Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #5

[RickshawFan]

For experienced hikers/climbers out there, how likely is it, in your opinion, that should ED have had an accident, none of her belongings would have been found, even some ways off trail? I would imagine that the areas surrounding the expected trail would have been searched. No yellow tent? Nothing?

My question is: Does this likely mean that they are searching in the wrong area -that she went another way than to the Refuge de Venasque, etc.- or is it still fairly likely that her remains/belongings are tucked away in brush, etc.

I just find that lack of any trace of her or any of her belongings -not a shoe, pole, etc., amazing. But maybe that's my inexperience talking.

The thing is, although there’s a list of equipment on the dossier, we don’t know for a fact what ED was carrying. This is just my opinion, but I’d venture to bet she had some things that weren’t on the list that should have been on the list (e,g, socks), and left some items behind.
She might not have had the yellow tent-thingy with her, for instance.
Any debris that scattered would have been smashed down by snow, eaten by mice, taken by birds for nest-making.

 

[RickshawFan]

For experienced hikers/climbers out there, how likely is it, in your opinion, that should ED have had an accident, none of her belongings would have been found, even some ways off trail? I would imagine that the areas surrounding the expected trail would have been searched. No yellow tent? Nothing?

My question is: Does this likely mean that they are searching in the wrong area -that she went another way than to the Refuge de Venasque, etc.- or is it still fairly likely that her remains/belongings are tucked away in brush, etc.

I just find that lack of any trace of her or any of her belongings -not a shoe, pole, etc., amazing. But maybe that's my inexperience talking.

IME it’s common that hiking accident victims don’t leave a trail of debris. They “vanish without a trace.”

 

[IrisElizabeth]

With respect, people commit suicide using the means they have available to them. Firearms are more readily available in the US and are more often used. If that was Esther's intention, and we don't know this, she would have used the means available to her, so drowning has to be considered IMO

I mentioned this theory on one of the early threads - ED was very experienced in mountain terrain. If she wished to, it wouldn’t have been hard for her to find a spot where she would not be discovered and let hypothermia take her away.

It was very sad seeing the pic of DC in the Sunday Times piece, he has visibly aged 20 years or so. He looks haunted. I can see why he is wanting to portray the relationship as being perfect as he won’t want to think their problems contributed to the disappearance, but as has been discussed in earlier threads from her posts on Facebook and Instagram, and the fellow hiker’s eyewitness account all was perhaps not well. I hope that Esther’s family are able to get closure soon.

 

[Federico_A]

DC's search map was interesting. The fact that the search has been so intensive and so fruitless implies to me that it is less likely to be suicide and far less likely to have been an accident. In any case I don't think Esther was that depressed or that careless.

I think the balance of probabilities (or simple induction) has shifted and it is now far more likely than it was before to be the case that Esther was the victim of an attack, in which case her body and her backpack are most likely concealed somewhere under rocks in a rocky/foresty area.

Looking at Google Earth, my guess is that would be on the Spanish side around Besurta. This is a broad area of rocks and trees and it would be easy to hide a body around there - in fact, it's probably the only place where it could be done. The French side seems more barren and open, at least as far as the Hospice de France, and I'm guessing she didn't venture that far from the campervan (or even in that direction) because of the time of year and because of the French travel restrictions. Also, as Besurta is at the end of a road, there is a far greater likelihood of encountering other people, meaning non-hikers.

So Esther descends from Sauvegarde, stands at the Port de Venasque and ponders whether to go down to the Refuge de Venasque, but rather than plunging down into the shadows, she decides to take the easier, familiar path down to Besurta (did she stay there before?). That's probably what I would do anyway, as I always find that towards the end of a trip I'm less inclined for more adventures - somehow the appetite for it seems to run out. So she gets to Besurta just as it is getting dark. Unfortunately, there is someone hanging around...

Not sure if this is a new theory, but in the circumstances I think it accords with all the requirements of Occam's razor.

 

[RedHaus]

DC's search map was interesting. The fact that the search has been so intensive and so fruitless implies to me that it is less likely to be suicide and far less likely to have been an accident. In any case I don't think Esther was that depressed or that careless.

I think the balance of probabilities (or simple induction) has shifted and it is now far more likely than it was before to be the case that Esther was the victim of an attack, in which case her body and her backpack are most likely concealed somewhere under rocks in a rocky/foresty area.

Looking at Google Earth, my guess is that would be on the Spanish side around Besurta. This is a broad area of rocks and trees and it would be easy to hide a body around there - in fact, it's probably the only place where it could be done. The French side seems more barren and open, at least as far as the Hospice de France, and I'm guessing she didn't venture that far from the campervan (or even in that direction) because of the time of year and because of the French travel restrictions. Also, as Besurta is at the end of a road, there is a far greater likelihood of encountering other people, meaning non-hikers.

