Found Deceased UK - Leah Croucher, 19, Emerson Valley, Milton Keynes, 14 Feb 2019 #4

[Woodburnbay]

This an interesting viewpoint and not one I've considered before. Definitely a possibility but I would've thought her family would have noticed her sneaking a bag out of the house when she left or noticed any items missing from her room afterwards.



Yes that's correct it is underneath her coat in cctv images. The sighting of the hoodie was reported around 4 months after her disappearance so do you believe after leaving the area to disappear leah returned 4 months later to place it to throw off the police investigation (which police had already admitted they had no leads and her disappearance was 'baffling') or was it there the whole time and during their extensive searches they completely missed it? Only to then find out about it 4 months later but by then it's disappeared? Not trying to be confrontational just genuinely curious.

When was the last time LC parents or family saw her, was it the night she returned from her outing 14th or did they see her before they left the house.

What I am saying is, do we know that she left for work in the morning or left the house on the evening / early hours after returning on night of 14th to go somewhere?

 

[Officer Dibble]

Was X related or known by a grooming gang-If x was in a relationship with LC, had one of gang met her?
X wouldn't have to be in gang, but if he also had his suspicions he may have revealed them to Police.

It would be at this point he could be helping police with enquiries and Police were already observing gang.

At this stage, a watched gang of groomers, police would not want to reveal that they had suspicions of this, even to parents.

Often unsolved cases are unsolved for what Police may consider "The greater good" In this case, catching a gang responsible for multiple disappearances.

There has been reference to other disappearances in this and the wider area in the last few years.IMO

You make very good points IMO

 

[Officer Dibble]

When was the last time LC parents or family saw her, was it the night she returned from her outing 14th or did they see her before they left the house.

What I am saying is, do we know that she left for work in the morning or left the house on the evening / early hours after returning on night of 14th to go somewhere?

In the recesses of my mind there is footage of her up until a certain point in the walk to work in the alleyway. IIRC.

 

[Woodburnbay]

In the recesses of my mind there is footage of her up until a certain point in the walk to work in the alleyway. IIRC.

But had she been out all night and instead of walking from home had she walked from another house

 

[dotr]

Buckinghamshire groomed girl abused by 60 men in 'ring of horror'

https://www.parliament.uk/globalass.../home-affairs/121016-LCG-written-evidence.pdf

Child sex ring jailed after grooming girls for 'the price of a McDonald's'

Milton Keynes Child Exploitation Indicator Tool - MK Together
https://www.mktogether.co.uk › uploads › 2021/03
''The Child Exploitation Indicator Tool can be used by any professional working with children under the age of 18, whilst we appreciate some adolescents prefer the term ‘young people’, for the purpose of this document we will refer to them as children. Different types of exploitation are:
1 Sexual Exploitation Any sexual activity with a child in exchange for something the victim needs or wants or to enhance a perpetrator’s reputation/status or for the financial gain of the perpetrator

2 Criminal Exploitation Forcing/coercing a child to engage in criminal behaviour eg drug dealing, county lines, holding weapons/drugs, ABH, GBH, shoplifting, burglary, mugging etc

3 Forced Labour Employing a child to undertake some form of employment to pay off any ‘debts’ or pay minimal amounts. Engage in work that is illegal for their age.

4 Other
The illegal removal of a child’s organ to be sold for human organ transplant, Illegal adoption, etc

Often, children do not recognise themselves as victims, or that they are being groomed, and as a result, disclosures of such abuse can be unlikely. Therefore, this indicator tool aids the identification of exploitation; if you suspect anyone is in immediate danger, call the Police on 999''

My boy was brutally knifed to death by gangster in Britain's new 'Colombia' Milton Keynes
18 Jun 2020

 

[Woodburnbay]

I understand that LC brother was troubled with mental health issues and this must be awful?
It is impossible to understand the mind of someone prior to taking their own life.

I have always thought that did the disappearance of his sister push him over the edge?

Was he pushed over the edge because he knew that someone had killed her?

Was it because he thought whilst she was still alive he would not see her again for a particular reason?

