PA - Ellen Greenberg, 27, Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing, ruled suicide but possible homicide, Jan 2011

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Bumping this post because there are still no answers for the parents...or rather, there are answers that people are ignoring completely. Her fiancé Sam, called his attorney uncle and his dad before calling 911. He said he came back from the gym in their building but was wearing boots (though its possible he left sneakers in a locker of some kind) He said the security guard of the building was with him when he kicked the door down, but the security guard said he was not with him. Also there are tons of ways to un/lock bar locks (like you see at hotels). Anyone find out anything more on this?
 
Lemonslush said:
Bumping this post because there are still no answers for the parents...or rather, there are answers that people are ignoring completely. Her fiancé Sam, called his attorney uncle and his dad before calling 911. He said he came back from the gym in their building but was wearing boots (though its possible he left sneakers in a locker of some kind) He said the security guard of the building was with him when he kicked the door down, but the security guard said he was not with him. Also there are tons of ways to un/lock bar locks (like you see at hotels). Anyone find out anything more on this?
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The scene was staged. The broken door lock was also staged.
 
New information suggests young fiancée found stabbed 20 times did NOT search online for suicide [EXCLUSIVE]

Due to search queries on her computer, authorities reaffirmed that suicide was Ellen’s cause of death. Search inquiries such as “quick suicide” and “painless suicide” were reportedly found on Ellen’s hard-drive.

Joshua Greenberg told CrimeOnline that an attorney the family retained for the case, Joseph Podrazza, uncovered through a technology expert that there was no evidence that Ellen made specific queries about suicide.

“NO evidence on the hard-drive of viable suicide or death-related searches demonstrating obsession about either topic,” Podrazza wrote. “Our expert states that the ‘searches’ identified by OAG were not direct searches but instead phantom searches which appear because of analytics, etc. ”

“Upon closer examination Ellen did not directly access these links. When you separate the wheat (eg, Ellen’s actual searches) from the chaff (eg, phantom searches which appear on Ellen’s search history but were not due to direct searches by her), there is no indication of obsession by Ellen over death or suicide. To the contrary, she was searching for information about the medication, such as weight gain, sleepiness, etc;”

Joshua explained that his daughter was taking medication for anxiety and searched online about the side effects, which brought up searches about suicide. Joshua added that his daughter was seeing a therapist at the time because she was overwhelmed at school and with the upcoming wedding, but her therapist noted that Ellen was in no way suicidal.

“She was searching for medication and weight gain,” Joshua said.

Podrazza said that despite numerous requests to the Office of the Attorney General, he never received a copy of law enforcement’s forensic computer analysis. Then, in the fall of 2020, he obtained a copy of the FBI’s report from the Department of Justice, with “a notation in PPD’s records [which] indicated that no findings were made following the FBI’s review.”
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I just saw this case for the first time and am stunned at the ME conclusion of suicide (after changing it from homicide)-- It is another case (like Rebecca Zahau) where you just cannot wrap your head around how any intelligent rational medical professional who does this for a living, could come to this conclusion. This case is another that represents a travesty of justice: I can only hope that someday soon there is justice for this young woman and her grieving family.
 
This happened only a few blocks from my home, i can tell you that several veteran investigators worked that case, and in Philly "veteran" means they are very experienced.

The case, is very odd, which makes it hard to surmise it might have been a suicide, that doesnt mean it IS a suicide, it means barring any further evidence it appears to have been so .

That could change in the presence of more or new evidence .
 
Briblue said:
It's not a suicide. Obviously, that HUGE gash on the back of her head would have knocked her out. This is a love/hate crime!!
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I just saw this again and find myself really angry with lazy police - yes lazy-- not all police are Joe Kenda- think about it- the cops have a large case load- lots of cases to investigate- if they can make a quick decision- yeah ok this is suicide- without thorough investigation, some will do it: there was no real investigation into this case. No Luminol was used---- and a coroner who took the word of the police -and without much thought ruled this case a suicide. There are too many people (police and MEs) who looked at this case and said no way is this a suicide- said the situation looked staged, for me to believe this was a suicide. All of those knife wounds- some of which the experts felt could not have been self-inflicted. What a shame: It seems to me they will never re-open this case. I feel badly for her parents. RIP Ellen you deserve so much better.
 
