Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #62

[Ruminations]

I also found Garth's description of Tammy being half on half off the bed, yet hearing a "thud", supposedly when this occurred. I don't understand why she would not have been all the way off the bed and how he accounts for this.

I do think that this was included in Garth's grand jury testimony. Supposedly his mother-in-law was called to testify about overhearing Garth say that he lifted Tammy back onto the bed.

A friend of mine died a couple of years ago. She was in the hospital and her son was standing by. He had been told that all her kidneys and lungs were shutting down, and she appeared comatose, when she suddenly flipped over. He took it that she was not as close to death as they had said. I took it as some kind of reflex movement by a body in the throes of death.

That’s a good point, sometimes bodies spasm early post-mortem.

(And really close loved ones of the dying are more likely to interpret data, like any movement, optimistically.)

I am inclined to believe that the truth is that Chad tried to move her off the floor, where she was lying dead because Chad didn’t want to catch zzz’s next to her. Eww, and besides, he had a special long body pillow named Lori, and the bed wasn’t big enough for the three of them.

In the morning he was surprised that she felt heavier and forgot how weak his own earthly body was. So he dropped her, making a thud, then tried to put her on the bed part at a time. Then, he heard others awake and started screaming.

Or, because Chaddy deserved a good scare:

Chad killed her, then, having no remorse, figured that he may as well get some sleep before calling 911. In this version, he shares the bed with the body, yucky, but safer if someone comes into the room before he wakes. He sleepily opens his eyes and semi-conscious, he briefly considers that he is full of poopie, not one of the chosen ones, and perhaps a real deity could be Old Testament angry. Tammy’s body spasms, and he momentarily imagines his “real” deity has brought her back to life for the task of killing him. He screams for mercy.

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

Wasn't Means also questioning the transfer of half of Tammy's estate to the Daybell siblings when Chad has made no attempt to pay Means for Lori's representation?

RSBM. “Estate”? Would that include the secondary pet cemetery, or the original pet cemetery. These folks don’t have much to divide amongst their off spring, let alone an “estate”.

About the only time I can see the words "Chad" and "fun" being used together in the same sentence is when discussing a certain "raccoon" text as well. "Fun times!" Not!

YMMV.

JMO.
Even then, it’s a stretch. I don’t think this guy would know about anything “fun” even if it bit him in his Dough Boy. . JMO

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

Yeah, she sure did.

I don't think she spent a lot of time thinking that one through...

Shocker.... MOO

 

[Ruminations]

.

With a few others, like Alex, MBP and ZP, MG was a member of Chad's mini cult, which seems to have been based in Arizona. So it's not surprising that Chad was friendly with her on the call. Lori wasn't known to attend PAP conferences before she went to one with MG. Maybe she would not have met Chad if she wasn't friends with MG first. Out of the core group members, MG is the only one who is fully cooperating with the investigation. ZP has an immunity agreement with the Idaho prosecutors, but we don't know how much she is ready to divulge, and MBP isn't talking.

I agree, except with the description “mini cult.” I think more parties are guilty. Not guilty of murder, but guilty of pushing an ideology that knowingly harms others, separates families, and fraudulently makes money.

Either this is a big cult, or it is a large decentralized group of little cults.

AVOW and PAP are not blameless.

IMO.

 

[Ruminations]

For those who have not seen the "Girl On Fire" AKA "Little Red" interview by Lauren Matthias on Hidden True Crime, Little Red says that the prophecy that the other spouse would die first was common at JR seminars - and in fact, JR had also predicted that her spouse, also a JR, would die first. Lauren followed that interview with one with ES, who elaborated on this as a contemplation on "what would I do if?".

Yes. This is important. Not because people like JR are guilty of murder. But there is a much larger group than Chad and company that did a lot of grifting and a lot of damage. I am not saying it is relevant as evidence of the accused persons‘ guilt for murdering innocent spouses and children. I am not making an excuse for the murderers. But this larger group is fraudulent and dangerous.

 

[887sMtreme]

In Tammy's case, in some versions of events Chad claimed that Tammy had been dead for hours when he discovered her. If that had been the case, she would not have moved on her own. Otherwise resuscitation could have been attempted. How come that Chad didn't hear her struggle to breathe? What woke him up? He told so many different versions that it's difficult to establish which elements are truthful, if any. One source of discrepancy was his attempt to present her death as peaceful to the public and another could be covering up for murder.

When CD spoke of Tammy Looking “peaceful,” with a “little smile,” I think he added “when she was buried” or “at the funeral” or something like that, not when he saw her in bed, dead. Is that correct? There might have been two quotes from CD on that subject. I don’t want to make the mistake on conflating the two if so.

