TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #3 *NAME NOT RELEASED*

[Nell91]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I've had a little sort-of-theory for a while now. Is it possible someone in that prison did know her - intimately, even - but denied any knowledge of her existence because she was underage and he wasn't? It's something that's been on my mind ever since I read that article (IIRC by a police officer involved with the case? wish I could find the link again) who said she told the witnesses she was looking for her "boyfriend".

Totally agree with you. A few pages back somebody pulled up an old news article that was asking for penpals for prisoners. WCJD could have done this, yet never sent a photo of herself, so wouldn't have been recognised. Or the inmate was just flat out lying.
It really does baffle me this case, I've lost sleep over it, so many avenues and possibilities.

 

[Beekarina]

Not wanting to be too graphic, but I think the thread I read mentioned variations in cervixes, and not hips. I guess some women look as though they have given birth? I can't remember which discussion it was, and it doesn't really matter since I don't think it was common. I knew, of course, if you had a c-section, you may have never dilated and so on, but then you would have signs of a surgical birth. Just stuck in my mind since I always thought it was a pretty "either/or" sort of thing, but apparently not always.

 

[Kiranerys]

Not wanting to be too graphic, but I think the thread I read mentioned variations in cervixes, and not hips. I guess some women look as though they have given birth? I can't remember which discussion it was, and it doesn't really matter since I don't think it was common. I knew, of course, if you had a c-section, you may have never dilated and so on, but then you would have signs of a surgical birth. Just stuck in my mind since I always thought it was a pretty "either/or" sort of thing, but apparently not always.

I think once someone has given birth that you could tell by the cervix, for my subsequent pregnancies I was told that the cervix is already slightly dilated due to the previous birth but I wouldn't like to swear to it.

 

[Beekarina]

I think once someone has given birth that you could tell by the cervix, for my subsequent pregnancies I was told that the cervix is already slightly dilated due to the previous birth but I wouldn't like to swear to it.

That is what I had also thought before I read the discussion. I guess the point I am trying to make is with these long cold cases, if someone seems otherwise a strong match save one thing, I feel it can't hurt to submit. It seems like almost anything we thing we know with certainty about a UID can be wrong.

 

[Two for the road]

I think once someone has given birth that you could tell by the cervix, for my subsequent pregnancies I was told that the cervix is already slightly dilated due to the previous birth but I wouldn't like to swear to it.

A cervix that has dilated to 10 cm has a oval, or elongated opening, a cervix that has never been dilated is round/circular. However, this piece of information wasn't known back in 1980. They used the old hip markers as evidence of prior childbirth. Hip bones separate and rotate outward during pregnancy and without intervention, stay that way. However, that does not happen to every woman and in some instances it doesn't happen at all. Therefore it isn't a reliable indicator of prior childbirth.

In my opinion, I think WCJD was a pen pal to a prisoner. Likely, she knew him and he meant something to her (she traveled a long way to see him and was kind of dressed up) but she meant nothing to him (didn't fess up to anyone in prison that she was known to him) given that Huntsville housed the worst of the worst, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a charming psychopath and WCJD fell for his ruse. If that is the case, she could have come from anywhere.

 

[Spindlebrook]

A cervix that has dilated to 10 cm has a oval, or elongated opening, a cervix that has never been dilated is round/circular. However, this piece of information wasn't known back in 1980. They used the old hip markers as evidence of prior childbirth. Hip bones separate and rotate outward during pregnancy and without intervention, stay that way. However, that does not happen to every woman and in some instances it doesn't happen at all. Therefore it isn't a reliable indicator of prior childbirth.

In my opinion, I think WCJD was a pen pal to a prisoner. Likely, she knew him and he meant something to her (she traveled a long way to see him and was kind of dressed up) but she meant nothing to him (didn't fess up to anyone in prison that she was known to him) given that Huntsville housed the worst of the worst, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a charming psychopath and WCJD fell for his ruse. If that is the case, she could have come from anywhere.

I agree with the pen pal theory, and I’ll add that there is the possibility that whomever her pen pal was may not have known what she looked like and would not recognize her sketch/PM image if shown to him.

 

[Wossy]

Totally agree with you. A few pages back somebody pulled up an old news article that was asking for penpals for prisoners. WCJD could have done this, yet never sent a photo of herself, so wouldn't have been recognised. Or the inmate was just flat out lying.
It really does baffle me this case, I've lost sleep over it, so many avenues and possibilities.

That's unfortunate you lost sleep over this case, just know someday we will know who this little girl was and her story. If you ever come to Texas you should stop by her grave and leave her some flowers I'm sure that will help.

