Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #61

[fred&edna]

I am not glossing over anything because I want MG to be complicit. Nor does it have anything to do with what is or was sexy. People are dead. Six people. Joe Ryan and Alex Cox have not been called murder.

I agree with you. The only glossing over I've seen with regard to MG is her own.

And, also that bishop... he did some glossing over to AZ police.

'Ain't nothin' sexy about any of it. jmo

ETA: IIRC when MG learned of Tammy's death she thought "I wonder how they did it?" (per the Eaton interview). Thus, she knew they had done it, just not how... still she went on to lie to LE about JJ.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I agree with you. The only glossing over I've seen with regard to MG is her own.

And, also that bishop... he did some glossing over to AZ police.

'Ain't nothin' sexy about any of it. jmo

ETA: IIRC when MG learned of Tammy's death she thought "I wonder how they did it?" (per the Eaton interview). Thus, she knew they had done it, just not how... still she went on to lie to LE about JJ.

I watched an interview today with someone who knows her. I can’t link it. When I said she “knew”, it was in the way of Lori being her very close friend and sharing with MG that Charles was a zombie named Ned. They had discussions. She knew he was about to die. I think she was enamored by the thought they could get away with it. We don’t know all their private discussions.

Quite interesting that when she taped her own conversation for the police she said she confronted them for their affair (in my words) but she didn’t tell that she was cheating with David Warwick before she was divorced. All I am saying is that she has tried to present herself in a good light, all the while knowing lots more than she admits. I’m sure police know the details. I am also sure the defense lawyers know it all too. I do feel bad for anyone getting mixed up with Chad or Lori Daybell.

Your reminder of her interview with Nate Eaton is a good one.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Local update: MM was not at the women’s detention center today

 

[Colorado303]

You may wanna hear it again. I disagree with you. Go back to when Charles died, the day before. Then when she talked with Zulema aboutAlex saying she didn’t want to know what happened to JJ, Zulema said “no,you don’t want to know”.
So we disagree.

So Z apparently knew the children were dead from the get go. I know there are a lot of people who think MG and Meliniece should be charged. I’m still on the fence re MG’s degree of guilt, but Meliniece should be in jail by now IMO. However it’s becoming clear Z was at least as bad and possibly the most involved of the theee. I don’t understand why AZ didn’t include her in the conspiracy to kill Charles. And I certainly hope someone is giving Alex’s death another look.

 

[Ruminations]

Wow.

Tricia has approved the following podcast at True Crime Underground. Melanie G is interviewed and members may discuss what she had to say.

The Melanie Gibb Phone Call She Doesn’t Want You To Hear

Wow.

I am speechless, even though there really was not anything new about the murders of significance that I caught. It did seem to me that Melanie didn’t seem to think Alex was murdered- but I could have interpreted her tone/words wrong, and I don’t think she knows.

I feel like I learned a little more about Melanie G and what she knew and when. Not sure what that has to do with the murders - but it gives some insight into a person who drowned herself in cool-aid.

She believes herself a victim of “groups” that she wanted to have special healing powers. I didn’t read her book, but apparently she had had a very traumatic childhood. I can see her having developed the skill of disconnecting from reality. I can see her being drawn to magical healing.
I can see her being all about herself; nobody else was from the tidbits I learned of her childhood.

I don’t think there is any public knowledge that Melanie G has committed a crime. I don’t think there is any public knowledge that she has any immunity or special deals- not that she would need it if I am correct about her criminal culpability.

I can see why people are really angry with her. I could not believe my ears when she talked about Tylee and JJ. It was - in my opinion- and I am not licensed to diagnose- sociopathic. She seemed to only regret- and only slightly- Alex’s death. And perhaps that was because he validated her as she rose a bit from her fog- agreeing that Chad and Lori shouldn’t have done what they did - to Melanie!- as if she were the most important victim.

There is something really wrong with Melanie. I think if she weren’t so damaged she would not have been sucked into the “groups” that have done so much wrong to her, as if she were the biggest victim. If she were not so damaged... she wouldn’t have chosen the same friends. I don’t agree that she would have had more to offer LE- or could have saved lives. She was a kind of enabler- getting her own needs met with these groups, as she calls them.

