GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

[Newthoughts]

There is still the possible scenario and I know people are not going to like it that Him and Sarah may have had a fling together.... She was definitely his type in looks and he was in a professional exiting job maybe before she was with Josh they had a one night stand or something and He just couldn't get her out of his mind...was obsessed... Just because people say they didn't know each other how do we really know this..

I'm just trying to think how he got her into the car and drove off towards Kent.. This bit bothers me because from her description she seems quite a strong lady that would have put up a fight did he have any marks on him...

There's so many different scenarios I think until more information comes out it will be hard to piece it all together.. We need to see that bus Cam footage..

Anyone know if this was his car... it looks. like an Astra to me with it's black mirrors.. driver looks bald too and is in the area the dog walkers that the police wanted to talk to was

Regards getting her into the car - I think it would be very easy for a serving Police officer with a warrant card to con a law abiding citizen in a lockdown into getting into his car.

Police were questioning anyone that was out at that point and everyone was a bit jumpy when they saw them.

We expect the police to be the trustworthy face of the law. Lockdown rules were confusing. Sarah had been to see a friend so may not have been sure of herself.

I wish we knew for certain whether she got into the back or front seats. The only thing I could think of that would have rung alarm bells for me would have been getting into the front of the car. If you're stopped by police in a lockdown you'd automatically expect 2 metre distancing rules to apply.

 

[Dotta]

In the UK, if you are not a police officer, it's a 5 year prison sentence for a possession of a taser/stun gun, as they are classified the same as a dangerous firearm or normal bullet gun.

5 year minimum sentence for stun gun? | Burton Copeland

..and I'm sure police officers can only carry them when they're on duty. I doubt they can take them home. They must be left at the police station.

Yes, of course I know it is prohibited to own them. But many things are prohibited and still people use them Once in the car he had to overpower her quickly and tie/handcuff her. Otherwise she would have fought. She could have lunged at him (I would) while he was driving causing an accident. Keeping her at gun/knife point was risky too. He would have to drive using 1 hand on the wheel and besides couldnt have kept hls eyes on the road. He, as LE, knew how to use a taser. Of course it is my opinion only.

 

[cestmoi]

It's my opinion that she wasn't taken by physical force, for all the reasons everyone else has articulated above, but went into his car willingly, after being sold a lie and being tricked about his intentions. I feel it's very likely he used his police status in the deception thus making it a kidnapping/abduction (where otherwise I don't think that part could be an official charge). (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about that.)
He will have to have stopped somewhere eventually and done something to her during that time window where his actions are currently unknown - to restrain her when she realised something was wrong.

 

[Dotta]

It's my opinion that she wasn't taken by physical force, for all the reasons everyone else has articulated above, but went into his car willingly, after being sold a lie and being tricked about his intentions. I feel it's very likely he used his police status in the deception thus making it a kidnapping/abduction (where otherwise I don't think that part could be an official charge). (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about that.)
He will have to have stopped somewhere eventually and done something to her during that time window where his actions are currently unknown - to restrain her when she realised something was wrong.

I agree. I was talking about the situation when she was already IN the car.

 

[Moll]

There is still the possible scenario and I know people are not going to like it that Him and Sarah may have had a fling together.... She was definitely his type in looks and he was in a professional exiting job maybe before she was with Josh they had a one night stand or something and He just couldn't get her out of his mind...was obsessed... Just because people say they didn't know each other how do we really know this..

I'm just trying to think how he got her into the car and drove off towards Kent.. This bit bothers me because from her description she seems quite a strong lady that would have put up a fight did he have any marks on him...

There's so many different scenarios I think until more information comes out it will be hard to piece it all together.. We need to see that bus Cam footage..

Anyone know if this was his car... it looks. like an Astra to me with it's black mirrors.. driver looks bald too and is in the area the dog walkers that the police wanted to talk to was

I can't believe you're coming out with this insulting rubbish about it still being possible they 'may have had a fling together'. Apart from WC being totally below Sarah's level, there is no evidence whatsoever of this and the CPS have been at pains to stress that they did not know each other.

 

[Nikynoo]

Re the land owned by WC and the 'burying' of his father. Two things:
1 - it was mentioned in a newspaper report, that this land was searched, a makeshift cross was found along with evidence of human ashes (not Sarah's). Another poster who is local has said that it is quite popular in that area to buy parcels of land.
2 - The whole burying my father bit - is making me think that there may be something going on with the Couzens side of the family. As far as I can remember, we could not find a death record for his father, but we could his uncle? Perhaps, he saw his uncle as a father figure - or perhaps it is something else.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes, it's a distasteful thought, and an unpopular idea I'm sure, but it is possible. Maybe not even a fling, but any type of pre-arranged situation where she might have expected to see him that evening, however briefly. It would explain how she got into the car and how he got them out of London without problems, and also why it was so important to him (presumably) that her phone was never found - and that his was wiped. I think he sensed the net was tightening on him and that's why he had the foresight to wipe his own phone (which I suspect may have contained a whole lot of other bad stuff on it unrelated to SE). However the information we have all read so far is that they were "total strangers" who had not had any indirect or direct relationship with each other. Meaning they could find no evidence of any messages or communications between them. I'm not sure how likely it would be that information like that would only be contained to SE's missing phone, if the information ever existed.

