GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

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MO Theory
Wagners may have wanted KR gun for a cruel and bizarre reason.
They are monsters.

If KR were shot first, W's could have used his gun at UHR to cause confusion, make it seem as if KR had been there and then went home, committed suicide.
I dislike even typing this theory let alone thinking about the possibility of it.

I believe it happened as you describe, with AW and Billy.

The entire scenario of what really happened at Left Fork is a complete mystery.


I agree, they may have had a plan that included a twist with KR but that plan fell through due to things that happened at another residence. Him being shot one time does tend to make one wonder if they had a plan that did not work out.
 
Covert Operative, please forgive my forgetful self, but wasn't there a document that you posted that noted GW4's attorneys were given the evidence from Jake's confession on the same day as GW4's last hearing? I seem to recall that but ICBW.

IOW, I think GW4 and his attorney have had that evidence for a while now. That's why we were all waiting to hear something from his attorney WRT a second plea deal, this time from GW4.
From Supplemental Discovery 6-21-21:

Items hand delivered to GW4 attorney on 6/21/21

Jail calls JW parts 1, 2, 3
JW plea form, defendant's agreement, proffer letter

BBM--GW4's attorney was provided with the proffer letter on 6/21/21. In my post 489 in this thread, I copied from GW4's court docket that the proffer is 10 hours long. Since a letter was provided on 6/21/21, I am assuming the 10 hour long proffer to be provided by August 2 is audio and/or video recordings. I think maybe just audio recordings since the docket also mentions parts 1, 2 and 3 of jail calls with JW. JMO
 
MO Theory
Wagners may have wanted KR gun for a cruel and bizarre reason.
They are monsters.

If KR were shot first, W's could have used his gun at UHR to cause confusion, make it seem as if KR had been there and then went home, committed suicide.
I dislike even typing this theory let alone thinking about the possibility of it.

I believe it happened as you describe, with AW and Billy.

The entire scenario of what really happened at Left Fork is a complete mystery.

It was interesting how a similar rumor (of KR's death being a "suicide") took hold quickly on social media shortly after he was found deceased. DS certainly never seemed to think that was the case and he was the one who found him.

If the Wagners were going to frame KR, they would have needed to return his gun to his camper, though. Nothing the Wagners plotted would surprise anyone, though.
 
From Supplemental Discovery 6-21-21:

Items hand delivered to GW4 attorney on 6/21/21

Jail calls JW parts 1, 2, 3
JW plea form, defendant's agreement, proffer letter

BBM--GW4's attorney was provided with the proffer letter on 6/21/21. In my post 489 in this thread, I copied from GW4's court docket that the proffer is 10 hours long. Since a letter was provided on 6/21/21, I am assuming the 10 hour long proffer to be provided by August 2 is audio and/or video recordings. I think maybe just audio recordings since the docket also mentions parts 1, 2 and 3 of jail calls with JW. JMO

Thanks, that's it. I agree, the 10 hr long piece of evidence is likely video/audio of Jake's detailed confession and discussion with the prosecutors. The proffer itself shouldn't be that long. It's the formal written agreement or contract between the prosecution and Jake - the terms of his guilty plea, etc. It's like a contract.

We can assume the other 3 Wagners attorneys will next ask for the 10 hr audio/video to be transcribed, adding several more months to this process.
 
So GW4 may not yet have seen everything Jake said to and did for the prosecution. How many think when GW4 does see everything his brother has admitted and explained in detail that he'll accept a plea? What are the odds? I think 80/20 he will plea.

BBM

"His younger brother, 28-year-old Edward “Jake” Wagner, pleaded guilty two months ago and agreed to cooperate in the cases against the other three defendants under a deal to help all four avoid potential death sentences. Prosecutors have said he provided a full account of what happened, plus information that led to them to more evidence.

Attorneys for George Wagner IV said Monday they haven’t yet seen what Jake Wagner provided to prosecutors but expect to get that information from them by an early August deadline."

Man's trial in 8 slayings set for April after brother's plea
Just a side note--This article is from 6/21/21, GW4's latest hearing. On this same day, his attorney was provided the proffer letter and info on JW's plea.
 
