UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #15

[Novosti]

If the phone remained in the Heworth area till 1000 it points very heavily away from the street abduction theory. To sustain the abduction theory, you would have to explain both why she didn't take the phone with her, and how the phone later disappeared from her house.

If the Galloway investigation was in possession of this 'fact' the subsequent course of the investigation becomes almost unfathomable. More likely, it is either not a fact, or they were not in possession of this information until later (which raises different questions).

With respect and hindsight to a very accomplished detective. Any job through the eyes of a professional he will of checked the most likely first given the importance of finding her quickly - the first 48hrs. It’s a 50/50 - she may have left the house to elsewhere of her own free will - she may of forgotten to take her phone, tired busy? Have you ever left your phone at home? I have. Looking at the evidence it points away from her home towards work. However A.C. In my opinion was outside at 6.55am why? A curry a heavy night - sleeps on the sofa - allegedly - back to Heworth early in the morning on foot?

 

[Thelastleg]

Well I’ve walked the route and it’s a good 15-20mins walk from her home to the left handed smoker - to the arguing door flung open couple - it would prob take me 45 - 50mins to get there - it’s not close - but it’s closer than Harrogate . I’d say when you are referring to close to her home you are indicating Heworth. It’s an assumption (just my opinion). From my point of view it further complicates matters. Because if she was staying close to home - why the need for chef whites and rucksack, hair straighteners?

I can understand that they knew the rucksack was missing but not sure how they know about the Chefs whites. I have a work uniform. I got issued with 3 of each item when I started. Now after 8 years, I have a wardrobe of items. We can request items free of charge after 2 years. Sometimes I take them but don't really need them, other older ones have got thrown out. If someone came to do an inventory of my uniform they would have no idea if anything was missing. Were the chefs whites embroidered with the name of the University? Did they know how many sets that she should have? Did she have a collection, tunics, jackets, short/long sleeved. I would assume that she would use a clean tunic everyday. Was the tunic from the 18th in the wash basket? I have so many questions. I have forgotten my phone on many occasions, and have done so on important trips when I should have made sure I had it with me. If I was nipping out for a few minutes to a friend's house, for example to lend her my hair straighteners, I would doubt my phone would be a priority. Other things that I would like to know are, would Claudia have made her bed everyday before work? Did Claudia regularly leave dishes in the sink to wash? Maybe JK would know as she lived with her for a while. I get the impression that Claudia's was a neat and tidy person. Why would she not have cleared away the used hair dye bottles in the bathroom?

 

[Popejohn3]

I can understand that they knew the rucksack was missing but not sure how they know about the Chefs whites. I have a work uniform. I got issued with 3 of each item when I started. Now after 8 years, I have a wardrobe of items. We can request items free of charge after 2 years. Sometimes I take them but don't really need them, other older ones have got thrown out. If someone came to do an inventory of my uniform they would have no idea if anything was missing. Were the chefs whites embroidered with the name of the University? Did they know how many sets that she should have? Did she have a collection, tunics, jackets, short/long sleeved. I would assume that she would use a clean tunic everyday. Was the tunic from the 18th in the wash basket? I have so many questions. I have forgotten my phone on many occasions, and have done so on important trips when I should have made sure I had it with me. If I was nipping out for a few minutes to a friend's house, for example to lend her my hair straighteners, I would doubt my phone would be a priority. Other things that I would like to know are, would Claudia have made her bed everyday before work? Did Claudia regularly leave dishes in the sink to wash? Maybe JK would know as she lived with her for a while. I get the impression that Claudia's was a neat and tidy person. Why would she not have cleared away the used hair dye bottles in the bathroom?

Re hair dye bottles I understand they were not found on the toilet seat .

 

[Novosti]

The chef's whites thing is interesting. It does seem likely that a regular chef would have more than one set. So it implies the investigation either got this wrong, or acquired a very detailed knowledge of her wardrobe - one assumes from family or friends.

The dishes, hair dyes, bed etc. are I think difficult to draw strong conclusions from, either way. Even very tidy people will occasionally leave things in odd places. The phone is different, and a much stronger potential piece of evidence, because even if it were accidentall left at home (unlikely but plausible), it subsequently disappeared and then was deliberately turned off - a deeply suspicious pattern.

