PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[minazoe]

There is just no simple explanation. A hard drive is a relatively small item that would be super easy to dispose of and probably would not require scoping out lakes and towns.
The potential for it to wash up on shore and be found is far greater than just burying, smashing, burning, even putting it in concrete..lol..

I seriously think he may have left..but I also know that judges and prosecutors are often under threat. Perhaps Ray was under "threat" but chose not to involve anyone and took his own measures to disappear...

I totally agree that something was going on with Ray...I also think it's possible that Ray did not move the car and that someone else moved that car. Maybe Ray was having a complicated affair with a lot of secret angst and drama.

I really don't trust the all Ray sightings, especially the " day of" sightings..

.. could any man/woman of a certain age and hair color pass as Ray driving the Mini?

I'm always looking at the kinks of this case..and some of the weirdnesses too..

like was PF actually modeling herself after Ray's first wife? did she always look like this?

( I know she is a victim right? she wasn't a crazy jealous stalker , bunny boiler who offed her boyfriend and got help covering it up..right?).

I just always smell a big fat RAT in this case...drives me crazy.

mOO

 

[Trackergd]

JJ, do we know what town in Slovenia his family was from?

 

[dianebowen]

If this is a voluntary disappearance, then what would have been his logic for disposing of the laptop in the river as opposed to just taking it with him to someplace far away?

 

[SeekingJana]

If this is a voluntary disappearance, then what would have been his logic for disposing of the laptop in the river as opposed to just taking it with him to someplace far away?

If he was on his way to a new life, the last thing he'd want left usable and available would have been an older model laptop that MIGHT have had personal emails or sensitive work emails related to cases.

IT people I know say the old " Wiper" programs were bad in 2005, and that they'd overwrite and remove the partitions of the HDs manually. If they want it destroyed, salt water is the way to go because of the corrosive effects, but Ray didn't have a coast, nor was one needed.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ, do we know what town in Slovenia his family was from?

I don't.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If this is a voluntary disappearance, then what would have been his logic for disposing of the laptop in the river as opposed to just taking it with him to someplace far away?

The laptop, itself, had a property tag that identified it a belonging to Centre County, PA. If he tossed it in Butte, Montana, for example, and someone found it, it would tie whatever happened to that location. Either RFG would have dropped it there, or someone involved with his disappearance would have dropped it there.

The laptop is in the Susquehanna next to Lewisburg. The Mini is in Lewisburg, and he is seen in Lewisburg (we also know his scent was there, but RFG could not have known that). Having the laptop there doesn't change that. RFG is already tied to that location.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped only for brevity.

There is just no simple explanation. A hard drive is a relatively small item that would be super easy to dispose of and probably would not require scoping out lakes and towns.
The potential for it to wash up on shore and be found is far greater than just burying, smashing, burning, even putting it in concrete..lol..

All of those things take time, especially if he was using it while there. It is far easier and much less obvious to toss it.

I seriously think he may have left..but I also know that judges and prosecutors are often under threat. Perhaps Ray was under "threat" but chose not to involve anyone and took his own measures to disappear...

The idea of a personal "Prosecutor Protection Program," is a possible motive for voluntarily disappearing, but a murder of a prosecutor is exceptionally rare. I think that there have been less 2 dozen cases in the last 115 years. In a number of them, the prosecutor was killed during a robbery.

I really don't trust the all Ray sightings, especially the " day of" sightings..

.. could any man/woman of a certain age and hair color pass as Ray driving the Mini?

We do have multiple independent witnesses, and physical evidence, his scent, that RFG was in a location where at least some of the witnesses saw him. To me, it is beyond any reasonable doubt that he was in Lewisburg.

like was PF actually modeling herself after Ray's first wife? did she always look like this?

When I was a college student, I met her uncle on two occasions, while he was Mayor of Bellefonte. PEF looks like a Fornicola. There is definitely a family resemblance, so I don't think it an intentional modeling. In the photos I've seen in the years after the disappearance, she looks the same. When I first saw the photo of his first wife, I assumed she was also a Fornicola.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

An interview with RK: 7/6/21 WKOK Sunrise, Rebecca Knight, author, podcaster, investigator…on her new Ray Gricar podcast and much more… |

 

[SeekingJana]

When I was a college student, I met her uncle on two occasions, while he was Mayor of Bellefonte. PEF looks like a Fornicola. There is definitely a family resemblance, so I don't think it an intentional modeling. In the photos I've seen in the years after the disappearance, she looks the same. When I first saw the photo of his first wife, I assumed she was also a Fornicola.

This part is still just hilarious to me, all these years later. EVERYONE had looked at those two women, speaking and just standing, and NO ONE said " They could pass or sisters or mother/ daughter". My eyes were as big as saucers!!!!

I hope Barbara and Lara are doing well. No comment on PFo.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This part is still just hilarious to me, all these years later. EVERYONE had looked at those two women, speaking and just standing, and NO ONE said " They could pass or sisters or mother/ daughter". My eyes were as big as saucers!!!!

I hope Barbara and Lara are doing well. No comment on PFo.

The people like me didn't know who they were and the other knew at least one of the women. It didn't stand out.