 

[alexwood]

"A felony indictment indicates that on Oct. 26, 2018, Lori Vallow Daybell and Chad Daybell began discussing their religious beliefs to justify killing Tammy Daybell, Joshua “JJ” Vallow and Tylee Ryan."
The latest timeline in the Lori and Chad Daybell case - East Idaho News

That's a year before Tammy died.

To me, that's the date that the prosecution has evidence of the beginning of the conspiracy. It could have started earlier, without documentation.

It's interesting that it doesn't mention a plan to murder Charles Vallow.

It seems unlikely that Lori and Chad would be conspiring about the 3 later deaths, and meanwhile Lori acting alone in her desire to eliminate Charles.

I think it's just the prosecution constructing the case out of what they can prove.

From the above timeline:
[BBM and underscored]

"Within weeks of Tammy’s death, Chad and Lori are married in Hawaii on Nov. 5. They then return to Rexburg. Over the coming weeks, police say Chad told witnesses that Lori had no minor children. Police also say Lori told people Tylee died years earlier."

It always infuriates me when the timeline or news accounts report that it was "weeks" after Tammy Daybell "died" [was murdered], that Cad* and Lori were married.

Tammy was murdered on Saturday, October 19, 2019. Those two were married on Tuesday, November 5, 2019 -- that's a mere 17 days (or, 2 weeks and 3 days) after Tammy was murdered. "Weeks", to me, implies that it was 5 weeks, 6 weeks -- a more lengthy period of time. But it was much faster than that. Mr. thinking with the wrong head was hot to trot. He wanted to get the deal done.

*By the way, "Cad" is not a typo.

 

[Boxer]

That’s a good point, sometimes bodies spasm early post-mortem.

(And really close loved ones of the dying are more likely to interpret data, like any movement, optimistically.)

I am inclined to believe that the truth is that Chad tried to move her off the floor, where she was lying dead because Chad didn’t want to catch zzz’s next to her. Eww, and besides, he had a special long body pillow named Lori, and the bed wasn’t big enough for the three of them.

In the morning he was surprised that she felt heavier and forgot how weak his own earthly body was. So he dropped her, making a thud, then tried to put her on the bed part at a time. Then, he heard others awake and started screaming.

Or, because Chaddy deserved a good scare:

Chad killed her, then, having no remorse, figured that he may as well get some sleep before calling 911. In this version, he shares the bed with the body, yucky, but safer if someone comes into the room before he wakes. He sleepily opens his eyes and semi-conscious, he briefly considers that he is full of poopie, not one of the chosen ones, and perhaps a real deity could be Old Testament angry. Tammy’s body spasms, and he momentarily imagines his “real” deity has brought her back to life for the task of killing him. He screams for mercy.

An autopsy would have revealed if she was moved before or after death. Hate to say it, but did Garth help his Dad cover up some elements of TD death? Maybe pressed for no autopsy for this reason.

 

[Jolynna]

The "thud" thing makes me wonder, too. A thud indicates she wasn't "dying peacefully" as Chad tried to make everyone believe.

The most logical reason for a "thud" is that Chad dropped Tammy, at least part way, at least once, trying to get her into the bed. ??? as to why Tammy was on the floor and for how long.

When CD spoke of Tammy Looking “peaceful,” with a “little smile,” I think he added “when she was buried” or “at the funeral” or something like that, not when he saw her in bed, dead. Is that correct? There might have been two quotes from CD on that subject. I don’t want to make the mistake on conflating the two if so.

When Chad spoke of Tammy "looking peaceful" and with "a little smile", he was describing Tammy when he saw her in bed, dead. Within days of Tammy's death, he published an essay titled ‘Moving into the Second Half of My Life’ in the LDS-AVOW (Another Voice of Warning) Global Initiative Newsletter. The essay starts out with Chad depicting 6 a.m., Oct. 19, 2019. Here's part of the essay Chad Daybell wrote about his wife 12 days after she died - East Idaho News

MOO & IMO

 

[Ruminations]

An autopsy would have revealed if she was moved before or after death. Hate to say it, but did Garth help his Dad cover up some elements of TD death? Maybe pressed for no autopsy for this reason.

IANACSA (I am not a crime scene analyst) but I believe you are right. If Tammy died in one position and was moved after a enough time for blood to Pool, it would be observable that she was moved. However, I don’t think it would be obvious if her position was left unchanged- lying prone on floor vs. lying prone on bed- if her body was moved stiff. There could be clues, however. Such as the presence or absence of a carpet pattern, egg crate foam pattern, etc. Also, if the body were moved while blood was still pooling, there might be clues like a change- blanching that stays, etc. On parts touched.

