FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021 #2

[Hope32]

Interesting call from the woman who heard noises and looked outside. She said the pool deck collapsed in a sinkhole. Then the building collapsed in that sinkhole. We know now that there wasn't a sinkhole. But it must have looked like it to her. How terrifying to have witnessed that.

That sounds like what Cassondra Stratton was describing to her husband when she was on the balcony of 410 during the collapse.

 

[Hope32]

Yes, that was a woman who was in an apt with her parents. We never learned her name. Her voice was heard for several hours before she went quiet. IIRC she was pinned between beds. Unfortunately early on fire ignited in the rubble and the smoke likely killed potential survivors. In general there was not much chance of finding voids in the debris pile.

The only people I can think of that was "old" enough be on a phone with her parents that has not be located is Valeria Barth or Angela Velasquez that I could think of that would be a female with her parents. I don't think it would be Deven Gonzalez because she was found and taken to the hospital.

 

[SuziQ]

I've never heard before of such care taken of people's belongings in cases of building collapses, earthquakes etc.

I think they're doing a wonderful and caring thing.

They did this in 9-11 and the Lockerbie crash. I once watched a documentary on the Lockerbie crash. IIRC, The town came together to sort, clean, and organized all of the personal items. Even washing and ironing clothing. It was incredible.

 

[Hope32]

Surfside building collapse: Victims’ relatives react to judge allowing process to sell property

Nicole Lagesfeld and Luis Sadovnic had lived at Champlain Towers South’s unit 804 in Surfside. Their families were outraged when Miami-Dade County Circuit Judge Michael Hanzman approved the sale of the land for commercial use.
...
“It feels like every day there is a new roadblock, but this one is inhumane,” Lagesfeld (victim's brother) said about the judge’s decision.

When I heard they were going to expediate the selling. I was upset for the families as it seemed they weren't going to be able to have a say and won't be able to process the loss. I understand that the judge wants to compensate the families quickly, but it also seems cruel. The families should be able process everything.

 

[SuziQ]

When I heard they were going to expediate the selling. I was upset for the families as it seemed they weren't going to be able to have a say and won't be able to process the loss. I understand that the judge wants to compensate the families quickly, but it also seems cruel. The families should be able process everything.

The Judge told the attorneys something like this (the court cases) was going to be quick. I think he wants to compensate the victims asap and not drag them through an emotional lengthy court process. But he is moving at light speed.

 

[indicolite22]

The only people I can think of that was "old" enough be on a phone with her parents that has not be located is Valeria Barth or Angela Velasquez that I could think of that would be a female with her parents. I don't think it would be Deven Gonzalez because she was found and taken to the hospital.

I think Angela Velasquez was the mother and Theresa her daughter. Theresa and Valeria haven't been identified yet.

ETA: The woman wasn't on the phone. She was talking to the rescuers directly.

Latest NTY graphic floor by floor status

 

[Hope32]

I think Angela Velasquez was the mother and Theresa her daughter. Theresa and Valeria haven't been identified yet.

Latest NTY graphic floor by floor status

you are correct I just mixed them up.

 

[IQuestion]

Mulling over 911 calls. @1:16 AM and 30 seconds a fire call goes to fire/police from Central Alarm Company. The employee/caller identifies himself as Silvio (?) and responds to all of the questions with name of building, various code, license or id numbers and in turn receives a confirmation code "126" (?). So CTS must have had an off site monitoring company. Was there actually a fire that activated an alarm? Did the cloud/dust of debris activate the alarm, or is it possible someone ran out to the hall and activated an alarm to warn others?
So many trapped and scrambling for an escape route. An absolute nightmare...elevators not working, stairs blocked by debris, basement/parking garage collapse & debris blocking escape for some, and others deciding to wade through the water flooding the garage, hoisting the elderly over walls, still others having no choice but back out to exterior balconies and scream to be rescued.
BTW....every time I listen, the male 911 dispatcher was unnecessarily rude and argumentative (to Gabe). IMO he should have helped the caller identify where he was.... When people call 911 they need help, are often confused, traumatized, even injured. For God's sake, it was not the time to argue with the caller...instead ask for clarification in a controlled and concerned voice. "You are standing on a corner...can you read the street sign? Can you see a name on a building? etc. I want to send help so let's figure this out."
Other than "him" I thought the 911 dispatchers were good and some darned right spectacular. (My opinion)

 

[sds71]

@MiamiDadePD

We have identified four additional victims who tragically and unexpectedly lost their lives in the Surfside building collapse. Please keep their families and loved ones in your prayers.

 

[moonriverfarm]

I can’t even wrap my brain around the thought that some of the survivors want the structure rebuilt so they can move back in


911 recordings show panic, disbelief when Surfside condo fell – WSVN 7News | Miami News, Weather, Sports | Fort Lauderdale

“He wants us to start exploring a potential sale,” Goldberg said of the judge in an email. “He did say he wants the land to be sold and the proceeds to go directly to the victims as soon as possible.”

