GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

[Fat Old Man]

A while back if memory serves me correctly. Some older person, was wanting to testify, before they depart this world. On behalf, of George #4. Anyone know if this is going to happen, or would they be perjuring, them self if they wasn't telling the same story as Jake confession?

 

[Covert Operative]

A while back if memory serves me correctly. Some older person, was wanting to testify, before they depart this world. On behalf, of George #4. Anyone know if this is going to happen, or would they be perjuring, them self if they wasn't telling the same story as Jake confession?

They have not mentioned it in court again or deposed that witness that I am aware of. I wonder now if what that person has to testify about will mean nothing or help G4 as they had thought or claimed. (not sure it would have anyway)

 

[IType]

A while back if memory serves me correctly. Some older person, was wanting to testify, before they depart this world. On behalf, of George #4. Anyone know if this is going to happen, or would they be perjuring, them self if they wasn't telling the same story as Jake confession?

BBM
Excellent question! The motion to depose critical witness in GW4's case was filed on March 26, but just a month later on April 22 JW confessed.

If this mystery witness was planning to provide an alibi for GW4 at the time of the murders, JW's confession and agreement to testify against his parents and brother blew that plan clear out of the water. Said witness should be very careful about what they say under oath, if they are granted the chance to be deposed before trial or testify at trial. If this witness is who I think it is, karma just might come back and bite them on the rear-end. JMO

Maybe this motion will be addressed at GW4's upcoming hearing on 9/13/21.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I just wonder why Jake and Angela would keep things like the receipts for the shoes worn during the murders and the original download document of the child custody paperwork from Texas in a box marked (important Stuff) where they going to blackmail both Billy and George the 4th someday????
Just think if you would put the guns in buckets of concrete and burn the clothes you worn the night of the murders why keep something like a Walmart receipt and a document that was made for the state of Texas, knowing that both could put you in jail if caught with them????

 

[Cool Cats]

I just wonder why Jake and Angela would keep things like the receipts for the shoes worn during the murders and the original download document of the child custody paperwork from Texas in a box marked (important Stuff) where they going to blackmail both Billy and George the 4th someday????
Just think if you would put the guns in buckets of concrete and burn the clothes you worn the night of the murders why keep something like a Walmart receipt and a document that was made for the state of Texas, knowing that both could put you in jail if caught with them????

If I knew Angela I would ask her your questions.

The receipts and custody documents in that box...why.. ?

My best shot on this is that the Wagners did not think BCI would know to go to that car lot to search ... Thought they were in the clear ... Didn't know the reach BCI had.

It is a big piece of there doom.

1. death, destruction, or some other terrible fate.
   "the aircraft was sent crashing to its doom in the water"
   synonyms:
   destruction · downfall · grim/terrible fate · ruin · ruination ·
   [more]

VERB
(be doomed)

1. condemn to certain destruction or death.

 

[Dudly]

I just wonder why Jake and Angela would keep things like the receipts for the shoes worn during the murders and the original download document of the child custody paperwork from Texas in a box marked (important Stuff) where they going to blackmail both Billy and George the 4th someday????
Just think if you would put the guns in buckets of concrete and burn the clothes you worn the night of the murders why keep something like a Walmart receipt and a document that was made for the state of Texas, knowing that both could put you in jail if caught with them????

1. How many would think a receipt from Walmart could tie you to a murder?
2. That document may have been deleted. LE has programs to recover deleted files on a computer.

 

[Covert Operative]

I just wonder why Jake and Angela would keep things like the receipts for the shoes worn during the murders and the original download document of the child custody paperwork from Texas in a box marked (important Stuff) where they going to blackmail both Billy and George the 4th someday????
Just think if you would put the guns in buckets of concrete and burn the clothes you worn the night of the murders why keep something like a Walmart receipt and a document that was made for the state of Texas, knowing that both could put you in jail if caught with them????

I can understand keeping the document somewhat. They may have thought some kind of legal issue/challenge would come up in the future about custody and they would whip out that as their proof that it was suppose to be JW/AW.

Not sure why keep the receipt unless she was gonna take those shoes back in case they did not go through with the plan for some reason or she did not count on them being able to match those treads up with those shoes after the shoes were gone. Then she forgot about the receipt.