I can understand that they knew the rucksack was missing but not sure how they know about the Chefs whites. I have a work uniform. I got issued with 3 of each item when I started. Now after 8 years, I have a wardrobe of items. We can request items free of charge after 2 years. Sometimes I take them but don't really need them, other older ones have got thrown out. If someone came to do an inventory of my uniform they would have no idea if anything was missing. Were the chefs whites embroidered with the name of the University? Did they know how many sets that she should have? Did she have a collection, tunics, jackets, short/long sleeved. I would assume that she would use a clean tunic everyday. Was the tunic from the 18th in the wash basket? I have so many questions. I have forgotten my phone on many occasions, and have done so on important trips when I should have made sure I had it with me. If I was nipping out for a few minutes to a friend's house, for example to lend her my hair straighteners, I would doubt my phone would be a priority. Other things that I would like to know are, would Claudia have made her bed everyday before work? Did Claudia regularly leave dishes in the sink to wash? Maybe JK would know as she lived with her for a while. I get the impression that Claudia's was a neat and tidy person. Why would she not have cleared away the used hair dye bottles in the bathroom?

 

[Thelastleg]

Re hair dye bottles I understand they were not found on the toilet seat .

The way they had been arranged on the toilet seat was for photographic purposes. However, as a hair dyer myself, I would not leave opened bottles of peroxide sitting about. Hair colour when mixed with peroxide goes inert after 30 mins so there is no point keeping it. I bin mine right away so that it doesn't come into contact with the likes of the wash hand basin and stain it. Same with towels, it doesn't come out of towels. Speaking from experience.

 

[Blonderabbit]

The d

The way they had been arranged on the toilet seat was for photographic purposes. However, as a hair dyer myself, I would not leave opened bottles of peroxide sitting about. Hair colour when mixed with peroxide goes inert after 30 mins so there is no point keeping it. I bin mine right away so that it doesn't come into contact with the likes of the wash hand basin and stain it. Same with towels, it doesn't come out of towels. Speaking from experience.

The dishes in the sink can be reasoned - let’s say she left her house of her own free will - there’s dishes left in the sink - so therefore she doesn’t wash her dishes every meal time. Let’s say she was abducted - there’s more than 1 days washing up in the sink - meaning it’s unlikely she wages her dishes every day. My opinion is the glasses and the her dye were from Tuesday the 17th. I’d think she got ready to go out after work, had visitors at her house male and at least 1 female - then either off to the nags or a taxi to town. I wish there was more info about Tuesday - there is nothing apart from oxers tale a late night with a new boyfriend - a year down the line

 

[Blonderabbit]

I used to work in catering many moons ago and I didn’t have my own set of whites, they stayed at work and was cleaned in house - I’m surprised the college didn’t launder Claudias whites - I mean she wasn’t self employed - so I’d of thought it would be the responsibility of the employer?

 

[curiosity2]

I used to work in catering many moons ago and I didn’t have my own set of whites, they stayed at work and was cleaned in house - I’m surprised the college didn’t launder Claudias whites - I mean she wasn’t self employed - so I’d of thought it would be the responsibility of the employer?

My son also used to work in catering as an employee and it was the responsibility of all kitchen staff to launder their own whites.

 

[Novosti]

It is curious how certain the police message was about the chef's whites being missing. Realistically it can only be because family or friends told them how many sets she owned. And the number found in the house was less than that.

The simplest scenario is that the police were told she only had one set, and none were found in the house. But only having one set is a bit strange for a full time chef. If she had, say, four sets and three were found, the logic is obviously fine, but this implies an oddly exact knowledge that friends or family had about her wardrobe inventory.

Another possibility is that she owned three of four sets, but none were found. Suggests CL intended to take them all to work for some bizarre reason. But it might also be more suggestive of foul play (someone wanted to make sure no whites were found).

All possibilities are strange - for different reasons!

My son also used to work in catering as an employee and it was the responsibility of all kitchen staff to launder their own whites.

 

[Blonderabbit]

It is curious how certain the police message was about the chef's whites being missing. Realistically it can only be because family or friends told them how many sets she owned. And the number found in the house was less than that.

The simplest scenario is that the police were told she only had one set, and none were found in the house. But only having one set is a bit strange for a full time chef. If she had, say, four sets and three were found, the logic is obviously fine, but this implies an oddly exact knowledge that friends or family had about her wardrobe inventory.