Just a side note--This article is from 6/21/21, GW4's latest hearing. On this same day, his attorney was provided the proffer letter and info on JW's plea.

True, though GW4's attorney complained in the hearing that day about not having access to the proffer agreement, he'd been given it that day. He's done this before, IIRC.

Based on past complaints by the defense attorneys in this case and later corrections by the prosecution, you can't always believe what some of the defense attorneys claim. Sometime its a bit of exaggeration.
 
I've never heard anything about KR's gun. The Wagners had their own weapons, why would they need KR's gun?

It was a small area, a 5th wheel type camper. I always assumed one of the Wagners had been there before, cased it, made friends with the dogs and knew where KR slept. They would only need to open the door, step in turn and shoot him in his sleep. IIRC, only one shot was fired.

I, too, would like to know when KR's murder happened. According to the preliminary autopsy reports, his TOD wasn't that much different from the others, with the exception that Chris Sr's TOD was believed earliest of all the victims.

The thing to keep in mind, knowing there were multiple weapons and vehicles used to kill the family members, is that the Wagners may have had one person go to kill KR, while the others killed the family members on Union Hill Rd.

Perhaps they were in teams with AW going with Billy down to Left Fork Rd.
I've had the same thought about them being in teams, but I've always had a mental picture of the teams being AW/JW at FR's first then DR's and BW/GW4 at CRSR's first then KRs. I could be totally wrong, though. JMO
 
Just a side note--This article is from 6/21/21, GW4's latest hearing. On this same day, his attorney was provided the proffer letter and info on JW's plea.
Ten hours of explanation on video by his younger brother must have been an eye opener. If GW4 has seen it, I'd think it would have to change his mind on going to trial.
 
Thanks, that's it. I agree, the 10 hr long piece of evidence is likely video/audio of Jake's detailed confession and discussion with the prosecutors. The proffer itself shouldn't be that long. It's the formal written agreement or contract between the prosecution and Jake - the terms of his guilty plea, etc. It's like a contract.

We can assume the other 3 Wagners attorneys will next ask for the 10 hr audio/video to be transcribed, adding several more months to this process.

I believe the proffer agreement is not long but the proffer itself is 10 hours and more than likely is a video but could be or also be written. G3 lawyer accused them of trying to hold the proffer hostage in their last motion basically.

AW lawyer has not asked for anything in regard to his confession. I guess they could have it all but its doubtful.
 
I think you could be right about this, if that method were totally protective.

What I wonder about is the threats (those referred to in the discovery, etc against De Wine, various LE) W's made if one of them were arrested.
How would they carry out a threat without their guns?
They must have had at least one weapon in their possession.
I don't see W's living weapon free.
Maybe they had easy access to obtaining more weapons.
MO
BBM--I feel very confident in stating IMO the W4 owned many guns, not just the three used in the murders, especially since they were avid hunters/outdoors folks.
 
Ten hours of explanation on video by his younger brother must have been an eye opener. If GW4 has seen it, I'd think it would have to change his mind on going to trial.

If the worse he will get at trial is LWOP and that is the best plea deal he could get, LWOP, why do you think it would change his mind?
 
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Just a side note--This article is from 6/21/21, GW4's latest hearing. On this same day, his attorney was provided the proffer letter and info on JW's plea.

The proffer letter/agreement and a proffer are different things. They want the proffer itself is how I understand it.
 
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I've never heard anything about KR's gun. The Wagners had their own weapons, why would they need KR's gun?

It was a small area, a 5th wheel type camper. I always assumed one of the Wagners had been there before, cased it, made friends with the dogs and knew where KR slept. They would only need to open the door, step in turn and shoot him in his sleep. IIRC, only one shot was fired.

I, too, would like to know when KR's murder happened. According to the preliminary autopsy reports, his TOD wasn't that much different from the others, with the exception that Chris Sr's TOD was believed earliest of all the victims.

The thing to keep in mind, knowing there were multiple weapons and vehicles used to kill the family members, is that the Wagners may have had one person go to kill KR, while the others killed the family members on Union Hill Rd.

