Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #61

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I think she didn't want to discuss her feelings, but I suspect she fell into a deep infatuation with both JR and JB. A whole day of 'energy healing' sessions could certainly stir up intense emotions that drew her into an emotional affair that almost led to adultery.

People have described it as being hit by Cupid's arrow, or taking a love potion, or being thunderstruck, or addicted to dopamine produced in the brain, or subconsoncious desires from childhood suddenly being awoken, etc, etc. IMO hypnosis is as good a word as any, the point being it was not in her control.

Still not buying it. I think she uses the word to absolve herself of personal responsibility. How are our actions not under our control? She wasn't under the influence of any substance that we know of. There was no gun to her head. Is she insinuating that she was honestly and truly hypnotized? By a hypnotist? JR? JB? I mean, she was somehow able to get back control of herself, right? As in, she didn't take it any further. So she just "snapped out of it"? MOO.
 
Not for me.

I know there were a bunch of burner phones.
I recall the story that CV paid for a ridiculous number of cell phones for his wretched in laws.

Any possibility your brain is combining stories? JMO

My recollection is the CV paid for 11 contract phones. I do not recollect ever encountering a description of him paying for burner (prepaid+disposable) phones for business purposes. It is, of course, possible, that Lori used joint account money to purchase the 60 phones for use by the inner circle.
 
Not for me.

I know there were a bunch of burner phones.
I recall the story that CV paid for a ridiculous number of cell phones for his wretched in laws.

Any possibility your brain is combining stories? JMO

I'll have to say, maybe for now. I'm going to go through my notes tomorrow, see if I wrote anything down. It just seems clear in my mind, so clear. But yes, a maybe.
 
IMO, without the murders and murder attempts there would be no criminal investigation. PAP has shut down after this case broke and so did HS's forum, both likely out of fear of excommunication, but others like AVOWand JR continued with their business as usual - some quite successfully. I consider the wider group to be people who believed in multiple probations, were told by Chad (or others) about their past lives, etc. Some of them were closer to other gurus than Chad. I'm not sure if they needed burner phones if they weren't doing anything illegal. So far, Chandler PD documents indicate that Lori had 6 phone numbers, MBP 4 and Tylee, Chad and Alex 2 each. There's no sign that JR was being investigated for the murders.
Yes, it seems to me, the broad 'LDS prepping' thing drew people together and they bonded over it on social media and events.

But once they'd prepped enough, the bonds were still there but they wanted something new to share with these special friends.

It's like LDS prepping became a carnival: you'd buy your ticket and in one tent the show would be multiple probations, another tent was a show about the approaching doomsday, JR was in big tent, she was a real carnival queen. Chad was initially just out there, hawking JR's books.

JR was evidently really into her intuitive visions, the ability to psychically predict the future ie who would die soon. But rather than set up a crystal ball and do individual readings, she turned to 'energy healing'. That's very interesting to me, it's all about people having dark, negative energy, but she works with them to draw it out and turn them light.

IMO Chad wanted the biggest tent, the whole show, and took bits and pieces of all this stuff to combine it into Prophet Chad.

IMO he overlapped with all of these groups, ie gave a date to the doomsdayers and a plan to respond, he gave multiple probation insights to people into that, gave psychic light/dark energy readings about people, did future predictions as to who would die. But, unlike the others, IMO he wasn't interested in healing others, or exploring his faith, or (like some of the guys) just getting laid, or even just making money. I think he really believed his own PR, whereas for others it was just a fad.
 
Tuyuyuiihu




,vZ nggjjjy


Interesting.

I, too would love to know more about the alleged business Pool of phones.

Occasional personal use seems harmless to me... as long as the personal use does not rise to the level that the phones are not really needed as an expense for the business. If the phones are really to hand out to extended family - that is no longer a legit business expense.

*****moving on*****

If these alleged phones were used as “burner” phones to commit crimes- well that’s missing the point. They are supposed to be burned- duh- that’s where they got there name.

Apparently Alex introduced a new “burner” number with a text, “Hi, it’s Alex,” or something like that. I don’t know at all if the supply of phones came from Charles’ business or not. But if it did, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised how NOT slick they were.

It also adds to the point that Charles, even if the mil had panned out for Lori and Chad, was worth more alive than dead.

