GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

[Moll]

You are right - life is sometimes stranger than fiction and we know nothing about WC private life. Besides everybody has a right to express his/her opinion - all of us on WS are very respectful towards Sarah.

DBM (unintended double post).

 

[Dotta]

If people express an opinion on here which completely disregards the evidence given then they also deserve a strong response. This idea Johnlair seems to think is some sort of bold theory on his part was voiced by many in the early stages of this case but has been abandoned by everyone. The 'right' of everyone to express an opinion is tempered by a responsibility, and I think it is in fact disrespectful to Sarah knowing as much as we know now to indulge in this fantasy. I couldn't care less how many hours johnlair has spent trawling or what his feelings are.

Well, I dont see anything disrespectful to S if she knew a police officer who served in elite formation of LE. But I also doubt it and think WC chose a random victim. My response was because I was surprised that a poster asked a question and got negative reactions. That is all and Im not going to delve into it any more

 

[Skigh]

If people express an opinion on here which completely disregards the evidence given then they also deserve a strong response. This idea Johnlair seems to think is some sort of bold theory on his part was voiced by many in the early stages of this case but has been abandoned by everyone. The 'right' of everyone to express an opinion is tempered by a responsibility, and I think it is in fact disrespectful to Sarah knowing as much as we know now to indulge in this fantasy. I couldn't care less how many hours johnlair has spent trawling or what his feelings are.

Well said.I totally agree.

 

[Sherlockhames]

No I wish it had so far am just going off the description

Understood. Just conscious it is hard for us to construct a likely chain of events with so much information missing (police don’t seem to have a clear view either and they have reviewed the footage). We don’t know for sure for instance that he didn’t just physically over power her. I think the police just don’t have visual or forensic evidence that he did. So are surmising he may have talked her into the car. But they could have been having a conversation and then he chased her - the chase not having been caught on camera. But equally he could have somehow talked her into the car using a warrant card although as I think you? Others? On here have mentioned, I would find her complying with a request to get into an unmarked police car by an officer not in uniform very surprising. It’s just not what women do (I have been offered a lift once, by the police, 2 of them, in a marked car - and I still felt more comfortable doing my own thing, it just felt too weird).

I think if you are not expecting something to happen you just stick to your own thing. Although maybe if he was a v good talker and was able to completely disarm her verbally then possibly. Or used lockdown rules as a pretence and maybe kind of spooked her?

I still wonder if he didn’t distract her and maybe used his card as a pretence for a conversation but ultimately overpowered her and bundled her into the car under the cover of the open car doors, partial darkness, sort of quiet road (cars passing, but not immediately next to him as he was on a wide pavement and was able to effect the manoeuvre so quickly she didn’t have a chance to react). I think it may have been quite violent and shocking.

I also think his reason for not talking is that he hasn’t fully reconciled with himself the magnitude of the horror he perpetuated. I think he probably harboured sexually deviant fantasies for a long time, decided to act upon them but hadn’t really thought through and end game. I think he is likely personable, but maybe a bit dim - thought through some things but not others. But he wasn’t really properly processing what the consequences of his actions would be. He maybe imagined a certain scenario but really didn’t consider, brainstorm, scenario plan etc the eventualities.
I think his unraveling and remorse is probably genuine. But that he can’t bring himself to tell the whole exact story because it is so horrific even to him. I am in no way trying to excuse his behaviour. But it does seem to me that he might not be some devious murderous psychopath but and individual who had some sort of disorder that caused his sexual deviancy to escalate. And that if we had a more open conversation about how wrong those sorts of thoughts and violence against women actually are then maybe he could have been treated via therapy at some point and had these urges (or whatever they are) dealt with.

 

[LucyRocket]

Has the bus cam footage been made public? I thought it was just described in court. Do you have a link to it?

No it hasn't. It's just been commented on like johnlair said. Both doors open after 3 minutes of the figures being seen next to the car

 

[Dotta]

No it hasn't. It's just been commented on like johnlair said. Both doors open after 3 minutes of the figures being seen next to the car

He might have asked her for help in Ted Bundy style.

 

[Nina2021]

I’m equally surprised he managed to get a wife so highly educated as well. Perhaps she has self esteem issues.

Perhaps yes.
She definitely didn't draw a winning number.

But he's English. If he had been from her hometown it's possible she wouldn't even had looked at him.
She couldn't have known much about his past (drugs and all the rest...) which was very convenient for him.
From what we learn he seems to be a compulsive liar and IMO he could be a highly manipulative person.

