Fencesitters & Not Guilty Post Here - THREAD NO. 2

[Rino]

That's why I said I don't know if its true. Let the reader make up their own mind. I try not to mislead other posters.

Are you sure?

One paragraph totally contradicts what you thought was important enough to quote in a 3 paragraph article.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article2473974.ece

Meanwhile, the official spokesman for the Polícia Judiciária has left the inquiry team. Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa has said that there was no need for a police spokesman as the case was now being handled by the office of the Public Prosecutor.

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The article also tells how the judge in the case has not asked for the McCanns to return to Portugal rather to be questioned instead by British police about the night their daughter disappeared from her Algarve holiday home.

Leicestershire police will be sent a list of all the questions that the Portuguese authorities want the McCanns to be asked, together with details of the related evidence, according to the Correio da Manhã newspaper.

 

[Texana]

Are you sure?

One paragraph totally contradicts what you thought was important enough to quote in a 3 paragraph article.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article2473974.ece

Meanwhile, the official spokesman for the Polícia Judiciária has left the inquiry team. Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa has said that there was no need for a police spokesman as the case was now being handled by the office of the Public Prosecutor.

-------------------------------------
The article also tells how the judge in the case has not asked for the McCanns to return to Portugal rather to be questioned instead by British police about the night their daughter disappeared from her Algarve holiday home.

Leicestershire police will be sent a list of all the questions that the Portuguese authorities want the McCanns to be asked, together with details of the related evidence, according to the Correio da Manhã newspaper.

Exactly Rino, the last paragraph gives a completely different slant to the story, and is the only paragraph that actually quotes a speaker by name. The other paragraphs refer to "stories."

 

[CaliKid]

I am bringing this post from one of our newbies over here because I think ny very ably puts into words how many of us feel.

There is no conclusive proof (yet) that the McCanns did it. There is no conclusive proof (yet) that there was an abduction. IF the McCanns did it, they are not victims, they are perpetrators. IF it was an abduction, the McCanns put her in harm's way by their own negligence/studpidity. While that doesn't excuse the abductor's actions/guilt, it doesn't change the fact that they failed to do their job as parents. Madeleine is the victim here, as are the twins. What if she had died in a fire or some other accident because she was left on her own? Would we be seeing them as victims then? And they have repeatedly justified that behavior, saying they were responsible parents. They had an opportunity to educate other people about how to keep their children safe, but they can't admit their own failure in this regard that they weren't responsible to leave 3 children under 4 alone in an unlocked hotel room where they couldn't see/hear them.

Given the lack of conclusive proof, people are going to look at their behavior such as the smiling. Or blogging about haircuts & jogging. Or releasing photos of one's own wedding/communion. Does any of that prove their guilt? No. Does it raise suspicions among many of us? Yes. To me, that seems more like people seeking publicity for its own sake or trying to win our sympathies, at best. At worst, it may be intended to distract our attention from their possible involvment. I was inclined to believe the parents' innocence at the beginning. But their behavior is leading me to doubt their innocence.

The police have to look at all the evidence, even if it might incriminate the parents. In fact, I think what the PJ did wrong was not considering all possibilities (parental involvement as well as abduction) from the start. That might have preserved evidence which may have either cleared or implicated the McCanns. Everyone at the resort should've been thoroughly interviewed.

So, I think the main question is what is the best way to bring Madeleine McCann home safe (if she's alive) or bring those responsible to justice if she isn't alive?

Apparently, the local police in the UK are going to ask her the 40 questions she wouldn't answer:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../wmaddy517.xml

That's a good start. I consider it reasonable to be nervous about answering questions in a foreign country where you don't understand the laws, but now she's home & it's the local police/legal system, she should be more co-operative. If not, that's very telling in and of itself.

 

[april4sky]

Have McCann Cops Gone Out On A Limb?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1284525,00.html

Portuguese police may have "gone out on a limb" by accusing Madeleine McCann's parents over her alleged death, Portuguese newspapers are speculating.

"There are suggestions, hint perhaps, in Portuguese media that, if the Portuguese police are wrong, they are going to be made to look very foolish."

 

[mrsmousemat]

"They may not have cried for the cameras, but to say they do not weep in private is facile and offensive.
"The man and woman I have known for the past four months are a couple whose lives have become unbearably empty because their little girl was missing. "I do not recognise those people in recent media reports, and I find the idea that they had anything to do with her disappearance just inconceivable.[/quote]

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Hello April4sky - still the voice of reason I see...

There is one reason why the McCanns have remained cool and slightly impassive during TV interviews.