 

[Nell91]

I don't necessarily think she was from Texas. I dont know why, I just have a gut feeling.. that being said, shes not on any missing persons database so that doesn't help really

 

[PropaneYeeter]

I don't necessarily think she was from Texas. I dont know why, I just have a gut feeling.. that being said, shes not on any missing persons database so that doesn't help really

Brit here, so please forgive the ignorance - but wouldn't the witnesses have noted she had an out-of-state accent if she wasn't from around there? I'm rather good with accents, and the Texan accent sounds pretty distinctive to me.

 

[Sweetluv]

This case is close to my heart...I have followed it for quite sometime now.
So many things run through my head.....let's say she was local. That could explain the lack of a bag, change of clothes, toiletries, ect...but why then was she reported to be seen around 630 pm? Prisons have certain visiting hours. One would think if she lived in the area, she would have ventured out much earlier...unless she was having trouble finding a ride. Maybe the comment of WHO CARES comes from her frustration.
If traveling, again, where is personal belongings? What was her gameplan after leaving the prison....doesnt sound like she was prepared to go to a motel..or was she meeting someone there other than an inmate?
So many scenarios...

 

[Sweetluv]

She was nourished and clean according to reports....so she was cared for in some fashion. SOMEONE has to be wondering where she is or what happened to her.....
If only the person who let her out of the car came forward...they could shed some light on this case. I would hope if they heard about this, they would have contacted the authorities. Do we know what kind of press this case got, if any, in the beginning? If so, was it only generated in Texas?

 

[Beekarina]

Brit here, so please forgive the ignorance - but wouldn't the witnesses have noted she had an out-of-state accent if she wasn't from around there? I'm rather good with accents, and the Texan accent sounds pretty distinctive to me.

One would think, but it also doesn't sound as though she said very much. If she was a bright girl, she may have thought to fake a drawl, or may have been "local-ish". It is possible the waitress may not have been local originally too, and didn't notice. Seems the kind of detail lost to us.

 

[Beekarina]

This case is close to my heart...I have followed it for quite sometime now.
So many things run through my head.....let's say she was local. That could explain the lack of a bag, change of clothes, toiletries, ect...but why then was she reported to be seen around 630 pm? Prisons have certain visiting hours. One would think if she lived in the area, she would have ventured out much earlier...unless she was having trouble finding a ride. Maybe the comment of WHO CARES comes from her frustration.
If traveling, again, where is personal belongings? What was her gameplan after leaving the prison....doesnt sound like she was prepared to go to a motel..or was she meeting someone there other than an inmate?
So many scenarios...

Hmm....I wonder if something had recently changed in her life? She may have been well-nourished and clean, good dentals etc because her family life, whatever it was, had been stable and then something happened. Her parents could have passed away. There could have been some crazy divorce/cheating/abandonment kind of thing. That would fit with "who cares" too. I had friends whose parents were normal, but then they split and the adults really seemed to lose their minds and basically were like, "You're on your own. I'm doing my own thing. Dad is a loser, good riddance. or "Mom left, time for you to grow up."

 

[Springrain]

Interesting.

I seem to remember discussions on Websleuths about it not being entirely reliable whether a woman had given birth or not as well? Perhaps someone reading knows what I'm talking about. It is early, and the coffee hasn't taken effect. Basically, it was another one of those "all bodies are a bit different" sort of things.

From what I know and the research I've done, when women give birth vaginally, grooves called parturition pits can form inside the pubic bone and don't form without the woman having given birth. And the pubic bones separate during labor/birth so the baby can pass through the vaginal canal, but that usually heals quickly after, to my understanding.

I mean, not necessarily. I'm a cis female in my very late teens and I've recently had people mistake me for a year 7 schoolkid - that's age 11-12 in the UK! Some of us just can't seem to get rid of the baby face

I was volunteering at an elementary school when I was 18/19 and called a Lyft to pick me up, and the driver accused me of being an actual elementary schooler trying to hitch a ride, even though I'm 5'8 and tattooed lol

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I've had a little sort-of-theory for a while now. Is it possible someone in that prison did know her - intimately, even - but denied any knowledge of her existence because she was underage and he wasn't? It's something that's been on my mind ever since I read that article (IIRC by a police officer involved with the case? wish I could find the link again) who said she told the witnesses she was looking for her "boyfriend".

Definitely, that's been a very common theory and it is one I believe. But I don't think she ever told anyone she was looking for her boyfriend.

Brit here, so please forgive the ignorance - but wouldn't the witnesses have noted she had an out-of-state accent if she wasn't from around there? I'm rather good with accents, and the Texan accent sounds pretty distinctive to me.

