Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

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To continue, so images don't pile up....
This Cabane looks quite well situated if you're descending from the Port de la Glère gosh look at that tragedy-inducing slope above it...Cirque de la Glère

Here's the Google map trail. Cuuute! It's in the woods! A little red riding hood kind of place, so welcoming, the door never closed to visitors. Heck, they've skipped the door altogether! I suppose you'd hang your tarp in the doorway to keep the wolf from the door, so to speak.
The trails seem to be a little off, since you can get from the Hospice to the Port de la Glère via the Chemin de l'Impératrice, but I don't know if I'd want to be taking any kind of shortcut from the Refuge de V unless I had wings.
Google Maps
 

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To continue, so images don't pile up....
This Cabane looks quite well situated if you're descending from the Port de la Glère gosh look at that tragedy-inducing slope above it...Cirque de la Glère

Here's the Google map trail. Cuuute! It's in the woods! A little red riding hood kind of place, so welcoming, the door never closed to visitors. Heck, they've skipped the door altogether! I suppose you'd hang your tarp in the doorway to keep the wolf from the door, so to speak.
The trails seem to be a little off, since you can get from the Hospice to the Port de la Glère via the Chemin de l'Impératrice, but I don't know if I'd want to be taking any kind of shortcut from the Refuge de V unless I had wings.
Google Maps

I'm curious whether that cabin was checked between Nov 25-Dec 2 to see whether there was any evidence that Esther was there, or whether they were somehow convinced that she was heading from Pic de Sauvegarde to France and Refuge de Venasque late in the afternoon on Nov 22.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder why Dan didn't find it odd that she would hike into France so late in the day. We did. Today, it's 50-50 that she did not make that hike, yet he was convinced from the beginning that she would do that.
 
I'm curious whether that cabin was checked between Nov 25-Dec 2 to see whether there was any evidence that Esther was there, or whether they were somehow convinced that she was heading from Pic de Sauvegarde to France and Refuge de Venasque late in the afternoon on Nov 22.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder why Dan didn't find it odd that she would hike into France so late in the day. We did. Today, it's 50-50 that she did not make that hike, yet he was convinced from the beginning that she would do that.
Maybe LE checked the Cabane du C de la G but I doubt DC did. He overnighted at the Refuge de V for 2 nights. I’m thinking snowfall arrived soon thereafter. His GPS searches should indicate whether he went to that Cabane. It’s on a spur trail? He might not have known it even existed? The problem is, if you don’t have a standard paper/tyvek topo map, it’s easy to miss stuff, because a large scale is needed as well as all the fine detail.
 
To continue, so images don't pile up....
This Cabane looks quite well situated if you're descending from the Port de la Glère gosh look at that tragedy-inducing slope above it...Cirque de la Glère

Here's the Google map trail. Cuuute! It's in the woods! A little red riding hood kind of place, so welcoming, the door never closed to visitors. Heck, they've skipped the door altogether! I suppose you'd hang your tarp in the doorway to keep the wolf from the door, so to speak.
The trails seem to be a little off, since you can get from the Hospice to the Port de la Glère via the Chemin de l'Impératrice, but I don't know if I'd want to be taking any kind of shortcut from the Refuge de V unless I had wings.
Google Maps
Hey @otto Is that your shortcut on this graphic going down a gully from Refuge de Venasque to the Cabane du C de la G? If so, this gives a good view of the lay of the land on that trail.

My problem with ED using that shortcut trail at all is that she’d be making a mini loop that avoids the Hospice and Chemin de l’Imp (very unlikely), or skipping the Port de la G (not in the reported plan). And she seemed to have been in the vicinity of the Port de la G, thus the skull find. So, I nix the shortcut.
 
Another option has entered the fray. A similarly monikered Cabane du Cirque de la Glère.
RSBM & BBM
It's in the woods! A little red riding hood kind of place, so welcoming, the door never closed to visitors.
RSBM

@RickshawFan, it is amazing how our collective post mortem discussion here has us revisiting some more obscure data interpretation and extrapolation that appeared in earlier threads. When I first found this cute little cabane, I too thought it might be very enticing to anyone, really. I'd be happy to resurrect some of those old maps if anyone is interested.
 
RSBM & BBM

RSBM

@RickshawFan, it is amazing how our collective post mortem discussion here has us revisiting some more obscure data interpretation and extrapolation that appeared in earlier threads. When I first found this cute little cabane, I too thought it might be very enticing to anyone, really. I'd be happy to resurrect some of those old maps if anyone is interested.
I forgot that you’d found it. For my projected route, it’s exactly where I’d want a Cabane to be…somewhere that ED assumed she could reach going up to and over the P de la Glere, but miscalculated for about 10 reasons.
I wonder if an accident could have happened in that Cabane or nearby? While she was getting wood for the fire? She burned? She encountered someone? She got hypothermia? Someone could have come along and just taken her stuff, thinking it had been abandoned.
 