*****

@DI Isokawa, I would love to hear anything relevant to this case you have found going into Charles’ business in depth. @DI_Isokawa




Edited to add: I didn’t notice I was in bold, or that those letters were typed above the quote box. I’m going to leave it in affection for my cat. I think he was trying to order sushi from Uber Eats or something while I left my I-pad unattended.
I love the fact that posters say Charles was worth more alive than dead. I hope that Lori is realizing how very stupid her choices are. We would all have a good laugh on Lori if only Charles had survived this ordeal. If only.
 
I believe that phone call shows consciousness of guilt because neither of them showed emotion even though they knew two bodies were buried there.
It wasn't just the phone call. When reporters questioned them on camera in Hawaii as to the children's whereabouts, they either stayed silent or lied that they were safe. The kids were already dead and buried in the backyard.
 
My recollection is the CV paid for 11 contract phones. I do not recollect ever encountering a description of him paying for burner (prepaid+disposable) phones for business purposes. It is, of course, possible, that Lori used joint account money to purchase the 60 phones for use by the inner circle.

Yeah, if/since you did research into Charles' business, I'd definitely go with your assessment; because I don't remember anything about the origin of the 60 burner phones. IIRC they just appeared in the recitation...
 
It wasn't just the phone call. When reporters questioned them on camera in Hawaii as to the children's whereabouts, they either stayed silent or lied that they were safe. The kids were already dead and buried in the backyard.
Yes. There were a lot of denials of that sort. If I am a juror it just shows me how absolutely cold hearted they were and are. I would have no problem finding them guilty.
 
I think she didn't want to discuss her feelings, but I suspect she fell into a deep infatuation with both JR and JB. A whole day of 'energy healing' sessions could certainly stir up intense emotions that drew her into an emotional affair that almost led to adultery.

People have described it as being hit by Cupid's arrow, or taking a love potion, or being thunderstruck, or addicted to dopamine produced in the brain, or subconcious desires from childhood suddenly being awoken, etc, etc. IMO hypnosis is as good a word as any, the point being it was not in her control.
Every person has choices. I’m not falling for this bull.
 
My recollection is the CV paid for 11 contract phones. I do not recollect ever encountering a description of him paying for burner (prepaid+disposable) phones for business purposes. It is, of course, possible, that Lori used joint account money to purchase the 60 phones for use by the inner circle.

Not sure if they were burner phones, but pretty sure Kay mentioned in a chat that Charles paid for all the phones used by the family . That could have been done by adding users to a plan. Somehow I had the impression he had perhaps bought a bunch of phones wholesale, but maybe that was wrong. Could be the burner phones are unrelated to the phones purchased by Charles.

.
 
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I will say that I do believe in Little Red's description of what happened to her as being hypnotic. I did not used to believe in hypnosis, and I know a lot of people think they would not be suseptible to it. I thought that about myself, as well.

Through the years I have come to believe in the power of "suggestion" when one is in a "suggestible" state, such as trance, which is hypnosis.

Trance states are easily induced, when watching TV, listening to music, praying, chanting, dancing etc. Then you find yourself buying the product that was advertised. And everyone is suseptible to it, whether they know they are nor not. Religions are especially good at inducing trance states in believers.
 
Yes, it seems to me, the broad 'LDS prepping' thing drew people together and they bonded over it on social media and events.

But once they'd prepped enough, the bonds were still there but they wanted something new to share with these special friends.

It's like LDS prepping became a carnival: you'd buy your ticket and in one tent the show would be multiple probations, another tent was a show about the approaching doomsday, JR was in big tent, she was a real carnival queen. Chad was initially just out there, hawking JR's books.

JR was evidently really into her intuitive visions, the ability to psychically predict the future ie who would die soon. But rather than set up a crystal ball and do individual readings, she turned to 'energy healing'. That's very interesting to me, it's all about people having dark, negative energy, but she works with them to draw it out and turn them light.

IMO Chad wanted the biggest tent, the whole show, and took bits and pieces of all this stuff to combine it into Prophet Chad.

IMO he overlapped with all of these groups, ie gave a date to the doomsdayers and a plan to respond, he gave multiple probation insights to people into that, gave psychic light/dark energy readings about people, did future predictions as to who would die. But, unlike the others, IMO he wasn't interested in healing others, or exploring his faith, or (like some of the guys) just getting laid, or even just making money. I think he really believed his own PR, whereas for others it was just a fad.
Such a descriptive and almost amusing overview of religion, prepping and doomsday thinkers and followers, hanger-ons and profiteers all rolled into seemingly normal looking church folk!
LSD kept jumping out instead of LDS, visions indeed!
 