Frankly, when I first heard that the S.O. was a younger woman by about 20 years and that RFG drove what I considered a sports car, I thought he was having a mid life crisis. I was expecting PEF to be a leggy blond cheerleader type.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

An interview with RK: 7/6/21 WKOK Sunrise, Rebecca Knight, author, podcaster, investigator…on her new Ray Gricar podcast and much more… |

One think new that I got from the interview was that when the PA State Police reviewed the case, their first recommendation was to empanel a grand jury to investigate the case. This has been called for, independently and publicly, by both Buehner and myself for more than ten years.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

New episode.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Information is good. Conclusions, or leading questions, are not. It went off on a Sandusky tangent.

A few problems with the logic:

1. RK spoke about the sighting of RFG in a Tyrone, PA antique shop with an unidentified woman. The woman has been identified. It was PEF, according to her.

2. RK suggested that this, and another sighting in a Clearfield county antique shop, were because he was meeting with someone where he wouldn't be recognized. Both are in the Central PA (or Johnstown-Altoona-State College) media market, where RFG had been covered for 20+ years. Those were both places where he would likely be recognized. (Lewisburg isn't in that media market, BTW.)

3. She suggested that the car was a signal to these women, suggested to be mothers of boys Sandusky molested. No woman was ever seen at these other places around a car.

4. RFG knew the mothers of the boys from the 1998 incident, why didn't he see them? If he did, why didn't they, or some other parents, come forward after Sandusky (and Spanier) were convicted?

5. Other than those two, how did RFG know who these others were?

6. Laptop problem again. There were no reports of him having the laptop at these other locations. If he did, how could anyone else know that the information was solely on his laptop? As these sighting occurred weeks before, RFG could have easily transferred to other sources, like his home or office desktop or a removable device.

 

[SeekingJana]

One think new that I got from the interview was that when the PA State Police reviewed the case, their first recommendation was to empanel a grand jury to investigate the case. This has been called for, independently and publicly, by both Buehner and myself for more than ten years.

Hmm. A family member is serving 6 months on a GJ currently. The schedule is 1 day per month for 6 months. Hardly taxing, but it is the law here.
He now believes what I've been saying for over 20 years from the Ramsey case " You can indict a ham sandwich".
IOW, the evidence he's hearing and seeing is not ambiguous. The DA will take the run of the mill drug and alcohol offense charges to open court.
He said that the grand jurors could ask questions, of course, but in his limited experience thus far, it's self- explanatory.

I asked him what he'd do about a missing person case when the missing person was an adult and no signs of foul play were found, and he said " Leave him alone, because he's either alive and where he wants to be, or he's dead with so little evidence left that no one can find a trail to follow."

I don't see the totality of the Gricar case as being workable by a group of his non- judiciary peers. I think the FBI would have the best chance of coming up with a lead buried in the files, or a lead based on a similar disappearance.
Not John Smith the insurance salesman from the " jury pool". As large as the body of evidence is, working people can't take off work for months and months to sift through the reports, files, things I don't know that they have.

I'd send it up the chain of command to the FBI for help. I'd have done that years ago, not impanelled a GJ of local citizenry. JMO, respectfully, of course.

 

[SeekingJana]

Information is good. Conclusions, or leading questions, are not. It went off on a Sandusky tangent.

A few problems with the logic:

1. RK spoke about the sighting of RFG in a Tyrone, PA antique shop with an unidentified woman. The woman has been identified. It was PEF, according to her.

2. RK suggested that this, and another sighting in a Clearfield county antique shop, were because he was meeting with someone where he wouldn't be recognized. Both are in the Central PA (or Johnstown-Altoona-State College) media market, where RFG had been covered for 20+ years. Those were both places where he would likely be recognized. (Lewisburg isn't in that media market, BTW.)

3. She suggested that the car was a signal to these women, suggested to be mothers of boys Sandusky molested. No woman was ever seen at these other places around a car.

4. RFG knew the mothers of the boys from the 1998 incident, why didn't he see them? If he did, why didn't they, or some other parents, come forward after Sandusky (and Spanier) were convicted?

5. Other than those two, how did RFG know who these others were?

6. Laptop problem again. There were no reports of him having the laptop at these other locations. If he did, how could anyone else know that the information was solely on his laptop? As these sighting occurred weeks before, RFG could have easily transferred to other sources, like his home or office desktop or a removable device.

Sad to see Sandusky being the big red honking nose sideshow.
I thought this is where she would go, frankly.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped for brevity only.

Not John Smith the insurance salesman from the " jury pool". As large as the body of evidence is, working people can't take off work for months and months to sift through the reports, files, things I don't know that they have.

I'd send it up the chain of command to the FBI for help. I'd have done that years ago, not impanelled a GJ of local citizenry. JMO, respectfully, of course.

In PA, there are state wide grand juries. They can use the PSP and the state attorney general's office to investigate. These are the same guys that brought down Sandusky.

 

[SeekingJana]

Snipped for brevity only.
In PA, there are state wide grand juries. They can use the PSP and the state attorney general's office to investigate. These are the same guys that brought down Sandusky.

OK, so what you are saying is NOT a usual GJ at all, right? You are saying, if I read this correctly as I believe I have, that it is a longer- term group of LE agents investigating?

A TASK FORCE like the one that finally found the Golden State Killer and other horrible criminals, but in this case, a long- missing or dead man? Just LE, not Joe Smith off the street.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, RK's conclusions might not be good, but she just downloaded the PSP-CIA report. Tell me if anything sounds familiar.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The cell phone/landline records.

 

[jr1]

He had decades of law enforcement experience he would've easily been able to spot someone following him