Another possibility is that she owned three of four sets, but none were found. Suggests CL intended to take them all to work for some bizarre reason. But it might also be more suggestive of foul play (someone wanted to make sure no whites were found).

All possibilities are strange - for different reasons!

It’s a possibility that she may of been seen on college cctv taking off get whites and putting them in her rucksack. I have tried to picture her at her house - goes through her front door - turns off alarm puts rucksack on back of door or on the floor - changes to slippers -she is reported to have virtually gone straight back out again but why and where to?

 

[curiosity2]

It’s a possibility that she may of been seen on college cctv taking off get whites and putting them in her rucksack. I have tried to picture her at her house - goes through her front door - turns off alarm puts rucksack on back of door or on the floor - changes to slippers -she is reported to have virtually gone straight back out again but why and where to?

I'm sure I read a while ago that she didn't usually bother setting the alarm

 

[Blonderabbit]

I'm sure I read a while ago that she didn't usually bother setting the alarm

Wether she did or didn’t - to an extent it’s immaterial -though would you chance your luck breaking in knowing it might go off? Guess if you knew a locksmith that maybe handy though

 

[Blonderabbit]

A scenario I considered a long time ago is - someone slept over at claudias, he perhaps lived close - to the north of Heworth within a mike or so walk from Claudias home - my theory is he came from the nags - knocked on Claudias door no answer so went round the back - she’s in back round the front and was let in - unexpected. Her calls to her parents he was perhaps sat there all along - an early night - so didn’t answer text from cycprus - in the morning running late he goes for car to give her a lift -there’s some dispute in the car - door flung open - runs off, dropped rucksack, dead before she hits the ground - back in the car - picks up rucksack - has to go back to clean the house up - realising after spending the night he’s going to be the number 1 suspect. Has to involve others because of the alarm. The curry, sleeping on the sofa . In my opinion it explains most of the evidence.

 

[Novosti]

On this scenario, how would death occur? By falling out of a car?

A scenario I considered a long time ago is - someone slept over at claudias, he perhaps lived close - to the north of Heworth within a mike or so walk from Claudias home - my theory is he came from the nags - knocked on Claudias door no answer so went round the back - she’s in back round the front and was let in - unexpected. Her calls to her parents he was perhaps sat there all along - an early night - so didn’t answer text from cycprus - in the morning running late he goes for car to give her a lift -there’s some dispute in the car - door flung open - runs off, dropped rucksack, dead before she hits the ground - back in the car - picks up rucksack - has to go back to clean the house up - realising after spending the night he’s going to be the number 1 suspect. Has to involve others because of the alarm. The curry, sleeping on the sofa . In my opinion it explains most of the evidence.

 

[Blonderabbit]

On this scenario, how would death occur? By falling out of a car?

May of punched her, may of strangled her - heat of the moment act. In my opinion there’s lots of choices - it’s hard to rule anything out. 18th or 19th? - on the way to work or at home? A planned attack or a one on one heat of the moment? - if it was a one on one and then he had help - why would people help him cover a murder of their friend? - which then drives you back to thoughts of a planned attack - which won’t of happened on the way to work.

 

[Novosti]

A random act of anger seems (very) unlikely. As you say, the effort to dispose of evidence almost certainly required teamwork, and that would be very unlikely to be forthcoming following a random act of aggression. Moreover, angry violence tends to leave obvious forensic and other evidence - blood splatters, screams, injuries to the assailant etc. The easiest situation to clean up would be in a car, with the car later disposed of. But even that likely requires teamwork, and possibly corruption. Even the most docile scrap metal merchant is going to ask questions about why a client wants urgently to scrap an otherwise viable and valuable vehicle; and there is a DVLA scrap certification process that would be needed (or have a strategy for avoiding...)

Organised criminals and Ulster paramilitaries find ways to make bodies and cars disappear. But only in the context of reasonably well-organised gangs. And even they often make mistakes.

As you say, on balance it points to planning. And surprisingly effective planning, maybe with a degree of beginners luck thrown in.