So Esther descends from Sauvegarde, stands at the Port de Venasque and ponders whether to go down to the Refuge de Venasque, but rather than plunging down into the shadows, she decides to take the easier, familiar path down to Besurta (did she stay there before?). That's probably what I would do anyway, as I always find that towards the end of a trip I'm less inclined for more adventures - somehow the appetite for it seems to run out. So she gets to Besurta just as it is getting dark. Unfortunately, there is someone hanging around...

Not sure if this is a new theory, but in the circumstances I think it accords with all the requirements of Occam's razor.

Welcome @Federico_A. Your theory is not new, but it is a more specific version of that scenario. And it sounds plausible (as do many other theories we all have, unfortunately). According to the DC Dossier, ED did stay the previous night (21/11) at Cabane de la Besurtas. And many here suspect ED never crossed the Port into France, as you also suggest, for a wide variety of reasons.

Further, there was no cell service at Besurtas and perhaps not anywhere below the summit of Pic de Sauveguarde. So ED could not tell anyone if she changed her plans or call for help if she felt threatened. Another version of your theory that has been bounced around is ED got to Besurtas that evening (22/11) and hitched a ride back to her van, or tried to. In that scenario she sadly may never have gotten to her destination.

I am curious about what you are seeing via Google Earth. Can you please post images here so we can see the data you are observing? I find your interpretation intriguing.

 

[Federico_A]

Welcome @Federico_A. Your theory is not new, but it is a more specific version of that scenario. And it sounds plausible (as do many other theories we all have, unfortunately). According to the DC Dossier, ED did stay the previous night (21/11) at Cabane de la Besurtas. And many here suspect ED never crossed the Port into France, as you also suggest, for a wide variety of reasons.

Further, there was no cell service at Besurtas and perhaps not anywhere below the summit of Pic de Sauveguarde. So ED could not tell anyone if she changed her plans or call for help if she felt threatened. Another version of your theory that has been bounced around is ED got to Besurtas that evening (22/11) and hitched a ride back to her van, or tried to. In that scenario she sadly may never have gotten to her destination.

I am curious about what you are seeing via Google Earth. Can you please post images here so we can see the data you are observing? I find your interpretation intriguing.

Google Earth is the application version of Google Maps and perhaps uses the same satellite imagery but on Google Earth it is easier to pan, scan and zoom at various angles.

Here's a couple of pics. The first shows the general terrain around La Besurta hut (centre). The second shows a rocky gully a couple of hundred meters away from the hut (top left) which might be a likely place. Presumably the area was searched in the beginning, but maybe at that point they were looking for visible presence and not for something concealed/buried.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Has anyone managed to read the telegraph article about bones being found- it’s behind a paywall.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Has anyone managed to read the telegraph article about bones being found- it’s behind a paywall.

No but I have just read this
Police searching for missing hiker find bones near where she disappeared

 

[RedHaus]

Has anyone managed to read the telegraph article about bones being found- it’s behind a paywall.

Thank you, @Ruthbullock!!! I bit the bullet and did a free registration for a month to get to the article. I don't want to violate the WS 10% quotation rule, so I think it is OK to excerpt this most meaningful bit of information. They may have found a person's remains near Port de la Glere. Whether it is ED is another matter of course.

"A Civil Guard source said: "A mountain runner has found what could be human bones just over the French side of the border at Puerto de la Glera. They appear to be human remains, but it will be up to French police now to analyse them." Another Spanish source said it appeared "90 per cent certain" that they were human remains." French officers have now taken charge of the investigation to try to confirm whether the bones are human and, if so, whose they are. Spanish police sources said the bones appeared to be human."

Source: Bones found near area where missing British hiker Esther Dingley disappeared

 

[StillDiggin]

L B Trust global have issued a statement.
MEDIA RELEASE: ESTHER DINGLEY

LBT Global is aware of the discovery of what MAY be human remains close to the last known location of Esther DINGLEY. We are urgently seeking clarification. The family have been informed of the discovery and we are supporting them now.

Until anything is confirmed there will be NO statement or interviews with any family members. Please be aware this may take days or even weeks.

Registered media will receive updates in the usual way. If you are not on our mailing list or have any enquiries please email media@lbt.global.

PLEASE DO NOT APPROACH THE FAMILY

Ends
Log into Facebook

 

[RedHaus]

For those who may not be familiar with location or terrain of where bones were found today (red circle in first image is just a guess, IMO):



Source: Col de la Glère



Source: Google Earth

 

[Skigh]

Thank you, @Ruthbullock!!! I bit the bullet and did a free registration for a month to get to the article. I don't want to violate the WS 10% quotation rule, so I think it is OK to excerpt this most meaningful bit of information. They may have found a person's remains near Port de la Glere. Whether it is ED is another matter of course.

