Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, Nov 2020 #7

[Grouse]

Yes that is odd, but then again I can't imagine DC thinking she would venture up on to the ridge, it looks way beyond her (and frankly most peoples) capabilities. And if you discount that and don't find her on the trail....you go elsewhere.

From looking at at this video --> Login • Instagram I would say that she does look maybe a tad hesitant and cautious on here to me on a stretch that looks way less difficult than some of the pics posted above of the ridge at the edge of Pic de la Glere by the Port, on the Spanish side. I think I may have changed my view about her scrambling up part of that peak for a last peak bag.

 

[Hatty]

Could be but why mention a room at Refuge Venasque if she didn't intend going that way?


I think her phone just wasn't on just to save what little power it had left after the 22nd November communications. Last charge was probably in the motorhome the night of the 20th; her next stop, the Cabane de la Besurtas, had no facility for this, nor had the Refuge Venasque winter room. I think she'd have intended to send a message later on at a significant point -like the Port de la Glere or beyond.

IIRC the dossier stated she had plenty of back up to recharge her phone so I doubt this would have been an issue.

 

[Grouse]

IIRC the dossier stated she had plenty of back up to recharge her phone so I doubt this would have been an issue.

She did. I posted earlier, on a 4-5 day trip if planning on taking loads of pics and uploading to Instagram etc every day she might still need to be careful to conserve her phone battery and power-bank charger a bit on day 2 , but yes she was well prepared on that front.

 

[RedHaus]

If and when a formal autopsy report for ED is released, this NIH article might be useful background as it helps differentiate human bone fractures that occur before death, at the time of death, and after death. Why is this important? Because I still wonder if where ED was found with her kit strewn about was not where she died.

Postmortem Change and its Effect on Evaluation of Fractures

Whether it was ice and snow melt, her decomposition, scavenging animals (including vultures), strong winds, or just gravity, perhaps ED died on that ledge where she is presumed to have fallen from and then fell post mortem to where she was found, with a piece of her skull rolling further down the scree field below port dl g.

p.s. I too believe ED got to that ridge from the Spain side, and then "dipped into France" to a ledge. And from media reports, her mat was out of her backpack, among other items. I believe suicide, sadly, may be the best explanation at hand for why on earth ED would deviate from a trail, scramble up a rock face, and have her mat out.

 

[Hope4More]

From looking at at this video --> Login • Instagram I would say that she does look maybe a tad hesitant and cautious on here to me on a stretch that looks way less difficult than some of the pics posted above of the ridge at the edge of Pic de la Glere by the Port, on the Spanish side. I think I may have changed my view about her scrambling up part of that peak for a last peak bag.

I have an opposite reaction. She seemed confident to me, not hesitant at all. And the fact she could & did scramble up rocks without pausing, and didn't just stick to well travelled paths, IMO supports the likelihood she didn't consider the adventuring she was doing that day especially remarkable, much less reckless.

 

[Hope4More]

If and when a formal autopsy report for ED is released, this NIH article might be useful background as it helps differentiate human bone fractures that occur before death, at the time of death, and after death. Why is this important? Because I still wonder if where ED was found with her kit strewn about was not where she died.

Postmortem Change and its Effect on Evaluation of Fractures

Whether it was ice and snow melt, her decomposition, scavenging animals (including vultures), strong winds, or just gravity, perhaps ED died on that ledge where she is presumed to have fallen from and then fell post mortem to where she was found, with a piece of her skull rolling further down the scree field below port dl g.

p.s. I too believe ED got to that ridge from the Spain side, and then "dipped into France" to a ledge. And from media reports, her mat was out of her backpack, among other items. I believe suicide, sadly, may be the best explanation at hand for why on earth ED would deviate from a trail, scramble up a rock face, and have her mat out.