I was appalled that she was worried that JuR would “look bad,” not worried that JuR will be horrified when bodies are found.

Arising from her fog, motivated by atypical motivators such as not wanting to “look bad,” she made some angering decisions like telling LE half of the lie she was asked to tell for Chad and Lori. But I don’t see evidence of a crime.

I get the anger at Melanie. I don’t get where people are finding her sharing guilt for the most horrific crimes, given public knowledge. I think she is just attracted to the wrong kind of “healing” and shows how damaged she is by reacting to brutal murders in a very abnormal way. I don’t think she intends to harm others meeting her own needs, but she clearly has a lot of needs, and deserves to have them met. That can be true about a person we are angry with.

MOO only.

Edited to add: I think Melanie is doing the best she can to be helpful now. She seems atypically detached from the horror, but that detachment could be what helped her survive this long. I thank her for her help.

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

Melanie G knew it all didn’t she? Yet she was right with Lori, being her friend. She is part of this. MG didn’t know what to say to Charles? How about calling the police? He died? No MG, Charles was murdered. She says the murder was planned!

She’s as big a dimwit as the rest of them! I can not fathom the density of these peoples thought processes and intelligence. It becomes more evident every time they open their mouths. Or “write” a book. Or send a Tweet (yes, I’m including MM in with the rest of them!). Incredible! JMO

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

She believes herself a victim of “groups” that she wanted to have special healing powers. I didn’t read her book, but apparently she had had a very traumatic childhood. I can see her having developed the skill of disconnecting from reality. I can see her being drawn to magical healing.
I can see her being all about herself; nobody else was from the tidbits I learned of her childhood.

There is something really wrong with Melanie. I think if she weren’t so damaged she would not have been sucked into the “groups” that have done so much wrong to her, as if she were the biggest victim. If she were not so damaged... she wouldn’t have chosen the same friends.

RSBM. Famous last, haunting words of this case: “IF (fill in the blank if any key or supporting cast member) weren’t so damaged...”. Each of these characters is broken, and each is oozing out what little to no lightness they carry inside. Their souls are dark and broken; their words are dark and broken; their actions are dark and broken. “If only they weren’t so damaged.” And man, the lives they destroyed in those left behind. It’s incomprehensible the depth and breadth of the heartache they’ve left behind them. If only they weren’t so broken...MOO

 

[pizzaman12]

So Z apparently knew the children were dead from the get go. I know there are a lot of people who think MG and Meliniece should be charged. I’m still on the fence re MG’s degree of guilt, but Meliniece should be in jail by now IMO. However it’s becoming clear Z was at least as bad and possibly the most involved of the theee. I don’t understand why AZ didn’t include her in the conspiracy to kill Charles. And I certainly hope someone is giving Alex’s death another look.

ZP has use immunity. I'm guessing she earned it. I think she'll a key figure. Just my opinion

 

[longtimereader]

She’s as big a dimwit as the rest of them! I can not fathom the density of these peoples thought processes and intelligence. It becomes more evident every time they open their mouths. Or “write” a book. Or send a Tweet (yes, I’m including MM in with the rest of them!). Incredible! JMO

I noticed she said multiple times she was going to stick the core beliefs and reading certain LDS books but immediately goes and finds a man to give her a blessing and he gave her some kind of "reading" (my word) about her situation. She still believes in the dreams and visions as she spoke in depth on her dream. She appeared to enjoy her insider status. She seemed to know she was being recorded because she watched her words. For example, when she passively suggestes that Lori might be in HI because she loves HI, she seemed to be saying that she is in HI. Thinly veiled. I don't think she is super important to the trial. Jmo

 

[dizzychick]

Let's give LVD her Cuckoo pills and get on with it! Does anyone want to speculate on what killed TD? I think Chad let Alex in to do the dirty work as Chad is way too cagey for what he would consider lesser work. Just my opinion but I always thought he let Alex in the house after poor Tammy fell asleep and he took to her with a pillow. God will take care of Alex, Chad will get his in the end if the Great State of Idaho does their job

 

[indicolite22]

So Z apparently knew the children were dead from the get go. I know there are a lot of people who think MG and Meliniece should be charged. I’m still on the fence re MG’s degree of guilt, but Meliniece should be in jail by now IMO. However it’s becoming clear Z was at least as bad and possibly the most involved of the theee. I don’t understand why AZ didn’t include her in the conspiracy to kill Charles. And I certainly hope someone is giving Alex’s death another look.