If they believed that their child was taken by a paedophile they would have been advised to show as little emotion as possible.

Apparently if they showed anger, it would anger the paedophile who has control of their daughter, and if they showed distress it would please him/her as it's apparently a control/power thing.

Sadly even impassioned pleases do not seem to help much. A recent case where a child was shot in Britain and where the parents made very impassioned pleas for witnesses has resulted in none coming forward.

So it doesn't seeem that even very distraught pleas by parents who have lost their children make much difference, which, I feel, is find particularly sad.

 

[docwho3]

Have McCann Cops Gone Out On A Limb?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1284525,00.html

Portuguese police may have "gone out on a limb" by accusing Madeleine McCann's parents over her alleged death, Portuguese newspapers are speculating.

"There are suggestions, hint perhaps, in Portuguese media that, if the Portuguese police are wrong, they are going to be made to look very foolish."

I remember that just before all the big developments hit the fan in this case I had posted to the effect that I was going out on a limb and show some faith in the L.E. both Portuguese and Brit and I remember that someone posted in response that did not seem like I was really going out on a limb much. I wonder if that poster still thinks that way. (Smiling to myself over that one. It turned out to be a thinner limb than it seemed.)

Still I am yet holding out hope that no matter how many really strange twists and turns this case takes (and I believe more are yet to come) the truth will eventually be known.

 

[Shazza]

"They may not have cried for the cameras, but to say they do not weep in private is facile and offensive.
"The man and woman I have known for the past four months are a couple whose lives have become unbearably empty because their little girl was missing. "I do not recognise those people in recent media reports, and I find the idea that they had anything to do with her disappearance just inconceivable.

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Hello April4sky - still the voice of reason I see...

There is one reason why the McCanns have remained cool and slightly impassive during TV interviews.

If they believed that their child was taken by a paedophile they would have been advised to show as little emotion as possible.

Apparently if they showed anger, it would anger the paedophile who has control of their daughter, and if they showed distress it would please him/her as it's apparently a control/power thing.

Sadly even impassioned pleases do not seem to help much. A recent case where a child was shot in Britain and where the parents made very impassioned pleas for witnesses has resulted in none coming forward.

So it doesn't seeem that even very distraught pleas by parents who have lost their children make much difference, which, I feel, is find particularly sad.[/quote]
Could you please tell me where it has been said by any posters that the McCanns do not cry in private. We dont know what goes on behing closed doors, and I do not recall anyone saying what you are implying in the bolded statement made by you.

 

[april4sky]

I respectfully disagree w/this statement.

I believe there is 1 known fact, the McCanns left their very young children unattended for a period of time, on more than one occasion, which contributed to whatever happened to Maddie. They are guilty of that. They are guilty of getting this whole ball rolling, whether they are resposbile for her death, if she is dead, I can't say, but there is most certianly one proven fact and it makes them NOT innocent IMO. (still swaying on the fence about the rest of it, back and forth, to and fro, until we know what the real evidence is)

Christine, I agree the McCanns are guilty of leaving their children. I have never denied that and I have said it time and again on here.

Beyond that though I am not on the fence.
I believe they are innocent, and until, and if it's proven differently I will continue to believe it.
I have yet to hear any confirmed "evidence" against them. All we have had are rumors and inuendo and smears. Usually via PLE leaks.

And the more I hear of the tactics of the PLE and their calculated leaks the less trust I have in them.
Especially now that we hear Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral the detective handling the Madeleine case is under investigation himself about the torture of Leonor Cipriano the mother of another missing little girl.

 

[april4sky]

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Could you please tell me where it has been said by any posters that the McCanns do not cry in private. We dont know what goes on behing closed doors, and I do not recall anyone saying what you are implying in the bolded statement made by you.

Hi Shazza,

Those were not my words Shazza.
I'm not guilty :silenced: That statement is from the following interesting article.

A different view, "near the bottom of the article", of the McCanns. And a lot more believable than the usual critical view IMO. The Rev Haynes has been with them many times since Madeleine disapeared.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...page_id=181 1


Rev Hubbard Haynes, the Anglican vicar who lives in Praia da Luz and got closer to the McCanns than anyone during their months in Portugal.

A young, passionate Canadian, who took up his post a week after Madeleine's disappearance said.

"All I can say is that my tears are as nothing to the tears I have seen shed by Kate and Gerry.
"They may not have cried for the cameras, but to say they do not weep in private is facile and offensive.
"The man and woman I have known for the past four months are a couple whose lives have become unbearably empty because their little girl was missing. "I do not recognise those people in recent media reports, and I find the idea that they had anything to do with her disappearance just inconceivable.