Why on earth? Because leaving a walking trail & scrambling up & over & around & through rocks is fun. It's not clear she did have her mat out, as opposed to it being bounced out or off her backpack as she fell. But if she did have it out, what it suggests is she climbed up or over to the ledge, and pulled it out intending to reward herself to a comfortable sit down as she looked around or took pictures. Those moments are a big part of what getting to the top is all about. (She may even have fallen with it in her hands, if she lost balance as she bent to lay it down).

 

[RedHaus]

Why on earth? Because leaving a walking trail & scrambling up & over & around & through rocks is fun. It's not clear she did have her mat out, as opposed to it being bounced out or off her backpack as she fell. But if she did have it out, what it suggests is she climbed up or over to the ledge, and pulled it out intending to reward herself to a comfortable sit down as she looked around or took pictures. Those moments are a big part of what getting to the top is all about. (She may even have fallen with it in her hands, if she lost balance as she bent to lay it down).

Yes, @Hope4More. We all have our own filters, don't we. I simply see and interpret the facts much differently than you do.

 

[tennyson77]

From looking at at this video --> Login • Instagram I would say that she does look maybe a tad hesitant and cautious on here to me on a stretch that looks way less difficult than some of the pics posted above of the ridge at the edge of Pic de la Glere by the Port, on the Spanish side. I think I may have changed my view about her scrambling up part of that peak for a last peak bag.

I'm a bit surprised she would climb up a via ferrata while holding her sticks like that. I personally wouldn't do that, and I'd likely have put my hiking sticks away before doing a section like that where one of your hands is now tied up. That's another reason it helps to hike with someone - I usually just fold up my sticks and ask my friend to secure them to the strap on the outside of my pack for sections like that, which saves me from having to take off my bag.

Possibly something else that may have contributed to a fall is her hanging onto her sticks all the time like that. If she was reaching for her phone or something with one hand and holding her sticks with another hand, it doesn't give you much hope of grabbing anything to stop a fall.

 

[Seni]

From looking at at this video --> Login • Instagram I would say that she does look maybe a tad hesitant and cautious on here to me on a stretch that looks way less difficult than some of the pics posted above of the ridge at the edge of Pic de la Glere by the Port, on the Spanish side. I think I may have changed my view about her scrambling up part of that peak for a last peak bag.

Agree Grouse, looks uncomfortable and awkward to me. Plus, she is braver than me doing this in shorts, pretty sure I would at least graze a knee at some stage.

As regards the state of shoes, IME it is not only the sole that can get slippery after a lot of wear, but also the inside of the shoes can wear down and your feet slide around inside the shoe.

Many thanks to EOJ-JOE for the photos!

 

[Seni]

I'm a bit surprised she would climb up a via ferrata while holding her sticks like that. I personally wouldn't do that, and I'd likely have put my hiking sticks away before doing a section like that where one of your hands is now tied up. That's another reason it helps to hike with someone - I usually just fold up my sticks and ask my friend to secure them to the strap on the outside of my pack for sections like that, which saves me from having to take off my bag.

Possibly something else that may have contributed to a fall is her hanging onto her sticks all the time like that. If she was reaching for her phone or something with one hand and holding her sticks with another hand, it doesn't give you much hope of grabbing anything to stop a fall.

Absolutely agree. You always need a free hand wherever you are, but especially in such conditions.

It even freaks me out when people walk down or up stairs with hands in pockets. If they stumble, their face will take the impact.

 

[nazvilusa]

The fact she had a mat with her, for me, implies she was a spiritual person who may have wanted to honor her last trip alone on her month long sojurn...before meeting up with her partner. It seems she may have used this 30 day alone trip to assist with coming to terms with "x". I would never assume anything about her state of mind. Only her partner would know in his heart the likely train of thoughts in her mind at that moment in time.

 

[Seni]

@Rickshaw? Missing you¡

 

[Hope4More]

Yes, @Hope4More. We all have our own filters, don't we. I simply see and interpret the facts much differently than you do.

