Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

[searancke]

I have just realised my diagram also works if you look at her being found between the Pic and the Porte vertically (not horizontally) so maybe what they meant was this
(Red cross is the skull (2200m, on the path), yellow line is 400m below pic (2050m), green circle is approx "100m from skull", and white lines indicate the Pic and the Porte)

So she was found between the Pic and the Porte, 400m below the Pic, 100m from the skull, puts her at near where the green circle and yellow line (don't quite) intersectView attachment 308545

Apologies for quoting myself but I went back and checked the original quote (which was in French) and it does say "below" the Pic and "above" the porte, but is quoting a "family member" and I haven't seen any other mention of this in other sources, so I'm wondering if it was a language issue and was between, anyhow only time will tell when more is released

 

[Hope4More]

Lots of this speculation will be cleared up when we get decent reporting - e.g. whether it looked like she had set up a camp, or whether she was injured, and thus accessed her gear, or whether things simply got scattered around a bit by elements and animals.

But what we are hearing is accident, so my guess is it's pretty clear she had a fall.

Agree on all counts. It's auspicious for figuring out how she died that her remains, camping equipment, and her phone were found, and that the scene of her death wasn't altered beyond what occurs there naturally.

Until conclusions are reached based on the evidence, I'm sticking with a fall being most likely. I get that she seems to have been in the process of making big & difficult decisions about what came next, but imo that's just called being a thoughtful, introspective adult. In the weeks before her death she was out adventuring, meeting new people, and inviting/ being invited to share time in the mountains, which she did. Multiple times. Personally I don't see anything in that behavior that is remotely consistent with suicide.

As for why it is she may have ventured where her BF and others thought it unlike her, or even an act of recklessness. To some that seems to suggest or be evidence she was suicidal. Ultimately, who knows with any certainty what is in the mind of anyone else, even those we know best, much less someone we are all just reading about in the newspapers?

So to be sure, it's just speculation, but another take, one based on my interpretation of what's known & my own way of looking at things, is she may have ventured off the designated path both literally & figuratively as an act of self-confidence. Of after taking 30 days by herself to wrestle with where she was in life & what she wanted, perhaps having made those decisions. Perhaps feeling really good about herself for having made them, confident she was making the right decisions, and lighter, more adventurous, more herself for having made them.

 

[searancke]

all very confusing, but she was walking up to the col. i'm trusting the initial report of 2200m for now. as a mountain walker, that outcrop would be very appealling, possibly for a bivvy.
re tent -no need if staying at refuge..

She could easily have been walking either way....up or down. maybe we will never know this (unless the phone gives clues, but I'm guessing it was turned completely off or else it would have "pinged" at some point).

 

[otto]

Apologies for quoting myself but I went back and checked the original quote (which was in French) and it does say "below" the Pic and "above" the porte, but is quoting a "family member" and I haven't seen any other mention of this in other sources, so I'm wondering if it was a language issue and was between, anyhow only time will tell when more is released

I assumed higher elevation than the port, but below the pic - horizontally, somewhere between the two dashed lines

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Totally agree @Hope4More. A tragic accident seems most likely, can’t rule out suicide, foul play is unlikely. Time will tell, but whichever it was it’s comforting to know that Esther died doing something she loved in a place that she found beautiful and peaceful.

 

[Hope4More]

Totally agree @Hope4More. A tragic accident seems most likely, can’t rule out suicide, foul play is unlikely. Time will tell, but whichever it was it’s comforting to know that Esther died doing something she loved in a place that she found beautiful and peaceful.

Amen. (Especially having feared scenarios of foul play for many months).

 

[Palemaiden]

Regarding your last paragraph, I was just typing out that very thought process myself, almost word for word.

 

[DFR3217]

She could have been looking for shelter or trying to get away from something.


Interesting video. Sadly she doesn't get much of a chance to talk! When she does she looks to him constantly, maybe in case he'll be annoyed with her interjecting.

To me the video looks as if they are echoing each other, which shows a high level of communication between them. It was probably just agreed that Dan would do most of the talking.

 

[RickshawFan]

Now the Daily Mail are quoting "Captain Bordinaro said the distance between where the body and skull were found was '100 metres as the crow flies'. Her remains were discovered by her boyfriend Mr Colegate 400 metres below the Pic de la Glere on August 9 - approximately 100 metres from where a fragment of her skull was found 18 days earlier on July 23. "

The Porte looks to be at 2375m and the pic 2450m - from here Col de la Glère

The remains fell UP? 400m below the Pic would be lower than where the skull piece was found at 2200m.

 

[OEJ-JEO]

The place I marked X on the lower shoulder of the pic earlier today is actually 100m as the crow (or vulture) flies from the path on the scree below, so there can hardly be any other possibility than that she fell from somewhere close to that spot. I can't imagine the authorities will pin-point the spot on the map for us, so that may be closest we can get.

Just playing around on Google Earth again, I tried approaching that spot on the ridge to see what the view is like - not too impressive as I suspected, but with every inch further towards the very edge, the view of the cirque opens out below and is much more impressive. I can easily imagine her leaning out to get the best shot, then slipping on a loose rock or losing balance in a sudden gust of wind. The crags below are in deep shadow on Google so it's difficult to gauge how far she might have fallen, but from other pictures it looks pretty sheer.

This all seems very plausible to me. I'll add that I think the only reason to approach that edge would be for the view back down the route she'd already climbed, suggesting that she'd followed the itinerary described in the dossier, climbing the screes from the French side.

Here's yet another view of that slope, this time from Streetview: Google Maps

 

[arrogantcat]

I’ve spent the last few days reading over past threads, as I’ve been following this case from the start but didn’t think to check for a WS thread until now.

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, or indeed is in poor taste, but I wondered if anyone had raised the possibility that ED had an eating disorder?