Hey @otto Is that your shortcut on this graphic going down a gully from Refuge de Venasque to the Cabane du C de la G? If so, this gives a good view of the lay of the land on that trail.

My problem with ED using that shortcut trail at all is that she’d be making a mini loop that avoids the Hospice and Chemin de l’Imp (very unlikely), or skipping the Port de la G (not in the reported plan). And she seemed to have been in the vicinity of the Port de la G, thus the skull find. So, I nix the shortcut.

This is the shortcut. The link is posted upthread in the comment when I first posted this. The route is described as difficult, especially with a heavy pack.

upload_2021-8-3_9-56-32.png
 
My
This is the shortcut. The link is posted upthread in the comment when I first posted this. The route is described as difficult, especially with a heavy pack.

View attachment 307203
The Lac de le Montagne and the shortcut are at substantially higher elevation than I had noticed from the prior maps.

It makes me concerned that she might, indeed, have attempted to get to the tiny Cabane via that route, not realizing it was an elevation difference of what looks like more than 1,000 ft.

I can imagine this would be a disatrous mistake to make in winter.
 
Upthread, I misspoke several times and suggested ED aimed for the Refuge de la Glère.
It looks like this:
I could happily go there tomorrow. Unfortunately, the Refuge de la Glère might as well be a thousand miles from the Port de la Glère. It's pretty much as far as you can see.
No worries. Another option has entered the fray. A similarly monikered Cabane du Cirque de la Glère. Gosh how could Cirque go with du? Cute huh?
It really does have everything you need, though.
Refuges, cabanes et abris des Pyrénées - Cabane du Cirque de la Glere

The first photo, of the 3 storied Cabane Cirque is something like 20 miles away from the area she was hiking it. It shouldn't really factor in as a potential destination on her trip.

Except that the name is afwully similar to the tiny cabin hidden below the Lac de la Montagne
 
This is the shortcut. The link is posted upthread in the comment when I first posted this. The route is described as difficult, especially with a heavy pack.

View attachment 307203
Yes, my post with the graphic mountain ^^^^ shows the shortcut, correct? It should complement this map of yours. It gives an idea how steep that shortcut is and how the Venasque area relates to the Glere area. Zany trail.
 
The first photo, of the 3 storied Cabane Cirque is something like 20 miles away from the area she was hiking it. It shouldn't really factor in as a potential destination on her trip.

Except that the name is afwully similar to the tiny cabin hidden below the Lac de la Montagne
Yes. That is exactly the correction I was making. Ignore the Refugio de la Glère. Focus on the Cabane du Cirque de la Glère, which is right where I'd anticipate ED was headed.
 
Except, this is what she said:

“Still in the same area. Tomorrow heading for Port de le Glere or something spelt like that. Might dip into France. Hoping Refuge Venasque has a winter room" (dossier)​

What I understand from this is:

Nov 22-23 still in the same area
Nov 23 heading for Port de la Glere
Nov 23 might dip into France
Nov 23 hoping Refuge de Venasque has a Winter Room
Nov 24 return to vehicle
Nov 25 drive to France to see Dan
 
Except, this is what she said:

“Still in the same area. Tomorrow heading for Port de le Glere or something spelt like that. Might dip into France. Hoping Refuge Venasque has a winter room" (dossier)​

What I understand from this is:

Nov 22-23 still in the same area
Nov 23 heading for Port de la Glere
Nov 23 might dip into France
Nov 23 hoping Refuge de Venasque has a Winter Room
Nov 24 return to vehicle
Nov 25 drive to France to see Dan
She was planning more than one night out on the route, though? I had her going clockwise. 22nd at the Cabane de Besurtas. 23rd after the descent of la Glère on the France side. On the 24th at the R de Venasque after the Chemin de l'I, and the Hospice.
Return to vehicle and drive t o France to Dan (good question how that would be permissible because of COVID restrictions?) on the 25th.
That was waaaay too much hiking on the 23 and 24, but I'll bet ED thought she could do it. However, there were at least 5 reasons why that amount of hiking won't work with a 3 day schedule, even if you're athletic, and at least 10 why ED specifically was not going to be able to make that happen.
If you went over the P de la G into France, then took the shortcut over to the R de V and then headed home, you'd have to have had 2 nights out in addition to the night she was on the Pic. That shortcut is killer. It goes down into a canyon.
 
Has anyone figured out if "dipping into France" was DC's take on a conversation? Or was it verbatim from an ED text? This makes all the difference in the world. If ED blatantly said she was heading into France (the woman she begged the quinoa from seemed to be of this mind), DC might very well have re-framed it as "dipping" to make ED seem at least not too far on the wrong side of the law?

