Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #14

[Dotta]

Gosh, yes, the no-sleep-plus-crazy-driving does sound like it could be a manic episode. The police need to tighten up their vetting policies. It's pretty hard to get a shotgun licence in this country - there are a lot of checks in place. One would hope the police might be even more thorough than that and ensure that armed officers are not suffering from fragile mental health

It might not have been noticable but his condition might have deepened in pandemic. Just MO.

 

[infinit]

Gosh, yes, the no-sleep-plus-crazy-driving does sound like it could be a manic episode. The police need to tighten up their vetting policies. It's pretty hard to get a shotgun licence in this country - there are a lot of checks in place. One would hope the police might be even more thorough than that and ensure that armed officers are not suffering from fragile mental health

It get says a lot, but I never really see a suggestion of how it could be done?

He clearly didn't have a history of bipolar/other mental illness in his medical records or he'd have been likely denied into the Police and probably even more so wouldn't have got security clearance. If you've got a non-diagnosed mental health condition with no interactions with medical services and the person declines to disclose anything and their character references say they're great then it's very hard.

He got moved to firearms so he clearly was able to mingle and act the part around other police officers or he'd not have got his peers and supervisors support for applying to it.

 

[nothinonyou]

From what we know I think it's likely he took up his job as a police man specifically with something like this in mind. He hasn't been long in this position and ties in with indecent exposure as far back as 2015. Seems he was a ticking time bomb and a career like this allowed him to exert power and especially power over women

 

[Dotta]

It get says a lot, but I never really see a suggestion of how it could be done?

He clearly didn't have a history of bipolar/other mental illness in his medical records or he'd have been likely denied into the Police and probably even more so wouldn't have got security clearance. If you've got a non-diagnosed mental health condition with no interactions with medical services and the person declines to disclose anything and their character references say they're great then it's very hard.

He got moved to firearms so he clearly was able to mingle and act the part or he'd not have got his peers and supervisors support for applying to it.

But what about his "flashing" episodes in 2015???

 

[Dotta]

From what we know I think it's likely he took up his job as a police man specifically with something like this in mind. He hasn't been long in this position and ties in with indecent exposure as far back as 2015. Seems he was a ticking time bomb and a career like this allowed him to exert power and especially power over women

His psychological problems started in childhood. Read the article a few pages back where his classmate described him as a bully enjoying inflicting pain.

 

[Lola68]

I could see the original intent being rape based on the purchases etc. But if that was the case I don't know why he'd drive her all the way out to the other side of Kent? It seems quite unusual unless his plan was to hold her somewhere.

bbm
The timeline has been bothering me from the start. As far as I know, LE don't know when SE was raped and murdered but assume it was between 3 and 5 March, before WC bought the holdalls. The press are reporting that he went back and forth to the area to try to dispose of the body, but unless he's confessed to exactly when she died (which I doubt given he's just said "no comment" to everything else), could he have been holding her for a few days? (I really, really hope that's not the case and she died the night she was abducted).

And I do think she was still alive when they got to Kent, because the press are reporting that "he transferred her" not "he transferred her body" JIMO

 

[Gemmie]

PC Wayne Couzens, 48, pleads guilty to Sarah Everard's murder | Daily Mail Online

'He said that 2/3 weeks ago he had underpaid a prostitute (he usually meets them at Hotel Bursten or the Holiday Inn in Folkestone) and a gang with links to this prostitute told him that, as a consequence, he had to deliver them 'another girl'.

'They said that if he didn't, they would harm his family. He also detailed that that the gang had been watching him at his house.

Snipped for focus.

I feel like this is a half truth. He likely did pay for prostitutes, and very likely could have stiffed her, and her pimps likely weren't happy about that and threatened him. (happens all the time!).

However, 'deliver them another girl' makes absolutely NO sense to me. He didn't TAKE the first girl (or did he? Is there another dead girl out there, this one a prostitute that no one is looking for?). Replacing one he 'took' (killed?) makes sense for them to want a new one. But it's not like you can pull replacement prostitutes out of your back pocket. Especially a nice girl like Sarah. You might be able to do that with a druggie found on the streets, they could be less likely to try to run off.