If she was injured by being dropped, it would be obvious if that were after death.

I am not of the belief that there would be body-evidence that ruled out all of Chad and Garth and Emma’s statements. It’s not impossible that a person accidentally knocks someone out of bed. It would be smoking-gun sus if Garth or Chad left out the dropping detail. It is not that sus that Chad described her as peaceful. (It sounds like the nice thing to say, like complements on an outfit you think is ugly.) unless, of course, it looked like her arms were in rigor around where a pillow was or something.

As far as I know, Garth came upon a dead Tammy and his father did not say, “Man to man, I killed her. I know my secret is safe with you.” His account could be true, albeit difficult to believe he believes still that his father is innocent.

One of the less believable things is thè report that Chad did not recognize she was dead or was surprised. Even Chad’s supporters at the time said that he knew in advance she would die young, and allegedly was upset about being “shown” that. Dude always has to be the victim, even of his “gifts.”

I wonder, but do not have the stomach to find out, what kind of dribble was in Rowe’s books for which Emma read the audio version. Was it BS that would open Emma up to learning about her father’s “visions?” She seemed like a favorite. Maybe she was read in, but decided to be part of the 144K on the down low, at least until her school closed for an Armageddon day.

I feel awful for those kiddults. All their lives they have been told that they are part of a solid, wholesome family. They probably pity or fear anyone who was not like them. Now it is crumbling apart. Even if they were not part of Chad’s inner circle they were sheltered. Wait until they find out that most of the heathens encountered on missions were nice, and their dad was not nice- not to their mother, especially.

 

[Gigiky]

An autopsy would have revealed if she was moved before or after death. Hate to say it, but did Garth help his Dad cover up some elements of TD death? Maybe pressed for no autopsy for this reason.

I didn't want to say it first, I agree.

 

[Pabiabi]

Don't hold me to it but I think it was Massachusetts because that's what's in my search history from when I tried to look up the law.

I'm pretty sure it was New York.

 

[carbuff]

Beautiful scenery. Would be a great place for a hike. Or just sit and view through a barred window.

On the Clearwater River. One of the most gorgeous places in the world.

Too good for Lori.

 

[CSIDreamer]

On the Clearwater River. One of the most gorgeous places in the world.

Too good for Lori.

Am I the only one that finds mental hospitals on rivers to be odd? I'm not even joking. There was (i dont even know if it's open still) a mental hospital on the Wabash River. People occasionally threw themselves into it.

 

[carbuff]

Am I the only one that finds mental hospitals on rivers to be odd? I'm not even joking. There was (i dont even know if it's open still) a mental hospital on the Wabash River. People occasionally threw themselves into it.

It seems possibly unwise, to be sure.

Idaho is mostly mountains and valleys, so it would be hard to not be fairly near a river.

 

[JRWoodwardMSW]

I wonder if they have a portal room there.

They sure don’t need a room for the kids.

From the above timeline:
[BBM and underscored]

"Within weeks of Tammy’s death, Chad and Lori are married in Hawaii on Nov. 5. They then return to Rexburg. Over the coming weeks, police say Chad told witnesses that Lori had no minor children. Police also say Lori told people Tylee died years earlier."

It always infuriates me when the timeline or news accounts report that it was "weeks" after Tammy Daybell "died" [was murdered], that Cad* and Lori were married.

Tammy was murdered on Saturday, October 19, 2019. Those two were married on Tuesday, November 5, 2019 -- that's a mere 17 days (or, 2 weeks and 3 days) after Tammy was murdered. "Weeks", to me, implies that it was 5 weeks, 6 weeks -- a more lengthy period of time. But it was much faster than that. Mr. thinking with the wrong head was hot to trot. He wanted to get the deal done.

*By the way, "Cad" is not a typo.

I’m partial to CHUD myself.

 

[Kemug]

My point being that Colby is well aware of the atrocities his mom snd Chad have committed. Chads children won’t face it because they choose not to see the truth.
Neither Chad nor Lori know what remorse is. Money and power was their motivator.[/QUOTE]
And don't forget the sex.

 

[ReadySet]

So is the thought that LVD is or has been up in Orofino? I know the Dr. from State Hospital North was on the document...I don't know, I guess it would make sense in a way that she has been far away. It's like 500 miles. I'm sure they would have flown. LVD does like to travel I guess.

 

[Kemug]

Mr. thinking with the wrong head

Love it!!

 

[Kemug]

If the multiple lives stuff is really true, then I hope that Tammy gets a really really nice husband next time around. If anyone deserves one it's her.