No snow that day: it was in August.
http://robertetlespyrenees.kazeo.com/pic-de-sacroux-et-pic-de-la-glere14-08-2011-gallery63634
The snowy ascent was the Spanish one.
Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, Nov 2020 #7
- Thread starter FrostOwl
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http://robertetlespyrenees.kazeo.com/pic-de-sacroux-et-pic-de-la-glere14-08-2011-gallery63634
The snowy ascent was the Spanish one.
all this photo is above 2200m. accident site is down to left..
another view from the French side of the path leading up to the Port orientated so that fall line is down from the 'rocky peak' (at 2220m) to the rocky 'ledge' approx 15m below (or more like 20-30m as the crow flies/body falls) (ie consistent with discovery at 2200m unlike everything else in this thread..)
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RickshawFan
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That's now behind a paywall. But there was a comment about the snow field. Snow can happen any time....
The context was two French friends climbing to the summit from the scree slope on the French side. They had an "Ollivier" climbing guidebook with them, but all it says is:
"emprunter à gauche un large couloir de neige ou d'éboulis qui permet d'atteindre un éperon d'où l'on gagne le sommet"
"follow a broad couloir of snow or scree to the left, allowing you to reach a spur from which you reach the summit."
That is, the couloir is snow in winter and scree in summer, and they climbed in August. They had ice axes though, for use on the scree. They missed the recommended route on the way up, but one of them found it marked by cairns while descending.
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RickshawFan
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<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
... LE was very firm in stating that the skull piece was moved by animals. Up there, you have your choice of foxes, marmots, and carrion birds. That’s about it.
I don’t know the answer to The Investigator’s question—I am curious, though, and will now look it up. <modsnip>
... LE was very firm in stating that the skull piece was moved by animals. Up there, you have your choice of foxes, marmots, and carrion birds. That’s about it.
I don’t know the answer to The Investigator’s question—I am curious, though, and will now look it up. <modsnip>
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Grouse
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Think about a week ago they said a minimum of 4 weeks had been allotted for the investigation.
While I appreciate the ruling on it being an accident, I’m still hung up on the statements about death in her last three posts on SM account. Does anyone have the link or know where these might be posted in an earlier timeline thread?
Federico_A
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All this virtual-climbing of Pic de la Glere is fascinating - I now feel like I've actually done it - but I think it's absolutely off the case.
No way Esther went up the scree from the French side - it's stated to be literally impossible without an ice-axe.
The grassy shoulder with cairns is pretty definitely the Spanish side (I think there was another account of climbers describing that route) - but I still don't believe Esther would venture up there alone. The whole point of the ascent seems to be to get that sensational picture across the twin peaks - you would need a companion to do that.
Regarding the various stated distances, it seems to have got garbled in the reporting. No way that the body was found at 2200m - that's where the skull was found. And - no coincidence - that point is 400m from the peak of Pic de la Glere.
Other references to Pic de la Glere I suppose were simply referring to the whole mountain from the col upwards but I guess reporters took 'pic' to mean the actual peak.
The key thing to me is that the body was found 100m horizontal distance from the path (or maybe from the col, not much difference). That places it at point X.
No way Esther went up the scree from the French side - it's stated to be literally impossible without an ice-axe.
The grassy shoulder with cairns is pretty definitely the Spanish side (I think there was another account of climbers describing that route) - but I still don't believe Esther would venture up there alone. The whole point of the ascent seems to be to get that sensational picture across the twin peaks - you would need a companion to do that.
Regarding the various stated distances, it seems to have got garbled in the reporting. No way that the body was found at 2200m - that's where the skull was found. And - no coincidence - that point is 400m from the peak of Pic de la Glere.
Other references to Pic de la Glere I suppose were simply referring to the whole mountain from the col upwards but I guess reporters took 'pic' to mean the actual peak.
The key thing to me is that the body was found 100m horizontal distance from the path (or maybe from the col, not much difference). That places it at point X.
I can't rule out that some other grassy shoulder with cairns exists on the Spanish side in some other account, but the one mentioned by Robert and Dino is absolutely certainly in France:
"Dans la descente prudente où j'empruntais la voie de la montée en utilisant plus que jamais le piolet, les cailloux partaient de tous côtés, Dinosaure s'étant écarté sur la droite pour suivre le raide éperon rocheux et herbeux y trouvera quelques cairns qui le mèneront jusqu'à une selle herbeuse, ce qui semble être la voie "normale" d'ascension. "
"In the cautious descent, where I followed the same route I'd ascended, using the ice axe more than ever, the loose stones fell away on all sides. 'Dinosaur' having moved off to the right to follow the steep rocky and grassy spur found some cairns leading to a grassy saddle, which seems to be the 'normal' way up."
http://ekladata.com/GyWg4PwMNmTbxl7pZxhxUX4Mv24.jpg
That's Dino walking back down the spur, with the Cirque de la Glère below. The little refuge in the woods mentioned previously is in the small clearing on the tip of the wooded spur, down on the bottom left of the picture.