 

[Nikynoo]

I also think his reason for not talking is that he hasn’t fully reconciled with himself the magnitude of the horror he perpetuated. I think he probably harboured sexually deviant fantasies for a long time, decided to act upon them but hadn’t really thought through and end game. I think he is likely personable, but maybe a bit dim - thought through some things but not others. But he wasn’t really properly processing what the consequences of his actions would be. He maybe imagined a certain scenario but really didn’t consider, brainstorm, scenario plan etc the eventualities.
I think his unraveling and remorse is probably genuine. But that he can’t bring himself to tell the whole exact story because it is so horrific even to him. I am in no way trying to excuse his behaviour. But it does seem to me that he might not be some devious murderous psychopath but and individual who had some sort of disorder that caused his sexual deviancy to escalate. And that if we had a more open conversation about how wrong those sorts of thoughts and violence against women actually are then maybe he could have been treated via therapy at some point and had these urges (or whatever they are) dealt with.

SBM - This is exactly the way I am leaning at the moment.

 

[Nikynoo]

"His charge sheet alleges he "unlawfully and by force took or carried away Sarah Everard against her will"." Police officer accused of abducting and murdering Sarah Everard appears in court

He pled guilty to the kidnap charge, without further comment, as far as I know.

But he actualy pled guilty to Kidnap “unlawfully and by force or fraud”. So, it could be either scenario.

PC Wayne Couzens pleads guilty to kidnap and rape of Sarah Everard

 

[Nikynoo]

Hopefully they retrieved hers

As afar as I am aware, Sarahs phone is still missing.

 

[johnlair]

Has the bus cam footage been made public? I thought it was just described in court. Do you have a link to it?

No I wish it had so far am just going off the description

If people express an opinion on here which completely disregards the evidence given then they also deserve a strong response. This idea Johnlair seems to think is some sort of bold theory on his part was voiced by many in the early stages of this case but has been abandoned by everyone. The 'right' of everyone to express an opinion is tempered by a responsibility, and I think it is in fact disrespectful to Sarah knowing as much as we know now to indulge in this fantasy. I couldn't care less how many hours johnlair has spent trawling or what his feelings are.

No we were talking about how he got her in the car actually I don't know what part you are up to so I am relooking at scenarios it is not my opinion and neither am I being disrespectful going over all evidence I think it is disrespectful to her not to look at all the possibilities. Neither is it my fantasy there are many many loose ends that need putting together in this case this is one of many scenarios that could have happened another is he said there is a murderer on the loose he is a police officer and he needs to get her out the area but then she could have looked around at all the other people we can clearly see in the CCTV and thought why me? the same with the Lockdown disciplinary ... All areas of him just bunging her in the car somehow dont seem plausible they would have attracted too much attention and as far as I am aware there is no witness accounts saying he did this plus the bus cam description seems to conflict with that so the question remains exactly how? did he get her in the car... Now I'm not going to let my personal feelings for this scum to get in the way... I'm trying to think in this situation exactly how did he get her in the car unnoticed with no struggle etc.. and I dont see what evidence I am disregarding if you know something I don't.. apart from him saying in his first and only co-operative interview he had never seen the lady in the photo before I'd like to hear it because apart from that aand maybe SE and his family saying no they did not know one another which yeah I'm way more in the opinion they didn't btw then please do enlighten me because "oh he wasn't sarahs type ... he was below her " etc etc is not evidence or a valid argument unless you knew her personally or you knew him personally it is opinion based and the opinion is tainted by your personal feelings towards the case... Which given it's tragic circumstances it's not surprising but you couldn't care less how many.... I dont care less what your opinion is if you are letting your personal opinions get in the way of clearing up scenarios... You say the idea was abandoned ... Abandoned or people just didn't want to seem disrespectful?

 

[johnlair]

Understood. Just conscious it is hard for us to construct a likely chain of events with so much information missing (police don’t seem to have a clear view either and they have reviewed the footage). We don’t know for sure for instance that he didn’t just physically over power her. I think the police just don’t have visual or forensic evidence that he did. So are surmising he may have talked her into the car. But they could have been having a conversation and then he chased her - the chase not having been caught on camera. But equally he could have somehow talked her into the car using a warrant card although as I think you? Others? On here have mentioned, I would find her complying with a request to get into an unmarked police car by an officer not in uniform very surprising. It’s just not what women do (I have been offered a lift once, by the police, 2 of them, in a marked car - and I still felt more comfortable doing my own thing, it just felt too weird).

I think if you are not expecting something to happen you just stick to your own thing. Although maybe if he was a v good talker and was able to completely disarm her verbally then possibly. Or used lockdown rules as a pretence and maybe kind of spooked her?

I still wonder if he didn’t distract her and maybe used his card as a pretence for a conversation but ultimately overpowered her and bundled her into the car under the cover of the open car doors, partial darkness, sort of quiet road (cars passing, but not immediately next to him as he was on a wide pavement and was able to effect the manoeuvre so quickly she didn’t have a chance to react). I think it may have been quite violent and shocking.