Goldberg said the decision did not necessarily preclude a buyer from turning at least a portion of the site into a memorial, as some people have advocated. Other survivors want the structure rebuilt so they can move back in.

Who would buy the property??? Clearly it would be VERY expensive to develop it, knowing what we know about the land under the building.

 

[Warwick1991]

Who would buy the property??? Clearly it would be VERY expensive to develop it, knowing what we know about the land under the building.

It is still prime land, worth many millions. Any developer working in this area understands the site conditions, and plans for it. The conditions under the collapsed building are likely no different than other oceanfront lots in the same area. The newer building next door, over the municipal boundary in Miami Beach, was very expensive to develop.

 

[IceIce9]

Who would buy the property??? Clearly it would be VERY expensive to develop it, knowing what we know about the land under the building.

Worth 100 to 110 million per the article!
Wondering if there are known potential buyers?

 

[al66pine]

People's Belongings?

I've never heard before of such care taken of people's belongings in cases of building collapses, earthquakes etc. I think they're doing a wonderful and caring thing.

@TootsieFootsie bbm
After Surfside collapse, seems there was extensive staffing from all levels of gov't and more** so collectively there were sufficient responders to handle people's belongings in a 'caring way,' more so than many other disasters.

Top priority is always rescuing humans, but iiuc protocols re "people's belongings" differ, in part depending on cause of event and nature of damage.

W Surfside/similar situations where origin is (may be?) entirely or partly human-caused, part of protocol is preserving the scene/materials as evd for investigation to determine precise cause & liability.

After "natural" cause disasters (e.g., volcano eruptions, earthquakes), protocol would not entail, or at least not prioritize imo, maintaining scene, materials, & people's belongings to the same degree as ^.

Protocols also depend on response teams involved, whether local, county, state level, FEMA fed. level, NGOs (e.g., Red Cross, Israeli team, church groups), etc. and the number of responders present at the scene.

my2ct. Regardless, recovering the Surfside personal belongings is a wonderful thing, like you said @TootsieFootsie. And from 1000+ mi away from there, I'm grateful to the countless people responding.
_________________________________________
* Just thinking generally & based largely on my observations of MSM's disaster coverage. Others may have diff or more accurate explanations.

 

[al66pine]

Personal Belongings?

They did this in 9-11 and the Lockerbie crash. I once watched a documentary on the Lockerbie crash. IIRC, The town came together to sort, clean, and organized all of the personal items. Even. washing and ironing clothing. It was incredible.

@SuziQ Thank you. Yes, in 1988, PanAm Flight 103, an example of man-made catastrophe. Pan Am Flight 103 - Wikipedia

W a commercial airline crash, preserving the scene/materials as evd for investigation to determine precise cause & liability is critical. After Lockerbie crash, the materials & evd. from scene were used for criminal investigations, civil cases, as well as regulatory agencies considering possible amendments to rules & regulations. my2ct.

I'm glad the local residents were able and willing to offer assistance in returning items to victim's families after that tragedy.

 

[IQuestion]

If there was a mortgage on the condo, I could see a bank (first lien holder) asking the judge to sell the property/land in order to recover the bank's investment. ALE (add'l living expense) and contents coverage is a 'no brainer' claim for survivors to receive and insurers to pay out. After that, I think it is going to be a no holds barred onslaught of claims in the court house. Even though the judge wants to have it closed out in one year, and only one "lawyer spokesperson" hmmmm, I doubt it will happen. How can you tell 88 grieving families, from 7 different countries (age, religious and cultural issues to boot) .... only one person gets to present your interests in court to the judge? I have some thoughts... having 2 distinct groups of plaintiffs would be the first.
Anyone local/Florida on this WS thread ever had a total loss claim?

 

[rainynights]

Portion of Apartment Building Roof Collapses in NW Miami-Dade

The roof of a three-story apartment building has partially collapsed in northwest Miami-Dade County, authorities say. Firefighters are conducting evacuations.

Around 4 p.m., Miami-Dade police received calls about the collapse at the apartment building at 17500 NW 68th Avenue. Police say no injuries have been reported during or after the collapse.

Miami-Dade Fire Rescue said it is evacuating the building.

[...]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article252816838.html

Apartment building roof collapses in Northwest Miami-Dade, no injuries reported, police say

 

[SouthAussie]

Portion of Apartment Building Roof Collapses in NW Miami-Dade

The roof of a three-story apartment building has partially collapsed in northwest Miami-Dade County, authorities say. Firefighters are conducting evacuations.

Around 4 p.m., Miami-Dade police received calls about the collapse at the apartment building at 17500 NW 68th Avenue. Police say no injuries have been reported during or after the collapse.

Miami-Dade Fire Rescue said it is evacuating the building.

[...]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article252816838.html

Apartment building roof collapses in Northwest Miami-Dade, no injuries reported, police say

View attachment 304831

Not to go O/T ... but just to add a little more. Thank goodness that everyone seems to be safe.