Did he blame himself as he was her older Big Brother?

Or was his suicide totally unrelated?

The parents must be going through hell having lost 2 children in such a short space of time.

There doesn't appear to be much mention of the Martial Arts club LC attended with her Dad, what about some of the other members she would come in contact with-Is there any suspicion here?

 

[Woodburnbay]

This is my take on things as it doesn't appear to be mentioned in the threads I have seen or any of the posts:

The important timeline:

• She goes out at about 17:45 GMT, returning at about 19:15. Police do not know where she was during this time.
• Her parents last see her when she goes to bed at about 22:00.
• 15 February - she is seen on CCTV in Furzton walking in the direction of her work at 08:16

How do we know that LC did not sneak out of her house after 22:00 on 14th February as no one checks up on her the next morning?

Was she captured on CCTV walking towards work from somewhere other than her own house.

I say this because it then introduces a different perspective to the case as follows:

She has been somewhere during the night and has left to go to work.

Where was that somewhere?

Many may have an alibi but where was she between 22:00 hours on 14th and when seen on camera at 08:16 on 15th????

 

[Woodburnbay]

This is my take on things as it doesn't appear to be mentioned in the threads I have seen or any of the posts:

The important timeline:

• She goes out at about 17:45 GMT, returning at about 19:15. Police do not know where she was during this time.
• Her parents last see her when she goes to bed at about 22:00.
• 15 February - she is seen on CCTV in Furzton walking in the direction of her work at 08:16

How do we know that LC did not sneak out of her house after 22:00 on 14th February as no one checks up on her the next morning?

Was she captured on CCTV walking towards work from somewhere other than her own house.

I say this because it then introduces a different perspective to the case as follows:

She has been somewhere during the night and has left to go to work.

Where was that somewhere?

Many may have an alibi but where was she between 22:00 hours on 14th and when seen on camera at 08:16 on 15th????

The above scenarios would explain why she looked somewhat disheveled on the CCTV. had she spent all night not sleeping, and perhaps in a car.

I feel that the police know far more here and are just waiting for someone to make the wrong move.

 

[WiseOwl]

The above scenarios would explain why she looked somewhat disheveled on the CCTV. had she spent all night not sleeping, and perhaps in a car.

I feel that the police know far more here and are just waiting for someone to make the wrong move.

Hi Woodburnbay & welcome to Leah's thread.

In respect of what the police know regards Leah's disappearance it might be useful for you to read DCI Howard's interview with the MK Citizen dated 15 February 2021. He clearly states that there is no proof of any crime being committed, they are adamant no third party was involved and he believes that Leah left of her own accord.

In this scenario no alibi's are required as in the TVP's opinion nothing criminal has occurred.

DCI Howard interview with Sally Murrer here:

Police reveal hope that Leah Croucher might still be alive on the second anniversary of her disappearance from Milton Keynes

 

[Candelle]

Imo I do think that the police are withholding some info, especially around Mr X as they appear certain he isnt involved, but I do feel there will be a reason for doing so if that is the case, just what that reason is, who knows.

The events of the evening she went out and then returned shortly after seem a bit muddled to me, some reports seem to say she got herself a Chinese takeaway and others don't?

Personally, I would say suicide seems fairly likely for several reasons, but the fact that nothing has been found makes me doubt it; unless there's a sequence of very unlikely conditions and scenarios, it's very hard to disappear without a trace especially if you are doing so by yourself.

Where are you Leah?

 

[WiseOwl]

Imo I do think that the police are withholding some info, especially around Mr X as they appear certain he isnt involved, but I do feel there will be a reason for doing so if that is the case, just what that reason is, who knows.

The events of the evening she went out and then returned shortly after seem a bit muddled to me, some reports seem to say she got herself a Chinese takeaway and others don't?

Personally, I would say suicide seems fairly likely for several reasons, but the fact that nothing has been found makes me doubt it; unless there's a sequence of very unlikely conditions and scenarios, it's very hard to disappear without a trace especially if you are doing so by yourself.

Where are you Leah?

