CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

[rahod1]

Maybe, but what if a week before, let's say, someone else had hiked there? I don't know how long prints last in that soil, wind, etc. (Presumably no rain recently.)

LE said they followed footprints "consistent with the family size" so whichever way they went was known, it's just not been made clear to us.

And I wondered whether LE would have sent searchers down both routes at once -- in hindsight of course we know they would have been found sooner by the searchers going down S-L because they would have only gone 1.5 miles before finding them.

MOO

Prints would be fresh and similar on both sides....so I think they could be differentiated from older prints DOG prints would be very specific......just my take.

 

[wary]

I know Golden Retrievers, they are happy to go for a walk. But they are not Rhodesian Ridgebacks, who can lope along for miles. A Retriever will keep going to please a human, but after a few miles, they are usually ready for a rest. Not the greatest dogs for long hikes. Labs, yes, Retrievers, not so much.

I wonder how old the dog was...

There’s a MSM article from today—it was posted a few pages back, that said the dog was an Aussie(Australian Shepherd? Australian Cattle Dog?) and Akita mix. And I think the article said it was 8 years old.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

They don't get to have the benefit of hindsight. We don't know what their plan was or what may have gone wrong.

I do wonder why neither attempted a call or text, just in case it went through (if they didn't.) I think they must have both very quickly overcome (by heatstroke, JMO).

 

[Officer Dibble]

I just delved into JG’s AllTrails profile a bit further and saw that he reviewed a different trail in April and commented: “cool old mine, some views, big climbs in places.” Viewable at this link:

https://www.alltrails.com/members/jonathan-gerrish/reviews

But even if they did encounter an old mine the day they perished, and explored near it, wouldn’t the effects be instantaneous?

Regardless, his account really gives the impression of a fit, observant person who knows what he’s doing and doesn’t mind a hike with 3000ft or more of gain…

ETA: He visited another trail that he calls “Comet Mine and Skelton Creek,” also in April 2021. Neither of those names turns up anything on AllTrails. Is it possible he had an interest in old mines? MOO.

Good points made here. JMO

 

[Seattle1]

Thanks for linking JG's AllTrails profile --since 2016.
Shattered for their family and friends. I don't think I was worthy to even carry their water! I best get off my duff and stop being such a slug. Godspeed Mate.

 

[Deleted member 292879]

Good morning sleuths, I just wanted to throw my two cents in about Jonathan’s search of the trail the day before. I believe he was searching the intended trail. On AllTrails, it’s called Hite Cove Road, as opposed to Hite Cove Trail, which is the more popular spring wildflower trail about 10 miles away and entered via a highway. Based on his AllTrails history (making lists of Mariposa area hikes, etc) I think this was the intended trail they planned to take. IMO he’d simply done too many hikes in the area and too much research on the site to confuse the two.

And yes, I do think he was interested in old mines as I mentioned a few pages back. What’s curious is that most of his 2021 activity is hikes under five miles or so (and of course we don’t know if these were solo or with the family). Again, two of these were to mines that aren’t even listed as destinations on AllTrails; he simply created routes that passed by them.

You do wonder why they would pick a 90+ degree day to do 8.5 miles. But maybe they were just planning a 5-or-so-mile out-and-back. That said, the summer was full of hot days, and they surely hiked on several of them.

The proximity of the Devils Gulch and Blossom #1 mines to the Merced River is concerning. If offgassing wasn’t a factor, it’s possible these mines are (still) contaminating the river water in that area. You have to believe that LE knows about these two mines (and the third just off Hite Cove Rd) and has checked them out to eliminate them as a factor. But from what I’ve read, toxicology would be the only way to rule the mines out as being somehow involved.

ETA: link to my earlier post about the mines: CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

 

[bpeterson912]

I just delved into JG’s AllTrails profile a bit further and saw that he reviewed a different trail in April and commented: “cool old mine, some views, big climbs in places.” Viewable at this link:

https://www.alltrails.com/members/jonathan-gerrish/reviews

But even if they did encounter an old mine the day they perished, and explored near it, wouldn’t the effects be instantaneous?

Regardless, his account really gives the impression of a fit, observant person who knows what he’s doing and doesn’t mind a hike with 3000ft or more of gain…

ETA: He visited another trail that he calls “Comet Mine and Skelton Creek,” also in April 2021. Neither of those names turns up anything on AllTrails. Is it possible he had an interest in old mines? MOO.

I've done a lot of trail hiking in the Sierra foothills. There are mines everywhere. I'm not someone who posts about my hikes on social media, but if I did I'm sure I would at least occasionally mention the mines I passed when describing my foothill hikes--and I have no particular interest in mines.