Built around 1970, a news video says. Not having an easy time with apartment buildings in that area at the moment.
There is some pretty good video out there where you can see that the "awning" part of the roof made a clean break from the rest of the roof.

It is quite a big apartment complex. Several buildings. I imagine they will be checking the entirety of the complex roofs now.


Google Maps

 

[PayrollNerd]

All these old decrepit buildings falling apart, or nearly ready to do so, makes me wonder if the entire southeast FL ground area has been shifting more than anyone expected. Maybe no registered earthquakes but so many repeated weather hits from hurricanes and natural erosion. I also wonder if people don't realize that there is a defined life cycle on building materials, like concrete and wood. Rebar may last a very long time but not concrete and wood. Even with the best ongoing maintenance, materials wear out. Buyers that have bought recently in that quadrant of the state should probably be looking pretty closely at their homes/condos, etc.

 

[sds71]

@MiamiDadePD

We have identified two additional victims that sadly and unexpectedly lost their lives in the tragic Surfside building collapse. Please keep their families and loved ones in your prayers:

It’s been six days since authorities found the body of Maria Gabriela Camou in the rubble of the Surfside condo collapse, but her family says funeral plans must wait until the search crew finds her husband of 40 years, Miguel Kaufman.

“We thought the next day they would find Miguel,” said Maria Ines Camous, whose sister died in the collapse. “God willing, soon. I thought it would be immediately.”

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/lo...ami-beach/article252779593.html#storylink=cpy

Saez — Rosi to those close to her — is one of the Miami residents who died in the devastating collapse of the Champlain Towers in Surfside. Her family was notified July 11 that she had been found.

She lived in South Miami, but that Wednesday she had spent the day with five friends seeing “Van Gogh: The Immersive Experience” at the Olympia Theater. She told Olga Ramudo, president and CEO of Express Travel in the Gables where Rosa worked, that the plan was to have dinner and then, to avoid a long drive home at night, a grown-up “pajama party” at the condo of Maggie Vazquez-Bello, who lived in Champlain Towers.

Three of the women begged off and went home. Saez and Francis Plasencia of Miami decided to stay. The decision — so simple, one anyone could make — has changed her family forever…

The word “strong” is fitting because of how accurately it described Saez. She was one of the first women to earn an MBA at FIU, where she later worked for many years. She retired, but not having a job turned the preternaturally active Saez into “a lion in a cage,” Maza said.

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article252440768.html#storylink=cpy

 

[GatorFL]

All these old decrepit buildings falling apart, or nearly ready to do so, makes me wonder if the entire southeast FL ground area has been shifting more than anyone expected. Maybe no registered earthquakes but so many repeated weather hits from hurricanes and natural erosion. I also wonder if people don't realize that there is a defined life cycle on building materials, like concrete and wood. Rebar may last a very long time but not concrete and wood. Even with the best ongoing maintenance, materials wear out. Buyers that have bought recently in that quadrant of the state should probably be looking pretty closely at their homes/condos, etc.

Southeast FL is a pretty big place so that blanket statement isn't very logical. Most of SE FL has a strong limestone bedrock. While porous it's pretty strong. Geology of Florida - Wikipedia
As noted in the wiki, an earthquake hit in the Atlantic between Jamaica and Cuba in early 2020 and was felt in Miami.

Up here in Palm Beach, but out in the western part of the county there is an issue with the land. It's reclaimed land from the Everglades/Lake Okeechobee's flood plain. The ground literally shrinks every year, it is called subsidence. It's interesting driving out there, the soil dries and shrinks. Common to see buildings that have wood siding at the bottom where the ground has dried up under them. I've seen both residential and commercial buildings that have issues.I'm in the central part of the county. I'm at some elevation, a whopping 17' IIRC and I dig down 6" and hit limestone. No subsidence here and relatively little risk of flooding (knock on wood). SL 311/SS523: Everglades Agricultural Area Soil Subsidence and Sustainability

Post Andrew construction is good for the most part. My house is cinderblock. For hurricane protection the block had holes punched in the bottom every couple of feet and the walls were poured with concrete until it came out the holes at the bottom. Roof strapped to the block. Inspections during construction were good and frequent. Pre Andrew construction, especially from the 1970's and 1980's--I wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole. Numerous shortcuts were taken. I've heard from more than one person in construction that "back in the day" on condo construction they would add too much water to the concrete so it pumped up easier and I guess this changes the calculations on how it handles loads.

I had a conversation this past Saturday with an acquaintance. He's a building inspector for a municipality in Broward. He said all the engineers in the area-and the state-are slammed with work since Champlain. And all of them are reluctant to take on new projects because of liability. I guess they see what is happening to Frank Morabito and Rosendo Prieto and are worried. He also said the attorneys for engineers across the state have been inundated with calls about liability. As for himself he's considering retiring and going into consulting because he sees $$$ and he's close to retirement anyway.

Interesting times for sure.