SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021

[stattlich1]

A shotgun can shoot a slug (a big fat hunk of solid lead), it can shoot buck shot (several lead bb's of various size) and what I'll term regular shotgun shot, which is of varying size, smaller pellets than buckshot, (think something akin to the size of turnip seed, more or less depending on shot size) and provides a wide pattern.

So, a shotgun can require rather precise aim, in the case of using a slug, or can be aimed with less precision, and still hit a target, if using regular shot.

Shotguns are normally use for closer hunting scenarios, waterfowl, small game, etc. but with slugs can be used for hunting larger game, even bear and moose, etc. (but are not anywhere near as accurate as rifles at long distances)

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The AR-15 normally uses 5.56 ammunition (or .223) but sometimes is configured to shoot other calibers. It is a high powered rifle that is accurate at long distances and used in military and civilian applications.

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[taylorss]

A shotgun can shoot a slug (a big fat hunk of solid lead), it can shoot buck shot (several lead bb's of various size) and what I'll term regular shotgun shot, which is of varying size, smaller pellets than buckshot, (think something akin to the size of turnip seed, more or less depending on shot size) and provides a wide pattern.

So, a shotgun can require rather precise aim, in the case of using a slug, or can be aimed with less precision, and still hit a target, if using regular shot.

Shotguns are normally use for closer hunting scenarios, waterfowl, small game, etc. but with slugs can be used for hunting larger game, even bear and moose, etc. (but are not anywhere near as accurate as rifles at long distances)

Shotgun Ammo at Ammo.com: Cheap Shotgun Ammo in Bulk

The AR-15 normally uses 5.56 ammunition (or .223) but sometimes is configured to shoot other calibers. It is a high powered rifle that is accurate at long distances and used in military and civilian applications.

5.56x45mm Ammo at Ammo.com: Cheap 5.56 Ammo in Bulk

Thanks, that is so helpful!!
Would it be accurate to surmise then that a “rifle,” the weapon used on the mom MM, was a “cooler” gun - more the type that a gun enthusiast would reach for if given the option? It seems clearly more accurate & powerful, so I presume harder to get & thus has more cache among EG rappers, young male war LARPers etc ?

while the “shotgun” with which son PM was killed is a more ‘grab out the woodshed when you see a raccoon’ type? as in what many people in rural environments simply have lying around & not something with a “cool factor” like the rifle?

 

[Bridger]

Can anyone shed some light on the difference bet the guns used on son PM & on mom MM? One a “shotgun” the other a “rifle” - are either of these EG more accurate from close range / long range? more difficult to aim or fire? Either of them more commonly used in homicide for some reason & the other more commonly used for hunting? Etc

Both shotguns and rifles are extremely unusual murder weapons. Of all firearm-related murders, rifles accounted for about 3% in 2010 according to Wikipedia.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

Both shotguns and rifles are extremely unusual murder weapons. Of all firearm-related murders, rifles accounted for about 3% in 2010 according to Wikipedia.

Has it been made clear yet whether the shootings were (a) indoors, or (b) in the same room or area/immediate vicinity? Shotguns and rifles are weird guns to use indoors.

 

[stmarysmead]

<modsnip>

Just MOO speculation- maybe there was a reason for the family to be assembling there around 9/10pm? EG (from my imagination) a bunch of cranky raccoons were bothering the family dog & they wanted to shoot them so they were meeting there to get their guns? Son is out preparing, mom either participating or just hanging out, & when dad shows up for the plan he finds his family murdered. ??? Just a creative writing exercise here I admit, trying to imagine why mom, son & dad all could’ve appeared on this piece of land that night.

Can anyone shed some light on the difference bet the guns used on son PM & on mom MM? One a “shotgun” the other a “rifle” - are either of these EG more accurate from close range / long range? more difficult to aim or fire? Either of them more commonly used in homicide for some reason & the other more commonly used for hunting? Etc

I have seen pictures of some of these SC ‘hunting lodges’ in the area (some are for rent) ….and they can be quit palatial. They are more like lovely vacation homes with ponds and acres of hunting grounds….everything an hunting enthusiast could want. My guess is that this would have been that sort of place…rustic but done with a big budget.

There is do little information and my sense is that most of the media is guessing too. But my guess is that this ‘hunting lodge’ was a summer home. In the articles about the boat accident, frequent mention is made of an ‘island’ that is also family owned where a clam bake was held at the beginning of that tragic evening. Not sure if there’s a home there too?

 

[stmarysmead]

Ou

Has it been made clear yet whether the shootings were (a) indoors, or (b) in the same room or area/immediate vicinity? Shotguns and rifles are weird guns to use indoors.

Outdoors by a dog kennel…in several of posted articles above.

 

[taylorss]

Both shotguns and rifles are extremely unusual murder weapons. Of all firearm-related murders, rifles accounted for about 3% in 2010 according to Wikipedia.