I think the tub of important papers was found in JW truck, I felt like that tub was suppose to go with them to Alaska but it somehow was forgotten and left behind by mistake in their haste. Most people probably would take a tub of important papers with them when they move. Once they realized it was not with them it was too late.

I do not understand keeping guns and putting on property that is owned by your family. I think about a very recent ongoing case where the man had the two children's remains buried on his own property so there seems to be no understanding why criminals do what they do sometimes.

 

[Dudly]

I can understand keeping the document somewhat. They may have thought some kind of legal issue/challenge would come up in the future about custody and they would whip out that as their proof that it was suppose to be JW/AW.

Not sure why keep the receipt unless she was gonna take those shoes back in case they did not go through with the plan for some reason or she did not count on them being able to match those treads up with those shoes after the shoes were gone. Then she forgot about the receipt.

I think the tub of important papers was found in JW truck, I felt like that tub was suppose to go with them to Alaska but it somehow was forgotten and left behind by mistake in their haste. Most people probably would take a tub of important papers with them when they move. Once they realized it was not with them it was too late.

I do not understand keeping guns and putting on property that is owned by your family. I think about a very recent ongoing case where the man had the two children's remains buried on his own property so there seems to be no understanding why criminals do what they do sometimes.

A detective on a reality show said, it is a good thing criminals are not too smart or we would never catch them. That is pretty accurate...

 

[Cool Cats]

1. How many would think a receipt from Walmart could tie you to a murder?
2. That document may have been deleted. LE has programs to recover deleted files on a computer.

I'm a bit confused because I thought the custody documents were all in the tub from Jake's truck, but then I heard the custody documents were found on Angela's confiscated laptop computer, the one seized at the Montana Canadian boarder.

Perhaps from both places they retrieved the documents.

I never thought about it but I think that yes it is possible that a Wagner, most likely Angela or Jake, deleted the documents off the laptop. Too bad for them that BCI is a
bastion of cyber know-how.

 

[Dudly]

I'm a bit confused because I thought the custody documents were all in the tub from Jake's truck, but then I heard the custody documents were found on Angela's confiscated laptop computer, the one seized at the Montana Canadian boarder.

Perhaps from both places they retrieved the documents.

I never thought about it but I think that yes it is possible that a Wagner, most likely Angela or Jake, deleted the documents off the laptop. Too bad for them that BCI is a
bastion of cyber know-how.

I thought they had found two versions of the custody documents. One as downloaded and one as altered to fit their use. I could be wrong....

 

[Cool Cats]

I thought they had found two versions of the custody documents. One as downloaded and one as altered to fit their use. I could be wrong....

Ahh...that makes sense.

That they found documents on the laptop, and then found in Jake's truck the printed out documents that had the fake signatures and fake dates.

One set on the computer, and then the actual papers that they down loaded and printed out in Jake's truck.

Downloading and printing out documents is no crime. You can do it to your hearts content without consequences.

But the Wagners printed them out and then did the fake dates and fake signatures which crossed the line.

Thanks Dudly.

PS. I still don't understand how this could be illegal if they never tried to actually use the documents in court. Like why is it illegal to have them just sitting around unused? I just don't get that part of it.

 

[IType]

Ahh...that makes sense.

That they found documents on the laptop, and then found in Jake's truck the printed out documents that had the fake signatures and fake dates.

One set on the computer, and then the actual papers that they down loaded and printed out in Jake's truck.

Downloading and printing out documents is no crime. You can do it to your hearts content without consequences.

But the Wagners printed them out and then did the fake dates and fake signatures which crossed the line.

Thanks Dudly.

PS. I still don't understand how this could be illegal if they never tried to actually use the documents in court. Like why is it illegal to have them just sitting around unused? I just don't get that part of it.

Is the reason the documents are illegal, even if unused, because RN's signature and notary seal are forged?

 

[Dudly]

Ahh...that makes sense.

That they found documents on the laptop, and then found in Jake's truck the printed out documents that had the fake signatures and fake dates.

One set on the computer, and then the actual papers that they down loaded and printed out in Jake's truck.

Downloading and printing out documents is no crime. You can do it to your hearts content without consequences.

But the Wagners printed them out and then did the fake dates and fake signatures which crossed the line.