May of punched her, may of strangled her - heat of the moment act. In my opinion there’s lots of choices - it’s hard to rule anything out. 18th or 19th? - on the way to work or at home? A planned attack or a one on one heat of the moment? - if it was a one on one and then he had help - why would people help him cover a murder of their friend? - which then drives you back to thoughts of a planned attack - which won’t of happened on the way to work.

 

[Blonderabbit]

A random act of anger seems (very) unlikely. As you say, the effort to dispose of evidence almost certainly required teamwork, and that would be very unlikely to be forthcoming following a random act of aggression. Moreover, angry violence tends to leave obvious forensic and other evidence - blood splatters, screams, injuries to the assailant etc. The easiest situation to clean up would be in a car, with the car later disposed of. But even that likely requires teamwork, and possibly corruption. Even the most docile scrap metal merchant is going to ask questions about why a client wants urgently to scrap an otherwise viable and valuable vehicle; and there is a DVLA scrap certification process that would be needed (or have a strategy for avoiding...)

Organised criminals and Ulster paramilitaries find ways to make bodies and cars disappear. But only in the context of reasonably well-organised gangs. And even they often make mistakes.

As you say, on balance it points to planning. And surprisingly effective planning, maybe with a degree of beginners luck thrown in.

I thinks it’s more likely a random
Act of anger - it could of been pre planned in the perps mind -

The most common homicide method, accounting for about 35% of cases in England and Wales over the last 40 years, has been use of a sharp instrument, usually a knife. The proportion of sharp-instrument homicides tends to rise in line with overall homicide and has been particularly important in driving the rise from years ending March 2015 to 2018 when 45% of homicides were sharp-instrument cases.15 For the early 2000s peak, shootings were also an important driver

 

[Novosti]

Sure. But the police tend to solve knife homicides at a pretty high rate - it creates (literally...) buckets of evidence. They generally only run into trouble with gang-related silence from witnesses, and situations where key evidence is destroyed by gangs in e.g. burnt out cars.

A non-gang perpetrator carrying out a fatal stabbing in unplanned anger has poor chances of escaping conviction.

I thinks it’s more likely a random
Act of anger - it could of been pre planned in the perps mind -

The most common homicide method, accounting for about 35% of cases in England and Wales over the last 40 years, has been use of a sharp instrument, usually a knife. The proportion of sharp-instrument homicides tends to rise in line with overall homicide and has been particularly important in driving the rise from years ending March 2015 to 2018 when 45% of homicides were sharp-instrument cases.15 For the early 2000s peak, shootings were also an important driver

 

[Blonderabbit]

Sure. But the police tend to solve knife homicides at a pretty high rate - it creates (literally...) buckets of evidence. They generally only run into trouble with gang-related silence from witnesses, and situations where key evidence is destroyed by gangs in e.g. burnt out cars.

A non-gang perpetrator carrying out a fatal stabbing in unplanned anger has poor chances of escaping conviction.[/QUOTE

Sure. But the police tend to solve knife homicides at a pretty high rate - it creates (literally...) buckets of evidence. They generally only run into trouble with gang-related silence from witnesses, and situations where key evidence is destroyed by gangs in e.g. burnt out cars.

A non-gang perpetrator carrying out a fatal stabbing in unplanned anger has poor chances of escaping conviction.

 

[Blonderabbit]

The police state someone had the presence of mind to look at the phone at 12.10pm on the 19th March 2009 and see there was a missed call and think O I best switch the phone off. Which instead of being smashed or thrown in a river suggests someone who has a calm controlled approach even under enormous pressure. Many of us would panic having just killed someone. Is this someone who would then lose control snd kill someone or in fact foes it suggest a premeditated calculated act? Of course the phone may of just run out of battery - no one knows for sure (well someone does) the police use Holmes 2 which I imagine generates a likely series of events. When you put everything together it’s likely Claudia left her house willingly - in the morning unlikely because she wasn’t on camera. More likely IMO she went to somewhere else or was somewhere else when she called her mum and dad - as she was concerned about walking to work - there was no mention about going out for the evening or a lift from a third party - so if she did go elsewhere it wasn’t planned - a quick brush of the teeth, leave toothbrush on the kitchen drainer as probably doing other things at the same time grab her rucksack , straighteners and away. The door flung open may still of been her but she came from elsewhere. (I’d be interested to know 100% for sure did she take her phone charger - is it missing or is it in the house) @Gladioli - any opinions?