Interesting! ……. but …. so what are these types of weapons used for if not murders?

I’ll guess - please correct if wrong! - a shotgun is primarily used for hunting & defense - against EG a bear who might be scared off by the sound even if not hit and/or a person who will spot it easily since big & be scared off by the sight even if not hit

whereas a rifle is primarily used for …. what exactly? War ? Riot control, where the display of huge firepower can move crowds ?

What are the usual circumstances in which a person finds himself struck by a round from a rifle?
Or are they rarely fired beyond practice & mostly just displayed to send the message of firepower? as in they’re mostly encountered not as weapons causing injury, but in the hands of SWAT teams & rappers/school shooters?

all SPECULATION by me here, looking for corrections on what I have wrong …. it hardly needs saying that i know nothing of guns haha, does it.

 

[Bridger]

whereas a rifle is primarily used for …. what exactly? War ? Riot control, where the display of huge firepower can move crowds ?

I’m no firearm expert either, but I know, in general, rifles are used for bigger game like deer. Rifles and shotguns are both hunting weapons.

 

[taylorss]

I’m no firearm expert either, but I know, in general, rifles are used for bigger game like deer. Rifles and shotguns are both hunting weapons.

ahh interesting, thanks - so neither weapon was out of place for the location then

 

[stattlich1]

I wouldn't make any assumptions relative to the long guns used here. The AR15 is a semi automatic rifle, in the right hands and set up properly accurate to 400-600 yards, and some times even further. They can be used for hunting in certain areas of the U.S. They are also a very popular home defense weapon.

The shotgun comes in a multitude of different calibers and configurations, and indeed is used for both hunting, and home defense. Smaller shotgun setups are used for dove, quail, small game, etc. There are areas of greater population density where a shotgun, with a slug, is used for hunting larger game like white tailed deer. The shotgun's range is not as far as the rifle.

Unless I'm mistaken, we have no idea who these firearms belonged to, who used them, from what distance/range, and/or what caliber.

For me, I do find it unusual two guns were used in this scenario. Several possibilities exist in my conjecturing mind. One of the guns belonged to the killer, the other to one of the deceased. One of the guns failed to fire after the first murder, and a second was retrieved. Maybe one of the victims was murdered by the shotgun, and when the killer was departing, he/she decided to murder the other victim, using the rifle from a greater distance away. Maybe there were two killers, each with a weapon. Nobody knows, it's all speculation.

For this family, appearing to be avid hunters and outdoors types, having literally dozens of differing handguns, rifles, and shotguns, along with all associated items for use, including beaucoup ammunition, would not be anything out of the ordinary in the U.S.

As a final note, shotguns are very often used in sport clay shooting, and other sporting events in the U.S., and not used for hunting at all. It all depends on the intended use by the owner.

 

[Inthedetails]

I wouldn't make any assumptions relative to the long guns used here. The AR15 is a semi automatic rifle, in the right hands and set up properly accurate to 400-600 yards, and some times even further. They can be used for hunting in certain areas of the U.S. They are also a very popular home defense weapon.

The shotgun comes in a multitude of different calibers and configurations, and indeed is used for both hunting, and home defense. Smaller shotgun setups are used for dove, quail, small game, etc. There are areas of greater population density where a shotgun, with a slug, is used for hunting larger game like white tailed deer. The shotgun's range is not as far as the rifle.

Unless I'm mistaken, we have no idea who these firearms belonged to, who used them, from what distance/range, and/or what caliber.

For me, I do find it unusual two guns were used in this scenario. Several possibilities exist in my conjecturing mind. One of the guns belonged to the killer, the other to one of the deceased. One of the guns failed to fire after the first murder, and a second was retrieved. Maybe one of the victims was murdered by the shotgun, and when the killer was departing, he/she decided to murder the other victim, using the rifle from a greater distance away. Maybe there were two killers, each with a weapon. Nobody knows, it's all speculation.

For this family, appearing to be avid hunters and outdoors types, having literally dozens of differing handguns, rifles, and shotguns, along with all associated items for use, including beaucoup ammunition, would not be anything out of the ordinary in the U.S.

As a final note, shotguns are very often used in sport clay shooting, and other sporting events in the U.S., and not used for hunting at all. It all depends on the intended use by the owner.

Could the two weapons have been used to make it look like two perps committed the killings rather than one single individual?

jmo

 

[Starkville]

JMO, but I’m curious as to why Paul was not named in the civil suit brought by Renee Beach, as a party responsible for her daughter’s death.

He was driving the boat, and was over the age of 18 at the time.

Paul’s older brother was one party (of many) named in the suit.

Scratching my head at this.

 

[stmarysmead]

Could the two weapons have been used to make it look like two perps committed the killings rather than one single individual?

jmo

Good discussion question. I’ve been trying to work this out as well.
I’m stymied because the two bodies were found close together…unless they were moved. Because if one was shot with the first gun…maybe Paul…would the other victim just stay there, while the killer got another gun?