Judging from LE's search activities, they didn't consider ED to be actually "dipping". They were way down in the Hospice valley and the Chemin de ''I, as far as I can tell.
 
Except, this is what she said:

“Still in the same area. Tomorrow heading for Port de le Glere or something spelt like that. Might dip into France. Hoping Refuge Venasque has a winter room" (dossier)​

What I understand from this is:

Nov 22-23 still in the same area
Nov 23 heading for Port de la Glere
Nov 23 might dip into France
Nov 23 hoping Refuge de Venasque has a Winter Room
Nov 24 return to vehicle
Nov 25 drive to France to see Dan

You are right to point out this again. This has been interpreted as indicating she was planning to spend the night at Refuge de Venasque the same night the message was sent, with a plan to follow the Chemin de L'Impeatrice. DC's dossier indicates she had indicated this was her plan so maybe there was some verbal communication of this plan that has not been revealed.

I agree though that if one reads this message, it would indicate a purposeful plan to head for Port de Glere the next day and the plan to enter France was a possibility. This, to me, would indicate a plan to go to Port de Glere via the Spanish side and to consider an onward "dip" into France.

The problem is that she may have been a bit vague about her plans and I would not necessarily take this exactly as in the message. She may for instance have planned the Chemin de l'Impeatrice and not considered this a proper dip into France as it is so close to the border but was perhaps considering going further to Bagneres de Luchon and maybe was referring to this as a the "dip".

What I take from this is that we have absolutely no idea if she went into France or Spain from Pic de Sauvegarde !
I suspect her remains will be found eventually a km or two from Port de Glere because it is probably more than coincidence that her last message and skull fragment were located a small distance from each other as the crow flies. The shortcut from Sauvegarde to Port de Glere is an interesting theory and she would have been able to see this area from Pic de Sauvegarde.
 
Also I've seen no evidence at all that they were out of funds.
Snipped for focus
I am quite confused about this sentence...
I guess I and many others assumed ED and DC were very much out of funds because they kept bumming food and stuff off strangers? How else could that be interpreted?
 
Except, this is what she said:

“Still in the same area. Tomorrow heading for Port de le Glere or something spelt like that. Might dip into France. Hoping Refuge Venasque has a winter room" (dossier)​

"Dip into France" could refer to Hospice de France rather than the country France. That would fit in with the planned route we've been told about. Hospice de France is about 700 metres off her route down the hill. She may have planned to dip in for lunch when passing.

I think it's unlikely that she came back down the Spanish side of the Salvaguardia. LE said they were able to accurately track her climb up the Spanish side on the day she went missing thanks to the number of witnesses who came forward to report seeing her. The next day would have been a Monday so possibly the trails were quieter but she would have had to walk a long distance in Spain and pass the car park at the trailhead as well as Hospital de Benasque so it seems unlikely that nobody would have seen her and reported it.
 
You are right to point out this again. This has been interpreted as indicating she was planning to spend the night at Refuge de Venasque the same night the message was sent, with a plan to follow the Chemin de L'Impeatrice. DC's dossier indicates she had indicated this was her plan so maybe there was some verbal communication of this plan that has not been revealed.

I agree though that if one reads this message, it would indicate a purposeful plan to head for Port de Glere the next day and the plan to enter France was a possibility. This, to me, would indicate a plan to go to Port de Glere via the Spanish side and to consider an onward "dip" into France.

The problem is that she may have been a bit vague about her plans and I would not necessarily take this exactly as in the message. She may for instance have planned the Chemin de l'Impeatrice and not considered this a proper dip into France as it is so close to the border but was perhaps considering going further to Bagneres de Luchon and maybe was referring to this as a the "dip".

What I take from this is that we have absolutely no idea if she went into France or Spain from Pic de Sauvegarde !
I suspect her remains will be found eventually a km or two from Port de Glere because it is probably more than coincidence that her last message and skull fragment were located a small distance from each other as the crow flies. The shortcut from Sauvegarde to Port de Glere is an interesting theory and she would have been able to see this area from Pic de Sauvegarde.
I'll check if you can see this shortcut trail from the Pic. I think not. And it disappears into the shadow of the valley. She would have had to have a paper topo map to scope out this trail adequately.
 
I'll check if you can see this shortcut trail from the Pic. I think not. And it disappears into the shadow of the valley. She would have had to have a paper topo map to scope out this trail adequately.
Could she have mistaken the entrance to the shortcut for the entrnace to the Port de la Glere trail?
 
Do we know if Esther had her big pack with her the day before when she ascended Sauveguarde? I'm just wondering about the practicality of it and if having it on the Sunday was a sign that she was not returning to where she had stayed the night before.
 
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