GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

[johnlair]

Thanks. I missed that. This is another puzzler. He (allegedly) says he's remorseful, the Everard family are the victims etc etc. Yet he's keeping quiet about what happened? I wonder if part of the negotiation process next will be to encourage him to give more info in order to provide "closure" for those whose lives he's hurt so badly? Not that someone who is capable of doing what he does might be swayed that way... IMO

it's the fact that the court sees him as genuinely remorseful aswell after him saying nothing but no comment since his first informal interview that gets me...

 

[Seattle1]

it's the fact that the court sees him as genuinely remorseful aswell after him saying nothing but no comment since his first informal interview that gets me...

Huh? Where do you get that it's a fact that the court see's WC as remorseful?

It was the barrister representing Couzens that said his guilty plea was a sign of his remorse and the burden he would have to bear.

 

[johnlair]

Thanks. I missed that. This is another puzzler. He (allegedly) says he's remorseful, the Everard family are the victims etc etc. Yet he's keeping quiet about what happened? I wonder if part of the negotiation process next will be to encourage him to give more info in order to provide "closure" for those whose lives he's hurt so badly? Not that someone who is capable of doing what he does might be swayed that way... IMO

it's the fact that the court sees him as genuinely remorseful aswell after him saying nothing but no comment since his first informal interview that gets me...

Huh? Where do you get that it's a fact that the court see's WC as remorseful?

It was the barrister representing Couzens that said his guilty plea was a sign of his remorse and the burden he would have to bear.

Ah I see I must have read that bit wrong ...Yeah that's the bit I meant. If he was truly guilty he'd open his mouth and tell the truth.

 

[Stella123]

In his initial story about the Rumanian gang he said he was driving between Maidstone and Ashford, and along that route the Mercedes flashed him etc. That bit is probably true (driving between Maidstone and Ashford) because that is the M20 route out of London to Ashford. So he almost certainly did go to Hoads wood to commit the crime. He'd have been there by 11pm probably - and in the hire car. And didn't get home till 1.30am. I read somewhere that Hoads wood is about a 30 minute drive from his home. He was seen in Tilmanstone at 1am which is supposed to be about 15 minutes from his home.

Assuming SE was already dead by the time he set off home he had to find somewhere to hide the body till next day. Maybe too dark or not enough time to hide it in the woods and he balked at the idea of leaving a dead body in the hire car on his driveway at home, so took her back as far as Dover where his own car was parked and moved her into that - probably the boot - then went home. It's then an easy transfer the next day when dropping off the hire car. Pick up his own car with the body already in it and find somewhere to dispose of it.

That is all based on LE saying they think he transferred her to his own car on the coast. Otherwise I thought he could have left her at BCB garage - en route between Dover and Tilmanstone.

I don't understand the mentality, but he seems to have planned to snatch and rape someone, to fulfil some fantasy. And maybe people who do that don't actually plan to kill or think ahead beyond the rape. I don't know. If he did have a fantasy of killing as well, the plastic covers would be useful but probably more to prevent dna on the car.

If he didn't plan to kill he wouldn't have planned to use his own car. I suspect he hired a car to avoid detection or his car numberplate being recognised. Although it was a public street he probably used his warrant card to get her to get in the car so nothing untoward seen. He probably just didn't bank on a bus cam getting his number plate in the dark.

All this assumes he didn't plan to keep her alive for some sick fantasy of extended visits to her. But he must have realised he couldn't let her live.

It still brings up all the original questions of how he got her to Hoads Wood without a struggle.

 

[Stella123]

Again can't remember which report it was, but the Rumanian gang story sounded plausible until (I think) they found he bought the plastic sheeting in advance. Technically that may have just been to hide a kidnap. But they also had all the cell data of his visits to Hoads Wood.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Dbm

 

[Stella123]

What is even more stupid is leaving his phone switched on that night when he was at Hoads wood. They said they had cell data from his phone there in the early hours. Which placed him there.