I ask, I suppose, because it often ‘takes one to know one’, and a few elements of this story raise red flags for me.
She was clearly a fan of extreme exercise. She pushed her body hard. That alone isn’t a disorder, of course, but it’s unusual. She seemed to be quite determined to push her body to its physical limits at times - almost punishingly.

Coupled with her statements about the dogs encouraging her to “take proper care of herself” when out, and having to ask some other hikers for some fruit as she had underpaxked (why specifically fruit? Would any food have done?)… it’s hard to explain to someone who hasn’t lived with disordered eating, perhaps, how these things ring some very specific alarm bells.

And before anyone says it - you don’t have to be underweight or anorexic-looking to be living with an eating disorder. Many people are in fact overweight, or maintain a healthy weight, as they go through binge and restriction cycles. You cannot tell whether someone has an ED from their physical appearance alone. It’s simply a coping mechanism, a means of feeling in control, and often sufferers turn to these behaviours more seriously when going through difficult times emotionally or with their general mental health.

All of this is none of our business, of course, except lack of food and pushing a body too hard could easily explain disorientation, coordination issues, fatigue, mistakes, etc. I wondered about an eating disorder from very early on, and this week’s tragic discovery as finally made me brave enough to mention it.

 

[otto]

I've added the elevation of the Port and the Pic for those who, like me, can't read tiny font.

This is based on:

• skull was found near trail at 2200 meters
• body was found at an elevation above Port, beneath Pic
• body was 100 meters from skull

Body could be anywhere within dashed lines

 

[OEJ-JEO]

I have just realised my diagram also works if you look at her being found between the Pic and the Porte vertically (not horizontally) so maybe what they meant was this
(Red cross is the skull (2200m, on the path), yellow line is 400m below pic (2050m), green circle is approx "100m from skull", and white lines indicate the Pic and the Porte)

So she was found between the Pic and the Porte, 400m below the Pic, 100m from the skull, puts her at near where the green circle and yellow line (don't quite) intersectView attachment 308545

The fact that doesn't fit is M. Bordinaro's statement that the distance between the skull fragment and the rest of Esther's remains was only 100m as the crow flies, but more like 600m on the ground. Even allowing considerable margin for inaccuracy, I think that must involve climbing back up from the location of her body to some point on the Pic de la Glère, passing through the Port de la Glère from the Spanish side, then descending to the 2200m level where the skull fragment was found. That would place the body much higher on the slope.

 

[RedHaus]

She looks very vacant in that video,.. perhaps exhausted?

BBM

I agree @The_Investigator. I have watched that video several times, studying the verbal and non-verbal behavior of both DC and ED. What I see from ED is a faraway look - a 10,000-foot stare - and a meek response to the story telling. Is that look exhaustion? Is it depression? Is it fear? Is it malnutrition?

We'll never know. But I always found that video very haunting. Thanks for bring it to the forefront again, @CoverMeCagney.

 

[RickshawFan]

One point against suicide for me is that Esther would know that she would be endangering many, many people. She would have known that a huge SAR expedition would be launched. I just can’t wrap my mind around that.

IMO there was likely a HUGE disconnect between hearing how SAR works and what the risks are—even vocally appreciating the danger—and applying it to yourself.
IMO something like that had to be taking place, because ED was otherwise taking an unfathomable array of risks, what with going solo, going during lockdown, going with little if any food (viz. requests for fruit or taking food offered by another backpacker, because she didn't have what the situation demanded), going on the verge of winter, going during freezing nights, going when she didn't want to spend time hanging about in huts, taking summer gear, going up a Pic (e.g. PicdeS) so late in the day.....
Several times, I've flat-out refused to continue on a trip because there was a significant chance I or someone I was with would need a rescue and put SAR at risk. You really have to take in that someone could die getting to you, become permanently disabled or disfigured, and you have to be willing to act on that knowledge. It pains me to this day that I had to forego those trips, but them's the breaks.

 

[searancke]

The Daily Fail story has now been amended (but still doesn't make any sense!)

Captain Jean Marc Bordinaro said Dan Colegate concentrated on the rocky terrain near where part of her skull had been found last month, locating her body about 437 yards (400m) from the remote peak of Pic de la Glere which straddles the French Spanish border in the Pyrenees.

Her skull was found 656 yards (600m) away further south down a twisting path that experienced hikers have described as 'treacherous'.

So this is now saying the body was at 2050m and the skull below that (600m!!) which I don't believe as it doesn't fit at all with the initial 2200m finding of the skull.

Esther Dingley's boyfriend 'paced up and down for DAYS' retracing her steps until he found her body | Daily Mail Online

Does anyone have a better source?

 

[otto]

The fact that doesn't fit is M. Bordarino's statement that the distance between the skull fragment and the rest of Esther's remains was only 100m as the crow flies, but more like 600m on the ground. I think that must involve climbing back up from the location of her body to some point on the Pic de la Glère, passing through the Port de la Glère from the Spanish side, then descending to the 2200m level where the skull fragment was found. That would place the body much higher on the slope.

I missed the explanation of 100 meters straight line means 600 meters elevation. I don't quite understand.

 

[RedHaus]

I've added the elevation of the Port and the Pic for those who, like me, can't read tiny font.

This is based on:

• skull was found near trail at 2200 meters
• body was found at an elevation above Port, beneath Pic
• body was 100 meters from skull

Body could be anywhere within dashed lines

View attachment 308552

Bravo, @otto, well done... I can agree to this image of what we know so far...

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I missed the explanation of 100 meters straight line means 600 meters elevation. I don't quite understand.

I think it means 100 metres as the crow flies, but 600 if walking it.

 

[RickshawFan]

She looks very vacant in that video,.. perhaps exhausted?

To me, she often looks like that: she seems just gone.