I don't see proof that ZP knew about the children's murders before or right after they happened. MG talked to her in early December when it was all done. ZP could have got the info from Alex after the welfare check. ZP and/or other cult members will only be charged if there is prosecutable evidence against them. Our opinions that they knew everything aren't enough.

 

[indicolite22]

Wow.


Wow.

I am speechless, even though there really was not anything new about the murders of significance that I caught. It did seem to me that Melanie didn’t seem to think Alex was murdered- but I could have interpreted her tone/words wrong, and I don’t think she knows.

I feel like I learned a little more about Melanie G and what she knew and when. Not sure what that has to do with the murders - but it gives some insight into a person who drowned herself in cool-aid.

She believes herself a victim of “groups” that she wanted to have special healing powers. I didn’t read her book, but apparently she had had a very traumatic childhood. I can see her having developed the skill of disconnecting from reality. I can see her being drawn to magical healing.
I can see her being all about herself; nobody else was from the tidbits I learned of her childhood.

I don’t think there is any public knowledge that Melanie G has committed a crime. I don’t think there is any public knowledge that she has any immunity or special deals- not that she would need it if I am correct about her criminal culpability.

I can see why people are really angry with her. I could not believe my ears when she talked about Tylee and JJ. It was - in my opinion- and I am not licensed to diagnose- sociopathic. She seemed to only regret- and only slightly- Alex’s death. And perhaps that was because he validated her as she rose a bit from her fog- agreeing that Chad and Lori shouldn’t have done what they did - to Melanie!- as if she were the most important victim.

There is something really wrong with Melanie. I think if she weren’t so damaged she would not have been sucked into the “groups” that have done so much wrong to her, as if she were the biggest victim. If she were not so damaged... she wouldn’t have chosen the same friends. I don’t agree that she would have had more to offer LE- or could have saved lives. She was a kind of enabler- getting her own needs met with these groups, as she calls them.

I was appalled that she was worried that JuR would “look bad,” not worried that JuR will be horrified when bodies are found.

Arising from her fog, motivated by atypical motivators such as not wanting to “look bad,” she made some angering decisions like telling LE half of the lie she was asked to tell for Chad and Lori. But I don’t see evidence of a crime.

I get the anger at Melanie. I don’t get where people are finding her sharing guilt for the most horrific crimes, given public knowledge. I think she is just attracted to the wrong kind of “healing” and shows how damaged she is by reacting to brutal murders in a very abnormal way. I don’t think she intends to harm others meeting her own needs, but she clearly has a lot of needs, and deserves to have them met. That can be true about a person we are angry with.

MOO only.

Edited to add: I think Melanie is doing the best she can to be helpful now. She seems atypically detached from the horror, but that detachment could be what helped her survive this long. I thank her for her help.

Very well said. I would agree even without the "damaged" part. MG certainly is an odd character. Her senses of many things are off. That's partly why her type is susceptible to cults. That doesn't mean that she's a murderer. To be clear: If proof comes up later that she was actively involved in people's deaths, she will be prosecuted. She doesn't seem to be worried enough to get immunity.

 

[indicolite22]

I watched an interview today with someone who knows her. I can’t link it. When I said she “knew”, it was in the way of Lori being her very close friend and sharing with MG that Charles was a zombie named Ned. They had discussions. She knew he was about to die. I think she was enamored by the thought they could get away with it. We don’t know all their private discussions.

Quite interesting that when she taped her own conversation for the police she said she confronted them for their affair (in my words) but she didn’t tell that she was cheating with David Warwick before she was divorced. All I am saying is that she has tried to present herself in a good light, all the while knowing lots more than she admits. I’m sure police know the details. I am also sure the defense lawyers know it all too. I do feel bad for anyone getting mixed up with Chad or Lori Daybell.