I also think his reason for not talking is that he hasn’t fully reconciled with himself the magnitude of the horror he perpetuated. I think he probably harboured sexually deviant fantasies for a long time, decided to act upon them but hadn’t really thought through and end game. I think he is likely personable, but maybe a bit dim - thought through some things but not others. But he wasn’t really properly processing what the consequences of his actions would be. He maybe imagined a certain scenario but really didn’t consider, brainstorm, scenario plan etc the eventualities.
I think his unraveling and remorse is probably genuine. But that he can’t bring himself to tell the whole exact story because it is so horrific even to him. I am in no way trying to excuse his behaviour. But it does seem to me that he might not be some devious murderous psychopath but and individual who had some sort of disorder that caused his sexual deviancy to escalate. And that if we had a more open conversation about how wrong those sorts of thoughts and violence against women actually are then maybe he could have been treated via therapy at some point and had these urges (or whatever they are) dealt with.

Very well put

 

[Sherlockhames]

... I'm trying to think in this situation exactly how did he get her in the car unnoticed with no struggle etc..

I think the key here is we don’t know for certain that there wasn’t a struggle. There might well have been, it just occurred off camera. I think we have to remember that the cctv footage (which none of us actually seen) will only have captured snapshots or very brief movements from which little can be inferred. All we know is that she was last spotted on one camera by the Astra with the doors open, and then the car was spotted still there about 3 mins later still with doors open but no sign of people. And then it was gone (and tracked via ANPR). 3 mins is a v long time - so perhaps there was a struggle in the car? She ran away and he grabbed her and dragged her back? Or he talked her into the car somehow. We can speculate as to all of the above (as it appears the police are doing). But without evidence, or him talking, that is all we can do. Speculate.

 

[annpats]

Yes, of course I know it is prohibited to own them. But many things are prohibited and still people use them

Just thinking out loud:

Had he illegally used a taser, he may not have 'illegal possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon' on his charge sheet in court, as the police could not have been certain he used one on Sarah, but they could have found one during the search of his home.....unless that was disposed of somewhere, along with Sarah's phone.

 

[Italia]

Re: choice of partner.. he had a good job, sounds quite glamorous from the outside , so I don’t think his wife would think he wasn’t a match for her . Same for SE, but I don’t think he would be her type for loads of reasons, lack of common ground etc but not necessarily a class /money /job thing. But anyway. I am going with what was in court - thru were clear there was zero prior connection between them.

 

[Dotta]

Just thinking out loud:

Had he illegally used a taser, he may not have 'illegal possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon' on his charge sheet in court, as the police could not have been certain he used one on Sarah, but they could have found one during the search of his home.....unless that was disposed of somewhere, along with Sarah's phone.

Disposed? But hey, this is only my hypothesis, nothing more. How would I know?

 

[annpats]

Disposed? But hey, this is only my hypothesis, nothing more. How would I know?

Yes, I think a lot of his sordid life has been disposed along the way.....SD cards, mobile phones, restraint devices, God knows what else.
Again, don't know, just speculating.
But if it's been going on for years, he's hidden it all from his wife and family.

 

[CptShadow]

..a Durham university graduate is not going to be remotely interested in a chavvy, underachiever like him. And that’s being generous.

I don't believe they knew each other because if they did, he'd likely have admitted it as a means of providing 'mitigating circumstances' for the who sorry situation. With that said, if you saw him on his daughter's YouTube channel you'd realise that he isn't at all 'chavvy'. He came across as well-spoken and fairly middle-class.

 

[Dotta]

Yes, I think a lot of his sordid life has been disposed along the way.....SD cards, mobile phones, restraint devices, God knows what else.
Again, don't know, just speculating.
But if it's been going on for years, he's hidden it all from his wife and family.

I dont think he murdered before. He would have been caught. But who knows? As I wrote earlier it is surprising he commited this atrocity when nearly 50 (when men's libido is in decline - Sorry guys) But then I read he used steroids to pack his muscles. Maybe this is the answer to his aggression.

 

[Kitkat28]

Completely agree, a Durham university graduate is not going to be remotely interested in a chavvy, underachiever like him. And that’s being generous. What an absolutely ridiculous suggestion and it’s been debunked in court. The did not know each other!

I’m equally surprised he managed to get a wife so highly educated as well. Perhaps she has self esteem issues.

An elite firearms officer is hardly a “chavvy underachiever”. Is no-one from one social class allowed to mix with another? I think you may be a little over-invested here. Insulting his wife is unnecessary. She’s a victim in all this too.