This is hard to accept as a suicide because of the multiple shallow stab wounds on the front and back of her body. Still, it is would be an equally unusual murder and it makes no sense a a staged suicide. If you are going to murder someone and make it look like a suicide, you make it look like a suicide.

The locked door latch is a significant clue. Is it even possible to do it from the outside? If it is, it must have required a lot of planning and practice. If the husband worked hard to develop a system for locking the the latch, it would strongly suggest that the staged suicide was planned. If it was, why wasn’t the murder staged more convincingly like a suicide?

I am inclined to believe it was suicide as long as it was physically possible for her to have inflicted those injuries on herself.
 
KCmetwo said:
A few of the stab wounds that were in her head (ouch) were debilitating wounds, they would have prevented her from continuing what she was doing, she wouldn't have been able to continue stabbing herself, meaning she wouldn't have been able to plunge the knife into her chest.

Does anyone else find it odd that the hubby to be had a new woman move in like 6 months later, OR the fact that his Daddy is a high power Attorney??

Also, NOTE that one the Autopsy that the "expert" doesn't remember looking at that case AT ALL and it is memo-ed on there and highlighted if I remember correctly.[/QU
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Cottonstar said:
Looking to talk with an expert or someone who really knows the facts of this case. Please pm me.
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Tighthead said:
Can anyone recommend a podcast on this one?
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Yes, here is a PODCAST I found last night from iHEART radio featuring Ellen's Mom. She explains the day leading up to and after that fatal day. I have to say clearly this was NOT A SUICIDE as we all know--- it's INJUSTICE at its best. It's another travesty of justice where Sam's uncle was already on the case even before her parents knew their daughter was murdered. Below is the podcast where you will find just that. You will see that Sam informed his family, his uncle an attorney and others of Power from there on out. Ellen's Mom states that Ellen's phone laptops and purse were taken from the scene and returned days later. Sam's family had those items for 3 days and finally returned. Obviously, Vital Information was erased! She also states that the street cameras (tapes) and Building sign-in Book disappeared or cannot be retrieved- shows that they are clearly hiding vital info. and someone(s) was there THAT DAY- that's what I TRULY FEEL!!! SOMEONE SHORTER- just sayin. Building sign- in book was removed =someone was most likely there. I feel that when Ellen CAME HOME EARLY THAT DAY- someone else was there ( hence 2 sets of knives from the front and others from the back) Maybe the taller person was striking from behind and the slightly shorter person from the front- I'm guessing from PIX. Was the clean white towel in her hand laced with some kind of pass out liquid( hence no noises that day) Did they come up from behind her? There was too much blood to clean up-- there had to be more than 1 person. I feel since she told one of her friends that she was afraid that her psych would say something from her 3 visits just weeks before she was killed. Ellen did have an appointment just that next day. She also told her parents she wanted to move home. I surmise that she knew something was going on and was probably going to say something very very soon and that SOMEONE was not about to let that happen- at all costs! Again, remember the sign-in and cameras or tapes are gone! Clearly, she had proof since her purse, phone and laptop(s) disappeared and clearly vital info erased from those pieces. Changing her murder to suicide is a very convenient way to hide vital info all these years. If it had been changed years ago to Homicide , Private Investigators could have retrieved those items --and find info- it's been too long. Have people been paid off? Have some of those items, I just listed, and their history just disappear many years later, CONVENIENTLY? Ellen KNEW something, saw something, and was about to open up about it and clearly that person or person's were not about to let that happen! This case needs to be solved for Ellen and her Family!! Please, please listen to the PODCAST BELOW. Someone knows something---

a Episode 25: Ellen Greenberg: Suicide or homicide? - Catch my Killer | iHeartRadio

<modsnip>

What I meant is that they clearly wanted to write it off as a suicide and that it was very convenient to say so. Clearly, it was a homicide.
 
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