Your reminder of her interview with Nate Eaton is a good one.

Infidelity isn't one of the charges. Where is the source that MG was cheating on her husband?

 

[GRT]

MG has also expressed doubt about zombies and said Lori frequently expressed doubt about zombies, as early on at minimum as her long-form interview with Nate.

People are just glossing over it because they want MG to be complicit, IMO; and because it's also less sexy, the less sexy stuff being less likely to glom onto people's brains.

Specifically, MG said she was told by Lori that there are zombies in every state; as well as the fact that Chad and Lori saw it as a mission to get rid of zombies through prayer and before the tribulation. I’m sure she glossed over it partly because they were changing their mind every other day on the topic; and I don’t think for a second that MG thought the state of zombification automatically led to murder.

IMO, MG treated it much in the same way anyone treats their friend who gets obsessed with weird ideas – didn’t take it seriously and hoped it would pass on its own, like your mother-in-law’s sudden obsession with political conspiracies. You don’t up and turn them into the police or for psychiatric evaluation the minute they start displaying it.

I pretty much agree with this. I see MG as gullible, but not to the point where she would accept anyone's death.

From the recorded phone conversation, it's apparent to me (JMOO) that MG was not privy to the planning or details surrounding the deaths. That seems to have been kept to Chad, Lori, Alex and, perhaps ZP.

Should MG have sensed something was amiss before she did? I don't know. Hindsight is always 20:20 but it's a different story when it's happening and you have no clue a friend could do something so horrific.

At this point, I don't think MG was complicit. If more information comes forth, my opinion could change, of course.

 

[k-mac]

Has there been anymore thought to a forum for this case?
I feel its a travesty that each of these murders is not entitled to its own space.
Charles doesn't even appear in the title of this thread.
Alex's death too.
The weddings
The poisons
Joe ryan
Attempt on Brandon
The fringe playing enablers.
The autopsies
A family tree

so so much more we are curious about!


Ill flag a mod.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Has there been anymore thought to a forum for this case?
I feel its a travesty that each of these murders is not entitled to its own space.
Charles doesn't even appear in the title of this thread.
Alex's death too.
The weddings
The poisons
Joe ryan
Attempt on Brandon
The fringe playing enablers.
The autopsies
A family tree

so so much more we are curious about!


Ill flag a mod.

On the other hand, I like having everything on one thread so we can view it all together. We can have considerable discussions on all the topics you mentioned. As far as latest news, that can all be found on the news and media thread from first page.

I am hoping charges are brought soon for justice in attempted murder of Brandon Boudreaux. That will really open things up and may require another thread but for now, I enjoy having it all in one location.

I do get where you are coming from though.
This case is so convoluted with so many players. I do think LE is still investigating on so many levels.

As I mentioned upthread I saw an interview on YouTube (Cannot link it) with someone from preparing the people who knew the Daybells and MG well. There are satellite groups all over the U.S. That surprised me.
The interviewee said Chad Daybell broke from the larger group to start his own thing, the grading of people from light to dark, etc. and drew people with him, especially women.

 

[indicolite22]

As I mentioned upthread I saw an interview on YouTube (Cannot link it) with someone from preparing the people who knew the Daybells and MG well. There are satellite groups all over the U.S. That surprised me.
The interviewee said Chad Daybell broke from the larger group to start his own thing, the grading of people from light to dark, etc. and drew people with him, especially women.

SBM. I think you are talking about the interview with Shawn Littlebear. The movement with local chapters was PAP (Preparing a people) which has been disbanded since this case became public. Its founders publicly distanced themselves from Chad. There were other individuals who possibly influenced Chad's doctrine (e.g. belief in multiple probations, light/dark spirits) that were not necessarily members of PAP, with one of them being Chad's friend JR. This was also mentioned in MSM.

ETA: Article with PAP declaration

"Like everyone, we are deeply disturbed over media reports involving Mr Daybell and his new wife Lori Vallow and her two missing children," the statement, plastered across their website since late December, reads.