 

[stmarysmead]

JMO, but I’m curious as to why Paul was not named in the civil suit brought by Renee Beach, as a party responsible for her daughter’s death.

He was driving the boat, and was over the age of 18 at the time.

Paul’s older brother was one party (of many) named in the suit.

Scratching my head at this.

Maybe they were waiting till after the criminal trial? Is there a statute of limitations?

 

[stattlich1]

Could the two weapons have been used to make it look like two perps committed the killings rather than one single individual?

jmo

Sure. I think that's a reasonable thing to speculate upon

Murder at any time, in any circumstance, by any means, is a horror. IMO, shooting someone with a shotgun at close distance is a very personal killing. Shooting someone with a rifle, in my speculating mind, would likely not be in as close a proximity to the person, as a shotgun. Normally, rifles are longer distance, shotguns are closer distance firearms, but in this case, we just don't know the facts. Either gun will kill a person, whether from 3 feet away, or 50 yards (depending on what the shotgun is loaded with).

The shotgun loses accuracy with distance, whereas the rifle can be accurate much further away.

 

[stattlich1]

Good discussion question. I’ve been trying to work this out as well.
I’m stymied because the two bodies were found close together…unless they were moved. Because if one was shot with the first gun…maybe Paul…would the other victim just stay there, while the killer got another gun?

All speculation on my part. Totally speculation.

A killer could have murdered victim one with shotgun, and victim two was not around. Upon departing, the killer is seen by victim two, who is going to assist victim one, and upon the killers identity being possibly made by victim two, the killer retrieves the rifle and kills victim two from a distance.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

<modsnip>

where on earth then did the story of AM out shooting at 10 pm come from? Why even were mom & son at the hunting property at 9/9:30 at night?

Just MOO speculation- maybe there was a reason for the family to be assembling there around 9/10pm? EG (from my imagination) a bunch of cranky raccoons were bothering the family dog & they wanted to shoot them so they were meeting there to get their guns? Son is out preparing, mom either participating or just hanging out, & when dad shows up for the plan he finds his family murdered. ??? Just a creative writing exercise here I admit, trying to imagine why mom, son & dad all could’ve appeared on this piece of land that night.

Can anyone shed some light on the difference bet the guns used on son PM & on mom MM? One a “shotgun” the other a “rifle” - are either of these EG more accurate from close range / long range? more difficult to aim or fire? Either of them more commonly used in homicide for some reason & the other more commonly used for hunting? Etc

I absolutely do not believe the Daily Mail’s story that says AM’s alibi was that he was out hunting when the murders occurred.

 

[Knox]

Two victims, near each other, killed with two different weapons.

I am having a hard time imagining this scenario with just one shooter. The victims were not restrained to our knowledge. In the moments after the first killing, as this shooter decided (for whatever reason) to change guns, certainly the other victim could have fled…at least some distance… from the first scene of the crime.

On another topic, I find the details of the way the boating death case against Paul was handled…disturbing. Was there a general feeling, correct or not, among some in the local community that this family…who had prosecuted so many for decades…using the letter of the law…would not be held to their own standard? If so, that would really widen the suspect field.

These are my thoughts as well.

I don't feel AM is going to have any involvement with the deaths, too obvious even for this powerfully connected family. Wasn't there a hearing scheduled or held a few days prior to June 7th when Maggie & Paul were killed? I read that somewhere but don't remember where, so take that as unconfirmed.

Someone may have been convinced justice would never be served and decided to take it into their own hands, JMO. Add- Paul was not a party to the civil case filed by the Beach family. So killing him would not effect the case, it only closes the criminal filing. Maggie would be killed because she could identify the shooter(s).

 

[clearskies1]

JMO, but I’m curious as to why Paul was not named in the civil suit brought by Renee Beach, as a party responsible for her daughter’s death.

He was driving the boat, and was over the age of 18 at the time.

Paul’s older brother was one party (of many) named in the suit.

Scratching my head at this.

It does seem odd. Given that the brother and father may potentially be held civilly liable for Paul's alleged drunken boating, the lawsuit obviously could cause deep fractures in the Murdaugh family. Speculation. JMO.

 

[Knox]

I'm hesitant to take DailyMail's reporting as accurate.

Was Paul shot twice or did one bullet inflict injuries in two places, his chest and head?

My first hunch in this case is murder-suicide, but that doesn't work if Paul was shot twice. (I would imagine the mother as a victim in murder-suicide, not the perp.)

Is there definitive info about the number of shots fired/injuries?

jmo

4:40 p.m.: Sources familiar with the investigation confirm that one avenue investigators are pursuing is the likelihood that Paul Murdaugh was targeted, while his mother was killed because she was there by happenstance. Paul was shot in the head and upper body with a shotgun, while Maggie Murdaugh was killed with what appears to be an assault rifle, the sources say.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/state/south-carolina/article252074163.html