"A Civil Guard source said: "A mountain runner has found what could be human bones just over the French side of the border at Puerto de la Glera. They appear to be human remains, but it will be up to French police now to analyse them." Another Spanish source said it appeared "90 per cent certain" that they were human remains." French officers have now taken charge of the investigation to try to confirm whether the bones are human and, if so, whose they are. Spanish police sources said the bones appeared to be human."

Source: Bones found near area where missing British hiker Esther Dingley disappeared

If they have found Esther, would it not be probably that her possessions would be near to her body or that some clothing remains are found which could give an indication whether it is likely to be her?

I would have thought that dental or DNA from her bones would be a relative quick procedure.

 

[ZaZara]

Radio Huesca mentions the discovery of a skull

Hallan restos humanos que podrían corresponder a Esther María Dingley

This Thursday, a mountaineer who was hiking near the La Glera pass, in the municipality of Benasque, alerted the Guardia Civil about the discovery of a skull. Members of the GREIM of Benasque located the remains about 100 metres from the pass but on the French side.

Sources close to the investigation indicated that the skull could correspond to Esther Maria Dingley due to the colour and length of the hair. At 6 p.m. the French gendarmerie arrived and took charge of the case.


BBM

 

[Skigh]

Radio Huesca mentions the discovery of a skull

Hallan restos humanos que podrían corresponder a Esther María Dingley

This Thursday, a mountaineer who was hiking near the La Glera pass, in the municipality of Benasque, alerted the Guardia Civil about the discovery of a skull. Members of the GREIM of Benasque located the remains about 100 metres from the pass but on the French side.

Sources close to the investigation indicated that the skull could correspond to Esther Maria Dingley due to the colour and length of the hair. At 6 p.m. the French gendarmerie arrived and took charge of the case.


BBM

Would this have been in the area which was searched after Esther first went missing?

 

[ZaZara]

Would this have been in the area which was searched after Esther first went missing?

absolutely

 

[RedHaus]

Would this have been in the area which was searched after Esther first went missing?

Yes, @Skigh, since it was part of ED's original "loop" itinerary. You can see below her partner has scoured that area as well. I circled in Blue where the remains were found on his GPS tracking map of the 700 miles he has searched this spring / summer. It is stunning these remains were not found previously, but perhaps not surprising.

Source: Esther Dingley: Partner baffled by no signs of her

 

[Skigh]

Yes, @Skigh, since it was part of ED's original "loop" itinerary. You can see below her partner has scoured that area as well. I circled in Blue where the remains were found on his GPS tracking map of the 700 miles he has searched this spring / summer. It is stunning these remains were not found previously, but perhaps not surprising.
View attachment 305707
Source: Esther Dingley: Partner baffled by no signs of her

Thanks for your reply. I have been following the case,but not as closely as some people with experience of the mountains.

 

[ZaZara]

Radio Huesca mentions the discovery of a skull

Hallan restos humanos que podrían corresponder a Esther María Dingley

This Thursday, a mountaineer who was hiking near the La Glera pass, in the municipality of Benasque, alerted the Guardia Civil about the discovery of a skull. Members of the GREIM of Benasque located the remains about 100 metres from the pass but on the French side.

Sources close to the investigation indicated that the skull could correspond to Esther Maria Dingley due to the colour and length of the hair. At 6 p.m. the French gendarmerie arrived and took charge of the case.


BBM

IMO, assuming an accident, one of the possibilities is that vultures got hold of the remains at a certain moment. There are many vultures in the Pyrenees (3 types: Vulture, Griffon vulture, Bearded Vulture). If they did, chances of finding an entire skeleton or many bones are small. Don't know enough about those huge birds to say with certainty that this may have happened between Monday and Thursday when the searches started, but it could be an explanation why nothing was found when the area was searched at the time.

This is all speculation.

I wonder if they manage to locate the backpack.

 

[annpats]

Sorry for these questions, which may not be pretty, but they are important.

Should Esther's body be more than just 'bones'..?
Would the cold temperatures not delay the decomposing process?
I imagined her remains to be more 'mummified'?

....and if the remains aren't Esther, then whose are they? Are any more people missing up there?

 

[RedHaus]

Sorry for these questions, which may not be pretty, but they are important.

Should Esther's body be more than just 'bones'..?
Would the cold temperatures not delay the decomposing process?
I imagined her remains to be more 'mummified'?

....and if the remains aren't Esther, then whose are they? Are any more people missing up there?

Hi @annpats.

Very good questions. Re: your 2nd and 3rd questions, I agree, but can also imagine animals and birds would help the decay.

And here is ZaZara's post that may answer your last question.

Names of hikers still missing in the Pyrenees:

Reinhard Kulosa, 2006
Françoise Dasnois, 2009
Michel Nielsen, 2010
Ferran Camps, 2010
Pierre Brachet, 2012
Esther Dingley, 2020
Andres Funes Monge, 2020

The profile is that of a foreign hiker who was going alone, hence the difficulty in tracking them.

Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3