believe the choice of victims was opportunistic. If a petite 5', 100 pound blonde 20 something woman had been where Abigail and Liberty were that person would have been the victim instead. For Abigail and Liberty it was wrong place, wrong time.
 
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