 

[Shazza]

Hi Shazza,

Those were not my words Shazza.
I'm not guilty :silenced: That statement is from the following interesting article.

A different view, "near the bottom of the article", of the McCanns. And a lot more believable than the usual critical view IMO. The Rev Haynes has been with them many times since Madeleine disapeared.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...page_id=181 1


Rev Hubbard Haynes, the Anglican vicar who lives in Praia da Luz and got closer to the McCanns than anyone during their months in Portugal.

A young, passionate Canadian, who took up his post a week after Madeleine's disappearance said.

"All I can say is that my tears are as nothing to the tears I have seen shed by Kate and Gerry.
"They may not have cried for the cameras, but to say they do not weep in private is facile and offensive.
"The man and woman I have known for the past four months are a couple whose lives have become unbearably empty because their little girl was missing. "I do not recognise those people in recent media reports, and I find the idea that they had anything to do with her disappearance just inconceivable.

Hi April, I was quoting mrsmousemat, but thankyou for the link.

 

[april4sky]

Hello April4sky - still the voice of reason I see...

There is one reason why the McCanns have remained cool and slightly impassive during TV interviews.

If they believed that their child was taken by a paedophile they would have been advised to show as little emotion as possible.

Apparently if they showed anger, it would anger the paedophile who has control of their daughter, and if they showed distress it would please him/her as it's apparently a control/power thing.

Sadly even impassioned pleases do not seem to help much. A recent case where a child was shot in Britain and where the parents made very impassioned pleas for witnesses has resulted in none coming forward.

So it doesn't seeem that even very distraught pleas by parents who have lost their children make much difference, which, I feel, is find particularly sad.

Hi mrsmousemat. Nice to see you posting again.

I had read the McCann's were advised in the beginning not to show too much emotion in their TV interviews.
And even though they were in an emotional state they knew they couldn't let themselves fall apart as this wouldn't help Madeleine.
------------
The case of that little boy being shot dead in Liverpool recently is very sad.
I suspect the police probably know who did it but can't yet prove it.
There are just so many gangs now that people are afraid to speak out.
Sadly it will just keep getting worse until enough of the public decide they've had enough.

 

[ny_]

I had read the McCann's were advised in the beginning not to show too much emotion in their TV interviews.

I don't expect them to cry for the public/cameras as proof of innocence because, in addition to whatever advice they may have been given, everyone handles the intense emotions this would bring out differently. Some people get stoic, some people go on autopilot, etc.

What strikes me as odd is the smiling. Now I can understand smiling with the twins, it's probably the only solace they have now & I wouldn't begrudge them that. But there seems to be an awful lot of smiling in addition to that (e.g. while holding a shirt with her photo, meeting dignitaries, in cars, etc.). As I said in another thread, maybe it's a nervous reaction of some sort. Does it make them guilty? Not in and of itself. But it is odd and it does make me wonder. As well as all of the publicity seeking unrelated to getting Madeline's image out there (for example, the McCanns releasing their wedding photos & photos of family images on Sunday).

 

[april4sky]

Hi April, I was quoting mrsmousemat, but thankyou for the link.

Your welcome.
My fault sorry, I thought you were asking me. :waitasec:

 

[Shazza]

I don't expect them to cry for the public/cameras as proof of innocence because, in addition to whatever advice they may have been given, everyone handles the intense emotions this would bring out differently. Some people get stoic, some people go on autopilot, etc.

What strikes me as odd is the smiling. Now I can understand smiling with the twins, it's probably the only solace they have now & I wouldn't begrudge them that. But there seems to be an awful lot of smiling in addition to that (e.g. while holding a shirt with her photo, meeting dignitaries, in cars, etc.). As I said in another thread, maybe it's a nervous reaction of some sort. Does it make them guilty? Not in and of itself. But it is odd and it does make me wonder. As well as all of the publicity seeking unrelated to getting Madeline's image out there (for example, the McCanns releasing their wedding photos & photos of family images on Sunday).

Thats right ny, smiling is an emotion, they seem to smile a lot when doing something that really doesnt help Madelaine, then while being interviewed or photos taken whilst on all their journeys they are smiling again, they obviously enjoy the camera being on them when it suits them.

 

[ny_]

Correction/clarification, to my previous post, the images of family members were for the most part other family members, such as the parents/grandparents. The only ones of Madeleine they released on Sunday were either older ones where she was younger & looked a little different or ones which had already been relased. People have limited attention spans and they're only going to absorb so much, so that's why I think they should've limited any photo release to current ones of her (or as someone suggested, sorry, I forgot who or I'd note it) composites of what she might look like with a changed appearance. Her image is needed in the public focus to bring her back (if she has been abducted). Not her parents, not her grandparents.