Not sure what you mean by filters. You wrote you couldn't imagine why she would go off a path, climb up to a ledge & sit on a mat unless she was suicidal. An alternative reason is that she went off the path, climbed to a ledge and did or did not sit on a mat because she was embracing life, not seeking to end it.

After her body was found and it was known she wasn't murdered, what made the most sense to me, given what was known, was that she fell by accident.

Since then, the new known is that those who knew her best & loved her most believe it was an accident, as do the investigators who found her and who saw & analyzed all the evidence, as do those who did her autopsy.

Whatever the term for it, yep, I don't have any doubt about how she died. I remain interested in puzzling out where exactly she hiked up to, as much as anything because so many here have put so much interesting work into trying to figure it out.

 

[Seni]

I have an opposite reaction. She seemed confident to me, not hesitant at all. And the fact she could & did scramble up rocks without pausing, and didn't just stick to well travelled paths, IMO supports the likelihood she didn't consider the adventuring she was doing that day especially remarkable, much less reckless.

Hi and welcome to the thread!

I think you should consider the amount of research and detail, maps especially, how posters have deliberated about which route was taken, how prepared Esther was or not?

So how do you see it?

 

[mrjitty]

I have an opposite reaction. She seemed confident to me, not hesitant at all. And the fact she could & did scramble up rocks without pausing, and didn't just stick to well travelled paths, IMO supports the likelihood she didn't consider the adventuring she was doing that day especially remarkable, much less reckless.

Agreed - and it's hardly a challenging climb there.

 

[pineapple23]

Only her partner would know in his heart the likely train of thoughts in her mind at that moment in time.

Sometimes our partners are the last to know. In this case in particular, I'm not convinced they were 'on the same page'.

 

[Grouse]

I have an opposite reaction. She seemed confident to me, not hesitant at all. And the fact she could & did scramble up rocks without pausing, and didn't just stick to well travelled paths, IMO supports the likelihood she didn't consider the adventuring she was doing that day especially remarkable, much less reckless.

I think you misunderstood my post, or maybe I didn't make it clear. I'm not implying reckless at all, the opposite in fact. That's why I said I may have changed my view about her scrambling up part of that peak - i.e. I don't think she would have, even from the Spanish side, after seeing some of the pictures up thread of it, and then watching her on that via ferrata. MOO. There may be another explanation, such as falling from the trail on the ascent to the Port.

 

[OEJ-JEO]

Not just incompetence, but IMO deliberate deception. No reason for the Sun to actually pay an employee to fly to Spain. Probably paid an expat in Spain to get a clip of him hiking, with his Spanish friend, and the whole rest of it invented by an editor in about 15 minutes before turning to the next story.

The purpose of tabloids is to make readers believe they know the real story, rather than actually knowing the real story.

For the same reason I'd be cautious of any news interptetation of where she was found, and where she fell from. I'm not convinced that info has been officially released, but dodgy media sources may well have jumped to conclusions about her being on top of the pic de la glere.

It was a very disappointing effort ... and I wasn't hoping for much.

But, to be fair, Nick Parker is a staff writer at The Sun (chief foreign correspondent, no less!), and his guide, Philippe Petriccione, is a self-employed mountain guide from Luchon. They presumably came up from there. You can make out a view up from the cirque, then down the screes from a point near the Port to the debris field at the bottom of the slope, then across the scree slope nearer the bottom.

But what a waste of time!

 

[OEJ-JEO]

There may be another explanation, such as falling from the trail on the ascent to the Port.

I can't see any location on the trail that would fit the facts as we know them. The body was found above the Port de la Glère but below the summit. She fell 20-30m down a rock face, to a point in France, in a crevice, beneath a rocky pinnacle, where her body was hidden from the trail and from the air. There are only a couple of points I can see that seem to fit all those criteria.

 

[RedHaus]

@Rickshaw? Missing you¡

Bumping with corrected name...

@RickshawFan.