Still not buying it. I think she uses the word to absolve herself of personal responsibility. How are our actions not under our control? She wasn't under the influence of any substance that we know of. There was no gun to her head. Is she insinuating that she was honestly and truly hypnotized? By a hypnotist? JR? JB? I mean, she was somehow able to get back control of herself, right? As in, she didn't take it any further. So she just "snapped out of it"? MOO.

i buy it...........sort of.

The whole time I was listening to the tape, I felt they were heavy into covering their own butts, and were able to go back and redefine what actually transpired. And it appears to me that the very religious stuff that got them into this in the first place was their crutch to get out of it. "God wouldn't allow this"... and so on. I really felt a lack of true individual responsibility with the entire interview.

However, these types of group sessions are designed to create emotional connection...... and when the deeper purpose of the sessions was a sort of mind control.... I can easily see one falling in slowly, slowly, slowly because it felt like the "right" thing to feel and do.

I think the key for me to "buy" it is their constant reference to the others who are too embarrassed to speak up....

I wish they would speak up though...to validate just how evil these LDS offshoots can be.

There must just be something in core LDS beliefs that makes people vulnerable to this need for "group approval and acceptance"...
 
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Yeah, if/since you did research into Charles' business, I'd definitely go with your assessment; because I don't remember anything about the origin of the 60 burner phones. IIRC they just appeared in the recitation...
I don't remember the origins of the 60 burner phones being discussed either. The phones were associated with 30 email addresses.

From reading the released Chandler PD documents it is difficult to see where that many phones could have come from. The main motive to use burners would be to cover up the affairs and the murders. After Charles' murder, Lori did not need to hide the affair with Chad any more. Only a small group of people is being investigated for the murders and murder attempts. Their need for burner phones would not amount to 60. In the reports released so far only a handful of phone numbers has been attributed to the main players. There's no indication that JR's group was investigated. Posts on AVOW do not support the theory of their involvement. PAP is barely mentioned. If many more burner phones and people are associated with the case, there has to be another motive. (IMO)
 
I don't remember the origins of the 60 burner phones being discussed either. The phones were associated with 30 email addresses.

From reading the released Chandler PD documents it is difficult to see where that many phones could have come from. The main motive to use burners would be to cover up the affairs and the murders. After Charles' murder, Lori did not need to hide the affair with Chad any more. Only a small group of people is being investigated for the murders and murder attempts. Their need for burner phones would not amount to 60. In the reports released so far only a handful of phone numbers has been attributed to the main players. There's no indication that JR's group was investigated. Posts on AVOW do not support the theory of their involvement. PAP is barely mentioned. If many more burner phones and people are associated with the case, there has to be another motive. (IMO)


" If many more burner phones and people are associated with the case, there has to be another motive."

g, this is what I thought for soooo long.
Some of the complexities, the money spent (when neither C or L really had any sizable income) were just so extreme, that I felt there HAD to be a "bigger picture" here.

I actually hope that the tapes with "girl on fire" (groan) attract more people to come forward to help explain IF PAP or AVOW were bigger than we think.

And after we have been waiting this long for anything to happen in court............ maybe, just maybe we will learn more names or groups to go crazy over!!! ha.
 
" If many more burner phones and people are associated with the case, there has to be another motive."

g, this is what I thought for soooo long.
Some of the complexities, the money spent (when neither C or L really had any sizable income) were just so extreme, that I felt there HAD to be a "bigger picture" here.

I actually hope that the tapes with "girl on fire" (groan) attract more people to come forward to help explain IF PAP or AVOW were bigger than we think.

And after we have been waiting this long for anything to happen in court............ maybe, just maybe we will learn more names or groups to go crazy over!!! ha.
I actually do not believe in a wider conspiracy. IMO the number 60 will be explained in a different way.

PAP and AVOW were/are much bigger than Chad's little circle. Sixty phones would be nothing to them. JR is not a member of either. No sign that's she's being investigated as part of this case.

Let's say that PAP or AVOW were involved. What did they have to hide to operate in secrecy? AVOW previously ostracized members who have been excommunicated by the Church (including JR). They didn't close shop when the case broke. On the other hand PAP folded rather quickly. There might have been sympathizers of Chad ideas among them (and probably some in the AVOW membership). PAP founders/facilitators have not been accused of anything so far. They operate a similar business under a new name.
 
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Belief levels (with my arbitrary designations of cultishness):

dreams and visions - not quite cultish?
multiple probations - cultish
dark/light rating system - very cultish
zombies - extremely cultish

I'd like to know how many people subscribed to the last level and how many were told that it was OK to murder people because they were dark.
 
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