Perhaps they were in teams with AW going with Billy down to Left Fork Rd.

Your quote:

"I've never heard anything about KR's gun. The Wagners had their own weapons, why would they need KR's gun? "

I agree, the Wagners would not need Kenny's gun.

Kendra said he kept a gun near his pillow but it was missing. She didn't know if LE took it. I don't think a Wagner took it, the Wagner's had enough to worry about with burying their own 22, 33 and 40 to put in cement to avoid metal detectors.

They still had hunting rifles and shotguns. Something about bears in Alaska was mentioned and they were told to keep their guns handy or something to that effect...

Why did Ohio family named in Rhoden massacre investigation move to Alaska?

"We got bears up here. I told them they better have a gun loaded and handy and to keep an eye on those little ones,'' Conklin said from his home Tuesday morning. "The bears up here will snatch them kids right up."

The Wagner family from Ohio didn't know about the bears and thanked him. They also told him they had a shotgun.

But I don't believe the Wagners would be honest about the guns they have. They could have had an arsenal for all we know. All they did was lie.
 
It was interesting how a similar rumor (of KR's death being a "suicide") took hold quickly on social media shortly after he was found deceased. DS certainly never seemed to think that was the case and he was the one who found him.

If the Wagners were going to frame KR, they would have needed to return his gun to his camper, though. Nothing the Wagners plotted would surprise anyone, though.

They would have needed to return his gun or a gun to his camper after the murders and maybe a pair of Walmart shoes. If that had been a plan I think it went south real fast.
 
Ten hours of explanation on video by his younger brother must have been an eye opener. If GW4 has seen it, I'd think it would have to change his mind on going to trial.
An eye opener for sure! BW and GW4 have hearings in mid September. Maybe more info will be brought to light about any other plea changes possibly in the works. But, as other posters have stated recently, the other three W4 may decide to go ahead and go to trial since the DP is off the table per JW's agreement. It would buy them a lot of time to stay in custody at a local level before they have to go into state prison. JMO
 
Your quote:

"I've never heard anything about KR's gun. The Wagners had their own weapons, why would they need KR's gun? "

I agree, the Wagners would not need Kenny's gun.

Kendra said he kept a gun near his pillow but it was missing. She didn't know if LE took it. I don't think a Wagner took it, the Wagner's had enough to worry about with burying their own 22, 33 and 40 to put in cement to avoid metal detectors.



Why did Ohio family named in Rhoden massacre investigation move to Alaska?

"We got bears up here. I told them they better have a gun loaded and handy and to keep an eye on those little ones,'' Conklin said from his home Tuesday morning. "The bears up here will snatch them kids right up."

The Wagner family from Ohio didn't know about the bears and thanked him. They also told him they had a shotgun.

But I don't believe the Wagners would be honest about the guns they have. They could have had an arsenal for all we know. All they did was lie.

I never knew KR daughter said it was missing. I remember an article where she said she wondered if it was.

Kendra Rhoden wonders if the loaded gun her dad kept near his head while he slept was also taken. She also doesn’t understand why her light-sleeping father wasn’t startled awake before he was shot once in the right eye.

Ohio family clings to hope 3 months after 8 killed | wkyc.com
 
BBM--I feel very confident in stating IMO the W4 owned many guns, not just the three used in the murders, especially since they were avid hunters/outdoors folks.
I agree with you on the statement about W's owning many guns. I think about the various searches of FWF, all W properties, and wonder if other guns were confiscated.
There are bits of discovery info. under seal, so we can only guess.
If the W's did take KR gun, and the "plan" failed, that gun in W possession, would be like a hot potato.
 
I agree, they may have had a plan that included a twist with KR but that plan fell through due to things that happened at another residence. Him being shot one time does tend to make one wonder if they had a plan that did not work out.
Him being shot only once has always stuck in my mind as odd, compared to the other victims.

Another thing that puzzles me is, according to JW's confession, there were three guns used in the murders. There were four murderers. There were two vehicles used.

1. Did one person use someone else's gun to shoot a victim, or was there one person who never pulled a trigger?
2. Who were the getaway drivers?
 
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