GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Awaiting Sentencing*, #15

[CptShadow]

I’m not sure why tasers continuously get brought up

Because the issue of how he subdued her so quickly and so quietly is puzzling, and of interest.

as mentioned before any officer who carries one during their shift has to return it when they clock off..

Given what we know about him, would we expect WC to follow the rules, though? He may have procured an unauthorised taser.

it’d be quicker for him to simply punch her (and knock her unconscious) than to attempt to taser her when the affect of a taser lasts for less than a minute.

But length of unconsciousness wouldn't necessarily be any more guaranteed; and the risk of DNA evidence (blood spatter etc) would be higher.

I do also recall an image which someone had managed to find from a traffic camera which was disputed on here with people seeing different things but personally the way I viewed it was that the person in the passenger seat appeared to be slumped against the window.

I think that was pretty much discredited given that it wasn't the right kind/colour of car, and the timings were wrong, I think.

I do believe though that he stopped her and showed his badge claiming his car had broken down and he’d lost battery on his phone and asking her whether he could use his phone to call his wife or something along those lines

Yes, this is very plausible - the issue of how/when he subdued her still remains, of course. Perhaps we'll know when the sentencing hearing opens.

 

[Dotta]

I’m not sure why tasers continuously get brought up, as mentioned before any officer who carries one during their shift has to return it when they clock off.. and tbh it’d be quicker for him to simply punch her (and knock her unconscious) than to attempt to taser her when the affect of a taser lasts for less than a minute. I do also recall an image which someone had managed to find from a traffic camera which was disputed on here with people seeing different things but personally the way I viewed it was that the person in the passenger seat appeared to be slumped against the window.
Also I live in south east London and was regularly in central London for work during all lockdowns and the police were not stopping you (especially if you were alone) to ask where you had been/what you were doing, I do believe though that he stopped her and showed his badge claiming his car had broken down and he’d lost battery on his phone and asking her whether he could use his phone to call his wife or something along those lines, Sarah looks in photos to be kind and trusting and if someone is showing you their badge and asking for help I’m inclined to think she’d agree. I’m not entirely sure how he would then go from that to getting her in the car but up until that point I feel like thats a scenario I could imagine.
JMO of course

Less than a minute is enough time to handcuff and gag a person. More convenient than punching - to punch sb unconscious needs momentum, there is no space enough in the car. It might also involve bleeding. Just MO

 

[MsBetsy]

Also - ballsy of him to show her his warrant card unless he always planned to kill her.

Had he planned to kidnap and rape but always thought he would let her go would he seriously have been so dim as to show her a warrant card? When reporting her ordeal the first thing she would say would be that she was attacked by someone who was/posing as a police offer.

My instinct is still possibly his night time activities were a compartmentalised part of his life. So he wouldn’t take the risk of identifying himself to her.

Unless he really is that arrogant/stupid as to think as a police officer he could have done what he was planning to do but thought he could get away with it.

So either he did show his card, in which case perhaps he did always plan to kill her (and therefore it is in the interests of the police to at least float that possibility to maximise his sentence given how abhorrent that forward planning really was) or he didn’t show her anything and just overpowered her some other way, very quickly so that once she was in the car she was not in a position to escape.

But they will only know that if he talks. But perhaps he can’t/won’t because that means admitting all of his actions to himself (if he was a true psychopath I don’t think he would have pleaded guilty - he would be revelling in the continued power he still has over the narrative and therefore would want to be in court).

Considering his extensive planning ahead of time I think he did intend to kill her. He used the hire car so it would be harder to link him to the abduction, and purchased the plastic film probably hoping that no physical evidence would be found. Imo

 

[annpats]

He prob just got out showed card, talked about Covid/ danger in area , said pls sit in car whilst I take details / fill a form and that was that

Yes, Covid lockdown and random police checks were an ideal excuse.

Thoughts: Police officers aren't allowed to wear their uniform off-duty, and I don't think in this case he did either.

The car was a plain white car and he was probably in civvies, so he most likely pretended to be an undercover cop.
.....which I hope would have made Sarah suspicious. Anyone could have made a fake police ID card.

I wonder if she ran for it, towards the block of flats and he caught up with her? Police were searching the grounds there for several days.

MOO.

 

[johnlair]

Yes, Covid lockdown and random police checks were an ideal excuse.

Thoughts: Police officers aren't allowed to wear their uniform off-duty, and I don't think in this case he did either.

They're not allowed to wear them but they can take them home... In fact some of the neighbors reports from March said they had seen him wearing his police uniform outside his house.
So he may have left it on to go home

Quote I think that was pretty much discredited given that it wasn't the right kind/colour of car, and the timings were wrong, I think.

If it is the image I am thinking of it is the right colour of car and certainly looks like an Astra the timing is at 21.45 which would mean for a much longer timeframe of being in the car though and I'm pretty sure this would have been spotted and mentioned.. and someone here said the driver came forward so I guess it wasn't them it does look suspicious tho and was removed shortly after.

 

[CptShadow]

I wonder if she ran for it, towards the block of flats and he caught up with her? Police were searching the grounds there for several days.