I'm not trying to discourage you (or anyone else) from exploring the "mine" angle. I just wanted to share my perspective as someone who has spent a lot of time hiking in the area.

 

[jonjon747]

Erm, are you saying it could possibly be UFO related? Just asking...

Just waiting to see how the toxicology would turn up.
If still no answers by then, wth it could be another "fire in the sky" story, who knows.
oh wait, but I had posted a pic from google map on my first comment (I"m new here btw).
It looks like a devil's face with horns and where the family was found is pretty much right in between the devil's horns, they couldn't escape the gulch maybe? IDK I think the place is cursed (all trees now burnt too)

 

[Speculaytor]

“Authorities conducted searches of the family's cars and phones, and officials say ‘nothing significant was located.’”

Thank you for posting the first update in a week! A call for help would be “significant” and would be logged even if they couldn’t connect to 911. Their phones would also save attempted texts. This makes me more wary of the heat stroke theory - if one person was affected even minutes after the other and had that “grace period,” why not try to call 911 or text someone?

Edit: I do understand that they might have seen no bars and felt that service was bad or non-existent, but wouldn’t you still try if you had nothing to lose and everything to gain, hoping the signal would capture? Or attempt a text, hoping that if the signal momentarily improved, it would send? Thinking of the Dutch girls who died in the jungle in South America and repeatedly tried to call 911 over a period of days without reception.

If they had heatstroke, it can come on very quickly and you become confused. They may have been in survival mode, not thinking clearly, no bars as you say, so they don't try. I would not have known that trying a call even when there is no service will register that call. I do now, thank you. If they did they 8.5 mile loop in 100+ degree temps, their body temperatures would have continued to rise without anywhere to cool them down. It is like being in an oven, and then exerting yourself. It is just an all around dangerous thing to do. There is no where for body temperature to go but up.

 

[mickey2942]

There’s a MSM article from today—it was posted a few pages back, that said the dog was an Aussie(Australian Shepherd? Australian Cattle Dog?) and Akita mix. And I think the article said it was 8 years old.

Thanks. I saw one article that mentioned the dog was a Retriever. An Akita mix could take on a hike like that, but he would have been hot.

What a tragedy.

 

[Deleted member 292879]

I've done a lot of trail hiking in the Sierra foothills. There are mines everywhere. I'm not someone who posts about my hikes on social media, but if I did I'm sure I would at least occasionally mention the mines I passed when describing my foothill hikes--and I have no particular interest in mines.

I'm not trying to discourage you (or anyone else) from exploring the "mine" angle. I just wanted to share my perspective as someone who has spent a lot of time hiking in the area.

For sure. I just found it interesting that he named these two logged activities after two mines, rather than after trails already in the AllTrails database (presumably the mines were marked with signage, but no signage appeared in his photos).

And I don’t mean to suggest he was doing anything reckless or risky by going near them. I am only trying to get a picture of who these people were, and it sounds like they were passionate and studious in their exploration of where they lived.

My bet is still on toxins either in the air or the water.

 

[RickshawFan]

Unlikely they ran into trouble going down hill. More likely going up, which bolsters the thesis that they were making a round trip (loop) or turning back up the same trail after reaching the bottom. MOO

They could have realized on the way down they had underestimated the trail and conditions, though, and not wanted to do switchbacks uphill later. So, they turned around.
This would actually have been the experienced thing to do. Starting the hike would be a mistake, but bailing soon would speak to experienced outdoorsfolks acting on a “no-go” situation.
The dog would have been in trouble already by the time they headed down the switchbacks.

This couple might just not have had any experience bailing from a hike. Maybe that sounds bizarre, but IME most people wouldn’t really do that. You have to be willing to double back the way you came before you reach your goal. More so on a loop. If they were on a loop, they might very well be inclined to continue on rather than double back. This is a problem in loop hiking; you can override your sense of danger and bully yourself forward to complete the loop.
I’ve had to turn back at mile 8 of a 9 mile loop within 2 hours of darkness. I was with a group of maybe 12, and we reached a snowfield. It was impossible to tell where the trail went. Luckily, we had savvy and decisive leaders. We took the route of safety. But we were familiar with the trail from having hiked it already, so we got back to the cars before dark. We stopped for beer and homemade pie on the 2-hour trip home. Legendary.

But I haven’t taken off the table that the family planned a little jaunt, bailed, and it was too late. This scenario would make more sense to me than they set out for an all-day hike. Supposing they were only hiking to the nearest mine. Where is it?