WC admitted that he didn't know SE and had never seen her before.

 

[Tortoise]

It's my opinion that she wasn't taken by physical force, for all the reasons everyone else has articulated above, but went into his car willingly, after being sold a lie and being tricked about his intentions. I feel it's very likely he used his police status in the deception thus making it a kidnapping/abduction (where otherwise I don't think that part could be an official charge). (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong about that.)
He will have to have stopped somewhere eventually and done something to her during that time window where his actions are currently unknown - to restrain her when she realised something was wrong.

"His charge sheet alleges he "unlawfully and by force took or carried away Sarah Everard against her will"." Police officer accused of abducting and murdering Sarah Everard appears in court

He pled guilty to the kidnap charge, without further comment, as far as I know.

 

[Wandsworth20]

Completely agree, a Durham university graduate is not going to be remotely interested in a chavvy, underachiever like him. And that’s being generous. What an absolutely ridiculous suggestion and it’s been debunked in court. The did not know each other!

I can't believe you're coming out with this insulting rubbish about it still being possible they 'may have had a fling together'. Apart from WC being totally below Sarah's level, there is no evidence whatsoever of this and the CPS have been at pains to stress that they did not know each other.

 

[Wandsworth20]

I’m equally surprised he managed to get a wife so highly educated as well. Perhaps she has self esteem issues.

 

[johnlair]

I can't believe you're coming out with this insulting rubbish about it still being possible they 'may have had a fling together'. Apart from WC being totally below Sarah's level, there is no evidence whatsoever of this and the CPS have been at pains to stress that they did not know each other.

Like I said ...it is an unpopular opinion so I knew there would be someone who see's it like I am insulting ... No I have followed the case from the start and I am not insulting I am looking at All avenues ... we know what a WC was NOW... but to most who knew him I've read he was a well spoken good mannered individual ...even his wife who lived with him day in day out for years did not know the real him.
So when you say well below Sarahs Level... Did you actually know Sarah? Before his ugly ttuth came out He was an officer who protected VIPs that's quite a position of power.... We know now he liked them young and from his ex girlfriends story we can clearly see his jealous possessive arrogant side he thought way too much of himself for anyone to pull the plug on him..

Does it actually say anywhere WC said he didn't know her apart from him denying he'd ever seen her before... From the reports I have read he spun the European Gangster story and then has said no comment the entire time so they are going of people in the families saying they didn't know each other..

I am not saying this is the truth so there is no need to be so touchy and defensive Sarahs story has affected me too....But I am looking at all avenues and I am simply giving out an unpopular opinion as a could be reason why she got in the car and did not kick out the windows and scream the streets down..

If the CPS is so adamant they did not know each other all they have to do is give us a reason why... People who are having an affair don't tend to shout it out as announcements to friends and family so I'd like to know with a missing phone most likely burned and a empty phone and WC being the only one who knows the truth but is being silent How do they know this

 

[johnlair]

WC admitted that he didn't know SE and had never seen her before.

All I have read is in that 1st interview where he told the Romanian Gang story he was shown a picture of her and denied ever seeing her before...
Which most killers do unless faced with hard evidence.

 

[Dotta]

Like I said ...it is an unpopular opinion so I knew there would be someone who see's it like I am insulting ... No I have followed the case from the start and I am not insulting I am looking at All avenues ... we know what a ******* WC was NOW... but to most who knew him I've read he was a well spoken good mannered individual ...even his wife who lived with him day in day out for years did not know the real him.
So when you say well below Sarahs Level... Did you actually know Sarah? Before his ugly ttuth came out He was an officer who protected VIPs that's quite a position of power.... We know now he liked them young and from his ex girlfriends story we can clearly see his jealous possessive arrogant side he thought way too much of himself for anyone to pull the plug on him..

Does it actually say anywhere WC said he didn't know her apart from him denying he'd ever seen her before... From the reports I have read he spun the European Gangster story and then has said no comment the entire time so they are going of people in the families saying they didn't know each other..

I am not saying this is the truth so there is no need to be so touchy and defensive Sarahs story has affected me too....But I am looking at all avenues and I am simply giving out an unpopular opinion as a could be reason why she got in the car and did not kick out the windows and scream the streets down..

If the CPS is so adamant they did not know each other all they have to do is give us a reason why... People who are having an affair don't tend to shout it out as announcements to friends and family so I'd like to know with a missing phone most likely burned and a empty phone and WC being the only one who knows the truth but is being silent How do they know this

You are right - life is sometimes stranger than fiction and we know nothing about WC private life. Besides everybody has a right to express his/her opinion - all of us on WS are very respectful towards Sarah.