Anyway, back to my original thought.... if he didn't 'take/kill' the prostitute, then all they'd be asking for is the money he owes them, not 'another girl'. That part of his statement makes no sense to me.

 

[Lola68]

Fairly early on in this thread, someone posted a video of what looked like a person trying to get attention (or get out) of a moving car - they were in the back behind the passenger seat, waving hands out of window that was mostly wound up, but I can't find it online anymore (think it was from a traffic or train cam).

Does anyone know if this has been ruled out as being SE?

 

[Loopysnoop]

This is utterly BIZARRE to me.

I have never heard of a couple buying land to use to scatter the ashes of relatives (pleural= more than one deceased relative). Some random piece of local woodland.

Woodland For Sale Goldwell Copse, near Ashford, Kent. 0.24 acres of peaceful mature broadleaf woodland within a Site of Special Scientific Interest. £5,000 (freehold) (woods4sale.co.uk)

I found this online - think this is the general area where they bought land. I guess people buy woodland as an investment or for somewhere to camp etc. Maybe it was for the wife - as her family were in Ukraine, might have been that she was able to bring some of her loved ones' ashes back to the UK so she could have somewhere to pay her respects. But if you see my earlier post, I have a barking mad theory about why they bought it ;-)

 

[JuicyLucy]

His wife mentioned his swinging moods - from depression to mania. Biopolar? He might committed this crime while in mania phase (energy, carelessness). And then depression struck - his attempted suicide in jail. But then he was LE carrying arms. How could such a disturbed person be a police officer???

Tbh, it mainly makes me think in terms of a cocaine binge, which he would feel safe doing given that he had 5 days off work (cocaine clearance in urine is 2-3 days). Hours of driving, prowling, a period of manic activity, but also poor judgement and the mistakes that led to his arrest. The inevitable post-binge crash would account for his extreme agitation in the 72 hours after he was taken into custody.

It's JMO though. As far as I know, there's been no specific evidence of drug misuse mentioned by either LE or MSM.

 

[infinit]

But what about his "flashing" episodes in 2015???

I'm unsure by the wording that I've seen if they didn't investigate the actual allegation or if there wasn't a subsequent review of his position based on the allegation.

They've either not investigated the allegation itself which would be pretty staggering. Or they've investigated it and based on lack of evidence or whatever it has not gone forward but they've not then seen if there is enough evidence on balance of probabilities instead of beyond reasonable doubt that he did.

 

[Herat]

Woodland For Sale Goldwell Copse, near Ashford, Kent. 0.24 acres of peaceful mature broadleaf woodland within a Site of Special Scientific Interest. £5,000 (freehold) (woods4sale.co.uk)

I found this online - think this is the general area where they bought land. I guess people buy woodland as an investment or for somewhere to camp etc. Maybe it was for the wife - as her family were in Ukraine, might have been that she was able to bring some of her loved ones' ashes back to the UK so she could have somewhere to pay her respects. But if you see my earlier post, I have a barking mad theory about why they bought it ;-)

It also goes to a very long-term planning for an attack and murder. Gives him a reason to be out in the woods visiting his property, yet also puts a huge target on it when he was being investigated.

It would be most interesting to see if LE could have traced his vehicle movements in the weeks and months prior to Sarah's abduction to know how often he went out there in his planning.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I personally do not buy in it’s entirety his wife’s claim she didn’t suspect anything. It would be impossible not to have suspicions though doubtful she thought he was capable of this. There was an incident in 2015 but I am not sure the details have been published.
the whole Daily Mail interview is odd.

 

[Dotta]

Tbh, it mainly makes me think in terms of a cocaine binge, which he would feel safe doing given that he had 5 days off work (cocaine clearance in urine is 2-3 days). Hours of driving, prowling, a period of manic activity, but also poor judgement and the mistakes that led to his arrest. The inevitable post-binge crash would account for his extreme agitation in the 72 hours after he was taken into custody.

It's JMO though. As far as I know, there's been no specific evidence of drug misuse mentioned by either LE or MSM.

Thank you I never thought of it.

 

[Fiercelobster]

He clearly didn't have a history of bipolar/other mental illness in his medical records or he'd have been likely denied into the Police and probably even more so wouldn't have got security clearance.