Yes - that's a possibility. The CCTV image of both doors open could be after she got out of the car (if she did, or if she even got in it). Of camera, he may have been chasing/subduing her.

If that's the case, it was an astonishingly brazen abduction scenario. He could have been spotted by anyone looking out of the windows on either side of the street.

 

[CptShadow]

If it is the image I am thinking of it is the right colour of car and certainly looks like an Astra

Ah, was thinking of the earlier CCTV that seemed to show movement, a window going up and down. Yes, this one would fit - but as you say, the person came forward.

 

[johnlair]

June 2015 – Page 3 – City of Dover Police Department

Been trying to find if that indecent assault is logged here

 

[johnlair]

Ah, was thinking of the earlier CCTV that seemed to show movement, a window going up and down. Yes, this one would fit - but as you say, the person came forward.

Well someone said the person came forward I'm not entirely sure myself.. But am sure the police would not have missed this or failed to mention it..

 

[Rosegold68]

I think he held a knife to her. And she froze and became compliant

nothing more

he could then cable tie her hands and feet under threat of one move and the knife gets used. Many women just freeze. They think play it cool and don’t anger him, more chance of getting away then. She would be in shock of some sort. Fight and flight doesn’t always kick in the way we think it might

 

[proclee]

Regardless of WC’s compliance with the law that taser would of been assigned to him at the start of his shift and would of been expected back at the end, he never returned to work after committing the crime so technically if he’d taken that taser home with him the next day he would of received a call asking where the hell that taser is and questions would of been asked.
Taser’s in the UK just aren’t used the way in which they are in the US, even during arrests UK police are much more likely to use other tactics than to deploy a taser. I don’t believe someone would go out their way to acquire a taser either when there’s so many easier options, maybe once she was in the car he immediately gagged her or had a knife or another weapon of sort to threaten her with.
From the start it’s something I’ve also questioned as to how he got her & kept her in the car as we can all come up with ideas of how we’d try to escape (forcing him to crash if he’d locked the doors etc) but realistically he’s bigger than her and she could of simply froze or hoped that complying with him would stop the absolute worst from happening.. we just don’t know

 

[CptShadow]

Fight and flight doesn’t always kick in the way we think it might

You're very right. Have you ever watched those 'scarecam' videos on YT? I'll admit I'm a sucker for them - some are very funny - but something I've noticed and that I *dont* find funny is the number of people who, when given a real shock, just drop to the ground in a sort of foetal position. I remember thinking that's exactly what NOT to do when an attacker jumps out at you - but of course, it's entirely involuntary and instinctual.

 

[Nikynoo]

@johnlair what road/route would the car be taking? Can you plot that clip on a map please?

 

[Nikynoo]

DBM double post

 

[Nikynoo]

June 2015 – Page 3 – City of Dover Police Department

Been trying to find if that indecent assault is logged here

thats not the UK - is it?

ETA - No, it's in the USA

 

[Dotta]

You're very right. Have you ever watched those 'scarecam' videos on YT? I'll admit I'm a sucker for them - some are very funny - but something I've noticed and that I *dont* find funny is the number of people who, when given a real shock, just drop to the ground in a sort of foetal position. I remember thinking that's exactly what NOT to do when an attacker jumps out at you - but of course, it's entirely involuntary and instinctual.

Many years ago while holidying in the countryside I was being chased by a teen. I can tell you - I was flying like an arrow and he never got to me. I even jumped over a high fence. I didnt feel pain or tiredness. I just ran like crazy. Pure adrenaline - I will never forget this incident.

 

[Nikynoo]

@johnlair

This vehice turned right onto Kings Ave - is that correct?

If so, that is off the direct route to Kent. So, why turn right there? Where does this route lead? One possbility is Tooting Common.

 

[cestmoi]

But he may have said I'm part of a surveillance team and someone is following you, please get in or some variation thereof? We simply do not know. What would most women do when spun that line and shown a Warrant Card?

Can't speak for most women, but - honest answer - if it was me? I would get into the car, sit quietly, and trust the person.

It's easy in hindsight to think that all or most women would think something is wrong with this, but without thinking about this case, if I was in that scenario, I know that the Warrant Card would hold a lot of weight, especially being presented with the idea that this officer is trying to protect me.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Of course! She must have been incapacitated early on. I think it happened as soon as she entered the car. Any woman would fight like crazy if a madman was driving her into the night God knows where! Lunging at him even if it might cause an accident. It is my opinion. Was it a taser or sth else? We will never know.

But if he's presented himself as a police officer (which wasn't actually a lie) then I think that that might cause her to fail to realise just how much of a "mad man" he really was for some significant time.

 

[proclee]

Can't speak for most women, but - honest answer - if it was me? I would get into the car, sit quietly, and trust the person.

It's easy in hindsight to think that all or most women would think something is wrong with this, but without thinking about this case, if I was in that scenario, I know that the Warrant Card would hold a lot of weight, especially being presented with the idea that this officer is trying to protect me.

I agree! I know that I couldn’t physically overpower someone or even attempt too and I’ve read plenty of stories where people have tried/managed to reason with their attacker and get them talking in the hope of them sparing you to some extent.. especially if it’s someone like WC who on the surface looks like an average middle aged man (which of course he’s far from)