Thanks Dudly.

PS. I still don't understand how this could be illegal if they never tried to actually use the documents in court. Like why is it illegal to have them just sitting around unused? I just don't get that part of it.

Well, they were forged documents intended to be used for illegal purposes...

 

[Cool Cats]

Is the reason the documents are illegal, even if unused, because RN's signature and notary seal are forged?

This could be the reason, makes sense.

 

[Cool Cats]

Well, they were forged documents intended to be used for illegal purposes...

I can have a gun and gas in my house for murder and arson but it's not illegal until I actually go out and commit murder and arson. Seems you would actually have to commit the crime to get arrested for it.

 

[IType]

I can have a gun and gas in my house for murder and arson but it's not illegal until I actually go out and commit murder and arson. Seems you would actually have to commit the crime to get arrested for it.

I found some info online about U.S. code for forged documents but don't know how to copy and paste from my phone. So, this is just my opinion based on what I read.

I understand it to say that just being in possession of forged documents is a felony. iMO

 

[IType]

I found this, specific to Ohio:

Forgery in Ohio is defined in the Ohio Rev Code 2913.31 as signing another person’s name on a document, changing a document without proper authority, creating a false ID or altering one to contain false information, using a false ID or forged document (an act known as “uttering,” or being found in possession of a false document with the intent to use it.

https://www.danmargolis.com/theft/forgery-attorney/

 

[Puzzles8]

I can understand keeping the document somewhat. They may have thought some kind of legal issue/challenge would come up in the future about custody and they would whip out that as their proof that it was suppose to be JW/AW.

Not sure why keep the receipt unless she was gonna take those shoes back in case they did not go through with the plan for some reason or she did not count on them being able to match those treads up with those shoes after the shoes were gone. Then she forgot about the receipt.

I think the tub of important papers was found in JW truck, I felt like that tub was suppose to go with them to Alaska but it somehow was forgotten and left behind by mistake in their haste. Most people probably would take a tub of important papers with them when they move. Once they realized it was not with them it was too late.

I do not understand keeping guns and putting on property that is owned by your family. I think about a very recent ongoing case where the man had the two children's remains buried on his own property so there seems to be no understanding why criminals do what they do sometimes.

I also think the tub of "Important Papers" was found in Jake's truck. I agree they intended to take it to AK. But I think it was found in Jake's truck during the 41 search. In Discovery (from the 41 search) are 802 "miscellaneous documents". I can only wonder what was included in those documents, custody documents, receipts, etc.?

The W4 seemed to have a heads up the FWF was going to be raided, so they tried to hide their trucks and trailers full of their important possessions on the 41 property. IMO, these were the same trucks and repacked trailers they soon drove to AK.

JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Jake kept his cell phone even though the rest of his family wanted him to get rid of it, it had the gun list of the murder weapons on it, also why put a Walmart receipt in a box that contains other items to point to the Rhodens/Gilley Massacre, I got a feeling that Jake and Angela was going to use those items to gain the Wagners family fortune after FW’s death, Angela and Jake are both conniving human beings.
One more thing I want to ask, Did the Wagners have any kind of Life Insurance on HMR, or did SW collect a insurance policy from HMR work place, that Jake would have had access to, remember Jake tried to gain $20,000 from go fund me account for HMRs death and false lawyer experience, just wondering if this could be part of the conspiracy????

 

[Cool Cats]

Jake kept his cell phone even though the rest of his family wanted him to get rid of it, it had the gun list of the murder weapons on it, also why put a Walmart receipt in a box that contains other items to point to the Rhodens/Gilley Massacre, I got a feeling that Jake and Angela was going to use those items to gain the Wagners family fortune after FW’s death, Angela and Jake are both conniving human beings.
One more thing I want to ask, Did the Wagners have any kind of Life Insurance on HMR, or did SW collect a insurance policy from HMR work place, that Jake would have had access to, remember Jake tried to gain $20,000 from go fund me account for HMRs death and false lawyer experience, just wondering if this could be part of the conspiracy????

No. Money wasn't involved. <modnsip>

Some of the Rhodens had life insurance that went to their funerals but none of it was involved in the motive.

The evil of money wasn't the motive. Except Angela would get social security for the 2 kids which she likely wanted....2 Cents