Its not the 1980s anymore. Many people serve in the Police with mental health conditions - even Bipolar Disorder, even in firearms units.

The man is an evil murderer and rapist. Within the speculation around his motives, I am not sure it's wildly helpful to stigmatise an entire group of people who suffer from an illness like this.

JMO.

 

[infinit]

Its not the 1980s anymore. Many people serve in the Police with mental health conditions - even Bipolar Disorder, even in firearms units.

The man is an evil murderer and rapist. Within the speculation around his motives, I am not sure it's wildly helpful to stigmatise an entire group of people who suffer from an illness like this.

JMO.

Perhaps research before you accuse me of stigmatising a group that ironically I myself fall in? I know this because at one point I was curious about if it would be possible to join the Police in a non-frontline role. This is his original Police Force and it states you can't be on antidepressants for a period of 6 months before applying, bipolar as a condition generally requires being on medication for life.
https://www.kent.police.uk/police-f...ers/police-constable3/health-and-fitness-faq/

 

[KatieLH]

Its not the 1980s anymore. Many people serve in the Police with mental health conditions - even Bipolar Disorder, even in firearms units.

The man is an evil murderer and rapist. Within the speculation around his motives, I am not sure it's wildly helpful to stigmatise an entire group of people who suffer from an illness like this.

JMO.

As someone who has bipolar disorder, I appreciate this reply. People with mental illnesses are much more likely to harm themselves than others, and to actually be the victims of violent crimes. Generally, bipolar disorder does not present itself as "up and down" as people tend to think, so imo it wouldn't really fit with the timescale of Sarah's murder. Basically, I think it's rare that people with this illness swing wildly between manic and depressive states so quickly (for example, I once had a manic episode that lasted 6 months!) and have the faculties/capabilities to act in the same way as Wayne Couzens (pretty measured and with a high level of preparedness) when in a manic or depressive state.

Not trying to dismiss anyone with this reply, by the way – when we hear about crimes as awful and incomprehensible as this, I think it's common to try to find a way to "understand" it, which can often lead to conversations around mental illnesses such as bipolar which, unfortunately, are not as understood or sympathised with as other mental disorders.

 

[Newthoughts]

But what about his "flashing" episodes in 2015???

I don't get that either. As a teacher every time I move jobs I have to have a full enhanced DBS checks and any criminal record or even certain types of cautions would show up and, probably, mean I would not get the job.

He was not just a policeman but also licensed to carry a gun. I would have thought that would carry extensive background checks and regular checks and that any criminal act at all would disbar you from that role. If not from joining the police at all.

Which I think comes back to how lightly those crimes are treated. A bit of harmless flashing ha ha. Firstly they should be seen as serious crimes in their own right because victims are traumatised. Secondly they should ring serious alarm bells as gateway crimes to rape and to murder. It's a pattern that's been seen far too often now. Should be straight onto a sex offenders register and monitored by appropriately qualified professionals.

 

[KatieLH]

Perhaps research before you accuse me of stigmatising a group that ironically I myself fall in? I know this because at one point I was curious about a career in the Police with bipolar. This is his original Police Force and it states you can't be on antidepressants for a period of 6 months before applying, bipolar as a condition generally requires being on medication for life.
https://www.kent.police.uk/police-f...ers/police-constable3/health-and-fitness-faq/

Interesting, I never knew this part about the antidepressants – it really does cut out a huge chunk of people with mental illnesses or problems (I also have bipolar so understand being on medications for life!|)

 

[KatieLH]

Which I think comes back to how lightly those crimes are treated. A bit of harmless flashing ha ha. Firstly they should be seen as serious crimes in their own right because victims are traumatised. Secondly they should ring serious alarm bells as gateway crimes to rape and to murder. It's a pattern that's been seen far too often now. Should be straight onto a sex offenders register and monitored by appropriately qualified professionals.

Completely agree with you on this. You're absolutely right when you say that most people's reactions are to laugh at these kind of crimes when they are actually super troubling and cause a lot of trauma to the victims – and like you said, absolutely should ring serious alarm bells!