 

[Stella123]

It doesn't bear thinking about but I think we have to assume she was alive when he got to Hoads Wood. So somewhere between picking her up and getting to Hoads wood, he must have stopped and immobilised her somehow - JMO

I remember reading that serial killers take their victims somewhere familiar. MOO.

 

[Seattle1]

Again can't remember which report it was, but the Rumanian gang story sounded plausible until (I think) they found he bought the plastic sheeting in advance. Technically that may have just been to hide a kidnap. But they also had all the cell data of his visits to Hoads Wood.

Makes me wonder if he's ever provided any woman to any Rumanian gang before (sex trafficking). Not necessarily Sarah but somebody else. I think WC is capable of anything... And he had the perfect cover.

 

[TheBlueGuardian]

The statement told to police about Romanian gang he stated "another woman" instead of "a woman" IMO he's done something before. The entire area should be dug up.

 

[Herat]

In his initial story about the Rumanian gang he said he was driving between Maidstone and Ashford, and along that route the Mercedes flashed him etc. That bit is probably true (driving between Maidstone and Ashford) because that is the M20 route out of London to Ashford. So he almost certainly did go to Hoads wood to commit the crime. He'd have been there by 11pm probably - and in the hire car. And didn't get home till 1.30am. I read somewhere that Hoads wood is about a 30 minute drive from his home. He was seen in Tilmanstone at 1am which is supposed to be about 15 minutes from his home.

Assuming SE was already dead by the time he set off home he had to find somewhere to hide the body till next day. Maybe too dark or not enough time to hide it in the woods and he balked at the idea of leaving a dead body in the hire car on his driveway at home, so took her back as far as Dover where his own car was parked and moved her into that - probably the boot - then went home. It's then an easy transfer the next day when dropping off the hire car. Pick up his own car with the body already in it and find somewhere to dispose of it.

That is all based on LE saying they think he transferred her to his own car on the coast. Otherwise I thought he could have left her at BCB garage - en route between Dover and Tilmanstone.

I don't understand the mentality, but he seems to have planned to snatch and rape someone, to fulfil some fantasy. And maybe people who do that don't actually plan to kill or think ahead beyond the rape. I don't know. If he did have a fantasy of killing as well, the plastic covers would be useful but probably more to prevent dna on the car.

If he didn't plan to kill he wouldn't have planned to use his own car. I suspect he hired a car to avoid detection or his car numberplate being recognised. Although it was a public street he probably used his warrant card to get her to get in the car so nothing untoward seen. He probably just didn't bank on a bus cam getting his number plate in the dark.

All this assumes he didn't plan to keep her alive for some sick fantasy of extended visits to her. But he must have realised he couldn't let her live.

It still brings up all the original questions of how he got her to Hoads Wood without a struggle.

He went through so much trouble to buy the builder's bags and the plastic to cover the car seats, I think he had the builder bags in the car when he abducted her and left her in one at Hoad's Woods that night after murdering her. Then returned the next day with more debris and flammables to attempt to burn her body

 

[Stella123]

To my knowledge, little has been provided as to why WC was still in town after completing his shift and/or his time off. I think abducting and ultimately killing Sarah was a crime of opportunity.

From very early reports, I recall that WC drove a motorcycle and relied on public transport to commute to work. Perhaps the family vehicle was primarily driven by his wife.

During a trial, I think we might have learned that hiring cars for his days off was probably a normal occurrence for WC. I think WC liked driving hired vehicles when exposing himself at drive-throughs establishments, especially if he believed he could avoid immediate detection if the incident was reported.

Take note the first check on a vehicle by plate number would result in identifying the Agency as the ownership, whereas more internal research would be necessary before they could identify the actual renter for a specific date/time from a reported incident.

They had two cars. The Seat and another one - plus his bike. She wouldn't have needed the family car really. Assuming she didn't know he was hiring a car (which seemed to be for an intended purpose), she probably thought he'd just gone to work in their car - which he then left at the hire car place when he hired the car. But how did she not have questions when he then went home in a hire car?! Ok it was 1.30am when he got back, but he took it back at 8.30am. Maybe he managed to shoot off that morning before she realised.