The Jameses said Ms Vallow appeared on some podcasts submitted by "network partners" and Mr Daybell "was simply one of many speakers" at the Preparing A People series of lectures.

'Deeply disturbed': Company linked to doomsday preppers distances itself during missing kids probe - NZ Herald

ETA2: Article about Chad's influences

Chad seems to have pulled from ideas that were circulating among other visionaries, including some who, like Rowe, had become controversial over the years.

Stroud’s teachings emphasized demonic possession, as well as the ideas of portals that Chad was apparently into.

This emphasis on demonology — that evil spirits may attach themselves to us — seems to have been particularly important to Chad and Lori Daybell. Before Stroud and Rowe, these ideas seem to have been first popularized by another sort of alternative LDS teacher, Douglas Mendenhall.

Chad Daybell’s strange end-times beliefs are not Mormon theology, says historian

ETA3: Chad's influence according to witnesses

“Chad doesn’t have a big group of followers in eastern Idaho,” Amber said. “He just goes around to little groups and gives testimony, tells his story, and people believe in the visions he’s having.”
...
One aspect that seemed to fascinate her ex-husband was the idea of multiple mortal probations, Amber said.
...
Contrary to LDS norms, Amber said her husband began to take another married woman to a Latter-day Saint temple to receive revelation from God.

A look at the religious circle surrounding Chad and Lori Daybell - East Idaho News

 

[Love Never Fails]

SBM. I think you are talking about the interview with Shawn Littlebear. The movement with local chapters was PAP (Preparing a people) which has been disbanded since this case became public. Its founders publicly distanced themselves from Chad. There were other individuals who possibly influenced Chad's doctrine (e.g. belief in multiple probations, light/dark spirits) that were not necessarily members of PAP, with one of them being Chad's friend JR. This was also mentioned in MSM.

I saw that one as well. I don’t think we are allowed to link any here unless approved by Tricia.

As far as the legalities of the case, I like Scott Reisch and we can link him.

I don’t want to see anyone charged if it can’t be proven by prosecutors. However there are a couple I believe could be charged. JMO and all that. We will see.

I’m still trying to decide who was the most evil, Chad or Lori. For now I’m going with Lori because she could have allowed her children to live. Instead Lori did what she has always done. That is to choose herself over everyone.

 

[Ruminations]

RSBM. Famous last, haunting words of this case: “IF (fill in the blank if any key or supporting cast member) weren’t so damaged...”. Each of these characters is broken, and each is oozing out what little to no lightness they carry inside. Their souls are dark and broken; their words are dark and broken; their actions are dark and broken. “If only they weren’t so damaged.” And man, the lives they destroyed in those left behind. It’s incomprehensible the depth and breadth of the heartache they’ve left behind them. If only they weren’t so broken...MOO

Off topic- your post is beautiful prose.

Back on topic - exactly.

We can have compassion for broken people, possibly so much that we don’t feel as angry towards them as we would to others who have done the same bad actions (or inactions). We can be angry with them, possibly so much that we don’t feel as compassionate towards them compared to others who have gone through the same traumas.

Broken people are responsible for their actions, no matter what happened to them. And we are entitled to our individual cocktails of compassion and anger we feel observing them.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Off topic- your post is beautiful prose.

Back on topic - exactly.

We can have compassion for broken people, possibly so much that we don’t feel as angry towards them as we would to others who have done the same bad actions (or inactions). We can be angry with them, possibly so much that we don’t feel as compassionate towards them compared to others who have gone through the same traumas.

Broken people are responsible for their actions, no matter what happened to them. And we are entitled to our individual cocktails of compassion and anger we feel observing them.

Exactly.

I’m not here to understand them, nor defend them. I want justice for those who are murdered. Regardless of how others want to justify them, I want to see justice.

Remember their names:
Tylee Ryan
JJ Vallow
Charles Vallow
Tammy Daybell

Joe Ryan-Alex Cox-Stacey Cope, maybe these can be explained. Maybe not. One thing is clear. The two persons in jail are serial killers and killers of children, which is especially heinous.