 

[londoncat]

Like I said ...it is an unpopular opinion so I knew there would be someone who see's it like I am insulting ... No I have followed the case from the start and I am not insulting I am looking at All avenues ... we know what a ******* WC was NOW... but to most who knew him I've read he was a well spoken good mannered individual ...even his wife who lived with him day in day out for years did not know the real him.
So when you say well below Sarahs Level... Did you actually know Sarah? Before his ugly ttuth came out He was an officer who protected VIPs that's quite a position of power.... We know now he liked them young and from his ex girlfriends story we can clearly see his jealous possessive arrogant side he thought way too much of himself for anyone to pull the plug on him..

Does it actually say anywhere WC said he didn't know her apart from him denying he'd ever seen her before... From the reports I have read he spun the European Gangster story and then has said no comment the entire time so they are going of people in the families saying they didn't know each other..

I am not saying this is the truth so there is no need to be so touchy and defensive Sarahs story has affected me too....But I am looking at all avenues and I am simply giving out an unpopular opinion as a could be reason why she got in the car and did not kick out the windows and scream the streets down..

If the CPS is so adamant they did not know each other all they have to do is give us a reason why... People who are having an affair don't tend to shout it out as announcements to friends and family so I'd like to know with a missing phone most likely burned and a empty phone and WC being the only one who knows the truth but is being silent How do they know this

Presumably they checked and cross referenced both of their mobile phone location data in the preceding months. As most people have their phones on them all the time when socialising they could be fairly confident that they hadn’t met previously?

 

[johnlair]

You are right - life is sometimes stranger than fiction and we know nothing about WC private life. Besides everybody has a right to express his/her opinion - all of us on WS are very respectful towards Sarah.

As am I ... I spent night after night trawling through CCTV and evidence trying to find the answers his conviction only seems to have bought more answers to the table for me personally. But if I am going to investigate something I can't allow my personal feelings override any possibilities... I have to follow each different scenario regardless of my feelings on WC...
And one of the biggest questions for me is that bus cam footage that it doesn't seem forced or rushed in any way.. both doors open on a busy street... and the timing of it.. Whatever he said I think it made her at ease.. And I think if he was saying I'm a police officer you shouldn't be out etc she would not have just got in that car... I don't know but I'm just going over all scenarios including ones people don't want to hear.

 

[johnlair]

Presumably they checked and cross referenced both of their mobile phone location data in the preceding months. As most people have their phones on them all the time when socialising they could be fairly confident that they hadn’t met previously?

Hopefully they retrieved hers

 

[Dotta]

As am I ... I spent night after night trawling through CCTV and evidence trying to find the answers his conviction only seems to have bought more answers to the table for me personally. But if I am going to investigate something I can't allow my personal feelings override any possibilities... I have to follow each different scenario regardless of my feelings on WC...
And one of the biggest questions for me is that bus cam footage that it doesn't seem forced or rushed in any way.. both doors open on a busy street... and the timing of it.. Whatever he said I think it made her at ease.. And I think if he was saying I'm a police officer you shouldn't be out etc she would not have just got in that car... I don't know but I'm just going over all scenarios including ones people don't want to hear.

Of course! Asking questions is vital in sleuthing. Tunnel vision is the greatest error of any detective. We are here to discuss any possibility - so carry on and dont worry

 

[Sherlockhames]

As am I ... I spent night after night trawling through CCTV and evidence trying to find the answers his conviction only seems to have bought more answers to the table for me personally. But if I am going to investigate something I can't allow my personal feelings override any possibilities... I have to follow each different scenario regardless of my feelings on WC...
And one of the biggest questions for me is that bus cam footage that it doesn't seem forced or rushed in any way.. both doors open on a busy street... and the timing of it.. Whatever he said I think it made her at ease.. And I think if he was saying I'm a police officer you shouldn't be out etc she would not have just got in that car... I don't know but I'm just going over all scenarios including ones people don't want to hear.

Has the bus cam footage been made public? I thought it was just described in court. Do you have a link to it?

 

[johnlair]

Has the bus cam footage been made public? I thought it was just described in court. Do you have a link to it?

No I wish it had so far am just going off the description

 

[Moll]

You are right - life is sometimes stranger than fiction and we know nothing about WC private life. Besides everybody has a right to express his/her opinion - all of us on WS are very respectful towards Sarah.

If people express an opinion on here which completely disregards the evidence given then they also deserve a strong response. This idea Johnlair seems to think is some sort of bold theory on his part was voiced by many in the early stages of this case but has been abandoned by everyone. The 'right' of everyone to express an opinion is tempered by a responsibility, and I think it is in fact disrespectful to Sarah knowing as much as we know now to indulge in this fantasy. I couldn't care less how many hours johnlair has spent trawling or what his feelings are.