 

[Stella123]

The statement told to police about Romanian gang he stated "another woman" instead of "a woman" IMO he's done something before. The entire area should be dug up.

Good point! He said "another girl". I took it to read as "payment" for the girl he underpaid- which he probably meant. I think the Police completely dismissed that story after getting his cellphone data showing he was at Hoads wood that night. Can't remember where it said cellphone data had him there "in the early hours".

But as he had some true bits in among the lies it makes you wonder if he did pull into a layby on the Maidstone to Ashford route.

Agree they should dig up that area of wood he owns. Especially where that wooden cross is! What's the explanation for that?

 

[Stella123]

He went through so much trouble to buy the builder's bags and the plastic to cover the car seats, I think he had the builder bags in the car when he abducted her and left her in one at Hoad's Woods that night after murdering her. Then returned the next day with more debris and flammables to attempt to burn her body

He could have yes. He didn't buy the builders bags till the next day - but he could have had one already.

 

[Stella123]

The bit about transferring her to his own car sounds fairly confirmed as it was reported in court

"The drive to the woodland near Ashford, where Everard’s body was eventually found a week later, takes approximately 90 minutes with no stops. By 1am the Astra was seen in Tilmanstone, a 15-minute drive from Couzens’s home. It is unclear when he raped and killed Everard. The Old Bailey heard at some point on the Kent coast he transferred her into his own vehicle. He then went home to his wife. He returned the hire car at 8.30am the next morning."

"Her remains were found about 100 yards from a grave marked by a makeshift wooden cross which is believed to contain human ashes"

How Wayne Couzens lied to cover up plans to kill in days before abduction of Sarah Everard | News | The Times

 

[Stella123]

If that wooden cross really did mark the grave of a relatives ashes, why wasn't their name on the cross if they were a loved one? JMO

 

[Stella123]

"It was the height of the coronavirus lockdown, and police were questioning people who were out.

Only Couzens knows whether he used an excuse to get Everard into his car, or whether he forced her inside. However, police sources suspect he initially showed his warrant card to give the false impression he could be trusted. It took three minutes to execute his plan.

A bus camera image at 9.35pm shows the pair standing beside the Astra. At 9.38pm, when another bus drove past, the figures had disappeared into the car, and the front and passenger doors were open.

Detectives tracked the vehicle using CCTV and ANPR motorway cameras and it immediately headed out through south London towards Kent."

How Wayne Couzens lied to cover up plans to kill in days before abduction of Sarah Everard | News | The Times

 

[Stella123]

So if the car immediately headed south out of London, how did he manage to drive unless he stopped somewhere to restrain her as she must have realised fairly soon that they were not going to a Police station eg.

 

[Seattle1]

The bit about transferring her to his own car sounds fairly confirmed as it was reported in court

"The drive to the woodland near Ashford, where Everard’s body was eventually found a week later, takes approximately 90 minutes with no stops. By 1am the Astra was seen in Tilmanstone, a 15-minute drive from Couzens’s home. It is unclear when he raped and killed Everard. The Old Bailey heard at some point on the Kent coast he transferred her into his own vehicle. He then went home to his wife. He returned the hire car at 8.30am the next morning."

"Her remains were found about 100 yards from a grave marked by a makeshift wooden cross which is believed to contain human ashes"

How Wayne Couzens lied to cover up plans to kill in days before abduction of Sarah Everard | News | The Times

I find the Times report lacking. Only forensic evidence will confirm if SE's body was ever inside WC's personal vehicle. Other sources previously linked indicate the builder's bag with SE's charred body was located in a woodland stream in Hoad's Woods.

 

[Stella123]

There's a visual map on that Times article as well that details everything from 28th Feb and all the locations and possible routes - helps picture where he was when etc. To see that map bigger, save the photo and open it in a photo app.