 

[april4sky]

I don't expect them to cry for the public/cameras as proof of innocence because, in addition to whatever advice they may have been given, everyone handles the intense emotions this would bring out differently. Some people get stoic, some people go on autopilot, etc.

What strikes me as odd is the smiling. Now I can understand smiling with the twins, it's probably the only solace they have now & I wouldn't begrudge them that. But there seems to be an awful lot of smiling in addition to that (e.g. while holding a shirt with her photo, meeting dignitaries, in cars, etc.). As I said in another thread, maybe it's a nervous reaction of some sort. Does it make them guilty? Not in and of itself. But it is odd and it does make me wonder. As well as all of the publicity seeking unrelated to getting Madeline's image out there (for example, the McCanns releasing their wedding photos & photos of family images on Sunday).

Hello ny,
I agree that everyone handles their emotions differently. I think photo's can be very misleading too. They are bound to be seen smiling occasionally. It doesn't mean they are not heartbroken.
And we don't know if it was the McCann's themselves...At least I don't...who released the recent photo's. It could have been family members or friends of theirs.

 

[SleuthMom]

they obviously enjoy the camera being on them when it suits them.

To me is odd they like the "camera" period - They are not celebrities. Having a MISSING child and liking the camera as much as they do, says a lot about someone. It does NOT make them murderers (we all agree with that) but heck is disgusting!

 

[Shazza]

Your welcome.
My fault sorry, I thought you were asking me. :waitasec:

No worries I wasnt having a go at you, my post was was kind of right next to what mrsmousemat was writing to you. I should have spaced it better.

 

[ny_]

And we don't know if it was the McCann's themselves...At least I don't...who released the recent photo's. It could have been family members or friends of theirs.

The link I saw on Sunday The Times indicated the family had released those photos. It's towards the middle of the middle column of this link:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/system/topicRoot/Madeleine/

The text by the link says:

The McCanns today released new family photos to keep hunt for Madeleine alive

While it doesn't specify which McCanns, I found at least 2 references to Kate & Gerry McCann in a couple of other publications:

http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_hea...objectid=19798129&siteid=93463-name_page.html

Kate and Gerry McCann yesterday [Sunday] released previously unseen family photos, including one of their wedding day.
The couple are seen looking ecstatic at their ceremony in 1998. With huge beaming smiles they are seen cuddling their baby god-daughter, Ellie.
Other photos show them together at a pal's wedding and Gerry with close friend Linda McQueen at her wedding. The McCanns also released a favourite photo of Madeleine, taken in 2005 when she was two years old.​

It shows the blonde youngster smiling broadly and holding on to a blue scarf around her neck.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/09/17/maddy-judge-let-me-speak-89520-19800944/

The McCanns yesterday [Sunday] released pictures [one of the series] of Kate's parents Brian and Sue Healy and Gerry's sister Trisha Cameron reading some of the 1,000 letters of support arriving daily.​

As for smiling, if it were the odd photo here or there, that would be one thing. But there's more than the odd photo here & there. Again, it may be a nervous reaction, but that does seem to counter any advice they've been giving about showing emotion.
​

 

[april4sky]

As for smiling, if it were the odd photo here or there, that would be one thing. But there's more than the odd photo here & there. Again, it may be a nervous reaction, but that does seem to counter any advice they've been giving about showing emotion.​

Hi ny,

I really don't see what the big deal is if they did release the photo's. They may have been advised to by their PR person. "Who they definately need to try to give some balance to all the rumors and smears" and show them in a different light as they have been demonised for a while now.

And as for being critical of them smiling too much.
I would rather believe "who" they really are from someone who has spent a lot of time with them since Madeleine went missing. The Rev Haynes.

A different view, "near the bottom of the article", of the McCanns. And a lot more believable than the usual critical view.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...page_id=181 1


Rev Hubbard Haynes, the Anglican vicar who lives in Praia da Luz and got closer to the McCanns than anyone during their months in Portugal.

A young, passionate Canadian, who took up his post a week after Madeleine's disappearance said.

"All I can say is that my tears are as nothing to the tears I have seen shed by Kate and Gerry.
"They may not have cried for the cameras, but to say they do not weep in private is facile and offensive.
"The man and woman I have known for the past four months are a couple whose lives have become unbearably empty because their little girl was missing. "I do not recognise those people in recent media reports, and I find the idea that they had anything to do with her disappearance just inconceivable.