I agree - there's just too much ambiguity to be sure where Esther died, and without knowing that, it's really impossible to guess how, when and why she came to be there. We all have our theories, some more plausible than others, but without more solid information it's impossible to be certain.
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RedHaus
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RSBM
So @Federico_A, to clarify your 'X', is that where you surmise ED's body was found? Is it also where you think she died? And if so, if she died instantly from an accidental fall, where was she when she fell? I am curious because in my mind there are two points to be identified... where she ended up and where she fell from (whether or not she fell post mortem or fell to her death). That's why on my recent graphics I am trying to solve for two points... But you have only one. Can you help me understand your logic?
CoverMeCagney
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Message on the Esther & Dan page:
Dan, Ria and Terry are saddened by the passing of their beloved Esther who, after nine painful months of uncertainty, has now been found among the mountains she loved so much. Once Esther is returned to the family, a small, private cremation will be held close to the Pyrenees before Esther's ashes are scattered in a number of places closest to her heart.
Dan, Ria and Terry are saddened by the passing of their beloved Esther who, after nine painful months of uncertainty, has now been found among the mountains she loved so much. Once Esther is returned to the family, a small, private cremation will be held close to the Pyrenees before Esther's ashes are scattered in a number of places closest to her heart.
ZaZara
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French police to release Esther Dingley’s remains ‘soon’ so family can scatter her ashes
Esther Dingley’s remains will be released by French police “soon” to allow her family to scatter ashes “in places close to her heart”.
A source at the medico-legal facility in Toulouse, where an autopsy was carried out, said Ms Dingley “will be returned to her family soon”.
Forensic specialists linked to the Rangueil Hospital in the French city said enquiries were still ongoing because of their “highly complex” nature.
Evidence that confirmed Ms Dingley’s identity included DNA and personal possessions, while the position of the body at the bottom of a sharp incline in the Pyrenees pointed to a “long fall and then instant death,” said the source.
“Extremely complex work on a very damaged body is not instant”, the source added, but said the body “will be released soon”.
BBM
Esther Dingley’s remains will be released by French police “soon” to allow her family to scatter ashes “in places close to her heart”.
A source at the medico-legal facility in Toulouse, where an autopsy was carried out, said Ms Dingley “will be returned to her family soon”.
Forensic specialists linked to the Rangueil Hospital in the French city said enquiries were still ongoing because of their “highly complex” nature.
Evidence that confirmed Ms Dingley’s identity included DNA and personal possessions, while the position of the body at the bottom of a sharp incline in the Pyrenees pointed to a “long fall and then instant death,” said the source.
“Extremely complex work on a very damaged body is not instant”, the source added, but said the body “will be released soon”.
BBM
Federico_A
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I stand corrected. You're right, they came back down the French side and apparently found an easier route (marked by the cairn in one of the pictures) than the dodgy couloir. I was confused because of a previous account of an ascent which also mentioned cairns over a grassy shoulder and I took that to be the Spanish side (perhaps wrongly). I'm trying to locate the exact position of that cairn on Google but it's hard because of the shadows. The rough position is clear though.
Granted then it should be possible to scramble most of the way up this mountain from the French side. The last part of the ascent, though, is steep and crumbling and I'll stake my hamster's life that Esther never summitted Glere or even made the ridge, which looks like a craggy arête. If she did fall from up there, it's such a mess of rock that it would be amazing the body was ever found - I just can't imaging DC going up there and checking every cranny.
Federico_A
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Yes, I'm assuming there's a steep drop at X, even a cliff-edge, and she went over it while stretching for a photo. The body was said to be in a position that indicated instant death (so presumably crumpled unnaturally), and I guess was lodged behind projecting rocks 20-30m almost directly below where she fell. I can only suppose DC went to the same spot, peered over the edge (I would have put a camera on a stick) and spotted her below.
It doesn’t matter about those posts now.
It’s been ruled an accident by the investigation team.
That means their extensive enquiries have not revealed a suspect, and unless there was a note or other evidence indicating suicide, the Coroner will not rule suicide.
It was an accident. She fell in worn shoes.
RickshawFan
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This seems to conflict with the article ZaZa just posted. I find it extraordinary that the investigation continues, but clearly not all details have been tidied away.
I can't see it either. Grey rock on grey rock. Some of the other map packages are less affected by shadow than Google though. Géoportail is pretty good, but Acmemapper is even better. I think I'd put the photographer about here, looking SW up the scree towards the port. The flattening of the image is quite severe, and I think the vegetation has changed since the picture was taken.
I can imagine him doing exactly that. "You can find a needle in a haystack, if you're willing to study every strand, one at a time." He'd already searched some of the more accessible areas around the pic, and it took him two weeks searching every day from the discovery of the skull fragment to locate the body.
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PS
"DC located Esther's remains: he didn't reach them. It's not even necessary to assume that he reached the point she fell from. He reached a point from which he was able to see them."
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/c...2295_1033151a-8a05-4d58-9e5e-301f04525a30.jpg
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