Honestly, I haven't spent much time in Texas, but when I was there, most Texans didn't really had a super strong accent and nobody thought twice about me sounding out of state with my Pacific Northwest accent. Which, to be fair, is pretty much a standard American accent lol.

 

[Nell91]

Apparently she looked dishevelled, 'as though she'd been sleeping in her clothes'.
If she was indeed from Aransas/Rockport as she stated, would this be a fair journey to Huntsville? One taking more than a day. Hope this makes sense, I'm from the UK and absolutely hopeless with geography!

 

[Sweetluv]

If an inmate was expecting her to come for a visit, and she never showed...and then they were showed a pic of a beaten deceased female, why would they deny not knowing her...they were behind bars so it's not like they could be a suspect. Even expecting a pen pal you never seen, one would THINK they would speak up.
Unless, it was a (surprise) visit and no one was expecting her..so maybe then she was unrecognizable in the pic.
Also, is anyone under 18 allowed to visit a prisoner without an adult present?

 

[Beekarina]

Apparently she looked dishevelled, 'as though she'd been sleeping in her clothes'.
If she was indeed from Aransas/Rockport as she stated, would this be a fair journey to Huntsville? One taking more than a day. Hope this makes sense, I'm from the UK and absolutely hopeless with geography!

I'm from New England, but have visited Texas several times. (Various roadtrips, etc.) If you pull up a map, and look at current suggested routes, an adult with a car would be able to drive between the two locations in 3-5 hours easily. A young teenager, hitchhiking and so on? Sleeping in her clothes seems reasonable.

I personally find the description a bit confusing. 'sleeping in her clothes' could mean she looked kind of rumpled--as in she had gone a day or two without a proper shower and change of clothes, OR it could mean she had been on the street and in those clothes for some time (i.e. a few weeks?), but was doing her best to "clean up."

IF she is local-ish, then she probably left wherever she came from fairly recently since she herself was in good condition. I could see an older teen, one who was street smart remaining healthy "on the road" for some time, but if she was really 14? Then she either left home days to a week prior, OR someone else had taken her in for a bit. I don't think a 14 year-old even back then would have done well hitching around on their own for any length of time.

 

[carbuff]

I'm from New England, but have visited Texas several times. (Various roadtrips, etc.) If you pull up a map, and look at current suggested routes, an adult with a car would be able to drive between the two locations in 3-5 hours easily. A young teenager, hitchhiking and so on? Sleeping in her clothes seems reasonable.

I personally find the description a bit confusing. 'sleeping in her clothes' could mean she looked kind of rumpled--as in she had gone a day or two without a proper shower and change of clothes, OR it could mean she had been on the street and in those clothes for some time (i.e. a few weeks?), but was doing her best to "clean up."

IF she is local-ish, then she probably left wherever she came from fairly recently since she herself was in good condition. I could see an older teen, one who was street smart remaining healthy "on the road" for some time, but if she was really 14? Then she either left home days to a week prior, OR someone else had taken her in for a bit. I don't think a 14 year-old even back then would have done well hitching around on their own for any length of time.

A third option: she had been asleep in the car and was looking hot and rumpled because she hadn't been able to freshen up yet.

 

[Friday Fan]

Apparently she looked dishevelled, 'as though she'd been sleeping in her clothes'.
If she was indeed from Aransas/Rockport as she stated, would this be a fair journey to Huntsville? One taking more than a day. Hope this makes sense, I'm from the UK and absolutely hopeless with geography!

5 hours if you have a ride.

She may have gotten several rides. However, I take pretty much what she said with a grain of salt....

She seemed pretty annoyed at the waitress..........

 

[Springrain]

If an inmate was expecting her to come for a visit, and she never showed...and then they were showed a pic of a beaten deceased female, why would they deny not knowing her...they were behind bars so it's not like they could be a suspect. Even expecting a pen pal you never seen, one would THINK they would speak up.
Unless, it was a (surprise) visit and no one was expecting her..so maybe then she was unrecognizable in the pic.
Also, is anyone under 18 allowed to visit a prisoner without an adult present?

IMO, it was because her "friend" was having a sexual and/or romantic relationship with an underage girl, and he didn't want that getting out. Yeah, he couldn't have done the murder, but knowing he was in a relationship with a 15ish-year-old girl would leave him in hot water with other inmates who wouldn't take kindly to that. IMO, this leaves out the possibility that she was visiting a family member because if she was visiting her dad or a brother, they would be fine identifying her and saying "Oh, that's my sister/daughter/cousin/whatever.... her name is X" without risking getting beaten or murdered.

I don't think so but I may be wrong, I don't think she had much awareness about the prison system and how to get in and visit. I guess she could have also tried to lie about her age to try to get in too.