 

[GatorFL]

Someone asked upthread how long the loop hike would take. For me, I calculate 2 miles per hour, including breaks. It’s almost like clockwork. But maybe these folks could go as much as 3, especially if they were along the river, though certainly not up those switchbacks. I’m thinking in acceptable conditions, this would be a 3.5 hour hike, including a couple of quick breaks to give the baby snacks etc.

Agreed, about a 3.5 hour hike IMO.

 

[RickshawFan]

If they had hiked an intended loop by going the Hite Cove trail first, then there wouldn't have been any of their footprints on the "steep straight road" for LE to follow, right?

So I think the language used suggests they went down Savage-Lundy (how much farther than where they were found we don't know, but LE would know based on footprints) and were trying to go back up.

MOO

I’ve been leaning towards this from the get-go. I just don’t think it’s at all compatible with their experience level that they took the loop.
They could have planned out the gulch trail using the old Google Earth maps, not realizing the trees had been burned? Then, when they realized, they turned right around, but it was too late?
The USGS map likely has the mines on it…

 

[GatorFL]

They could have realized on the way down they had underestimated the trail and conditions, though, and not wanted to do switchbacks uphill later. So, they turned around.
This would actually have been the experienced thing to do. Starting the hike would be a mistake, but bailing soon would speak to experienced outdoorsfolks acting on a “no-go” situation.
The dog would have been in trouble already by the time they headed down the switchbacks.

This couple might just not have had any experience bailing from a hike. Maybe that sounds bizarre, but IME most people wouldn’t really do that. You have to be willing to double back the way you came. Actually, if they were on a loop, they might very well be inclined to continue on rather than double back. This is a problem in loop hiking; you can override your sense of danger and bully yourself forward to complete the loop.
I’ve had to turn back at mile 8 of a 9 mile loop within 2 hours of darkness. I was with a group and we reached a snowfield. It was impossible to tell where the trail went. Luckily, we had savvy and decisive leaders. We took the route of safety.

But I haven’t taken off the table that the family planned a little jaunt, bailed, and it was too late. This scenario would make more sense to me than they set out for an all-day hike. Supposing they were only hiking to the nearest mine. Where is it?

I typically hike in a group but I do hike by myself as well.

Loop hikes I like to be in a group since you never know what you'll encounter. An out and back, I feel comfortable hiking by myself.

BBM about turning back: I've seen it many times where people did not want to turn around. I have seen this after injuries, equipment malfunction and weather. Sometimes the best thing to do is to simply turn around and call it a day.

PLB, don't really need one here but definitely out west where cell service is spotty. I wouldn't even like to do sections of the AT without a PLB.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Just waiting to see how the toxicology would turn up.
If still no answers by then, wth it could be another "fire in the sky" story, who knows.
oh wait, but I had posted a pic from google map on my first comment (I"m new here btw).
It looks like a devil's face with horns and where the family was found is pretty much right in between the devil's horns, they couldn't escape the gulch maybe? IDK I think the place is cursed (all trees now burnt too)

Interesting! Thanks

 

[fred&edna]

 

[CocoChanel]

Can you copy and paste the whole article? It’s behind a paywall.

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[RickshawFan]

Maybe, but what if a week before, let's say, someone else had hiked there? I don't know how long prints last in that soil, wind, etc. (Presumably no rain recently.)

LE said they followed footprints "consistent with the family size" so whichever way they went was known, it's just not been made clear to us.

And I wondered whether LE would have sent searchers down both routes at once -- in hindsight of course we know they would have been found sooner by the searchers going down S-L because they would have only gone 1.5 miles before finding them.

MOO

I visualize the first search in the dark performed by maybe 3 LE, regular guys/gals, not SAR types. They use flashlights. It’s difficult to find anything with flashlights in the black night of the backcountry (cf how quickly you lose your tent if you get up to pee in the night, even though you’re wearing a headlamp). They’re on the dirt road. They don’t find the family. For safety reasons, they don’t continue at night and muster SAR and the helicopter for the next morning. The order is for SAR to head down the switchbacks, which are more technical trail than the road).

 

[Deleted member 292879]

Supposing they were only hiking to the nearest mine. Where is it?

If (big if) they explored one or more mines, the first is off Hite Cove Road, back a bit from the fork that goes off to Marble Canyon to the left and Savage-Lundy to the right. Seeing the mine would mean walking off the trail.

Blossom #1 mine is about halfway point on the loop, along the Merced River, steps off the trail.

Devils Gulch mine is at the base of Savage-Lundy, but appears to be across the water, steps from the water’s edge. This data is from inputting the GPS coordinates into Google Earth. Big fissures and old trails to the mines are all visible on GE.

Again, not saying they would have risked their lives to go right up to any of them, but with three in their vicinity, I’m not convinced yet that the mines weren’t connected to what happened.