Welcome to Leah's thread too Candelle.

IMO I don't believe that the police are withholding information because I really don't believe that they investigated Leah's disappearance thoroughly enough, especially where Mr X is concerned.

I have said it before in previous post's but why on earth the TVP only asked for CCTV footage from around the area for just 3 hours (8 - 11) seems incredibly short-sighted now. Leah could have been anywhere at anytime that day so why limit footage to just those 3 hours - ridiculous!

It has also been said that Mr X had an alibi for the morning Leah disappeared, but if, as the police say, there has been no crime committed then why would he need an alibi anyway?

Too many inconsistences in the police's investigation into this case if you ask me

 

[Woodburnbay]

Hi Woodburnbay & welcome to Leah's thread.

In respect of what the police know regards Leah's disappearance it might be useful for you to read DCI Howard's interview with the MK Citizen dated 15 February 2021. He clearly states that there is no proof of any crime being committed, they are adamant no third party was involved and he believes that Leah left of her own accord.

In this scenario no alibi's are required as in the TVP's opinion nothing criminal has occurred.

DCI Howard interview with Sally Murrer here:

Police reveal hope that Leah Croucher might still be alive on the second anniversary of her disappearance from Milton Keynes

Do you believe the police account of things then WiseOwl??

 

[WiseOwl]

Do you believe the police account of things then WiseOwl??

No I don't believe it at all.

DCI Howard says there is no evidence of any crime being committed but equally, there is no evidence that Leah left of her own accord. So why does he decide that it's the latter as regards what happened to Leah - is it because it's the easy way out for the TVP?

 

[Woodburnbay]

No I don't believe it at all.

DCI Howard says there is no evidence of any crime being committed but equally, there is no evidence that Leah left of her own accord. So why does he decide that it's the latter as regards what happened to Leah - is it because it's the easy way out for the TVP?

Having studies the way that police have conducted themselves in number of high profile cases (Stephen Lawrence ) to name one.
I have little faith in them.

On the one hand they don't want to admit to institutionalised racism and on the other they are afraid of going after grooming gangs, who as we know are non caucasian.

Perhaps they don't like treading on eggshells which is a shameful way for Britain to be policed.

 

[Bluebear15]

Having studies the way that police have conducted themselves in number of high profile cases (Stephen Lawrence ) to name one.
I have little faith in them.

On the one hand they don't want to admit to institutionalised racism and on the other they are afraid of going after grooming gangs, who as we know are non caucasian.

Perhaps they don't like treading on eggshells which is a shameful way for Britain to be policed.

There is a grooming gang from Glasgow currently waiting to go to trial and the accused are all white Scots, which ties in with the Home Office report from 2018 which stated that the majority of sexually abused children are groomed by white people.

I have no idea why grooming gangs are even being mentioned as Mr X has been investigated by the police and found to have an alibi. To assume that because he is Asian he must be part of a grooming gang is quite frankly racist!!

 

[dotr]

Wondering if LC's brother ever spelled out to his parents how and why he thought his sister was being groomed, did he just assume it? speculation, imo.
Judge warns missing girl's brother 'stop threatening ex he believes groomed her'
30 May 2019
''A judge took pity on Haydon Croucher, whose sister Leah Croucher, 19, has been missing for months''

Dec 20 2020 rbbm.
Grooming gangs come from ‘diverse backgrounds’, says Home Office as review finally published
''In the year to March 2020, around 10,500 crimes were put under a new CSE “flag” created by police to improve data collection.

A snapshot of data taken in June 2020 showed there were more than 70 live grooming gang investigations across England, Wales and Scotland, although only 32 of 44 forces submitted information.

The nationalities and ethnicities of suspects in current investigations “varied considerably”, the report said, including British, American, Bangladeshi, Bulgarian, Dutch, Eritrean, Indian, Jamaican, Lithuanian, Pakistani, Portuguese and Somali.''
Grooming gang who sexually abused vulnerable Scots teen jailed for 15 years
2020

Aivars Hauberts (L), Ailands Aleksanders (C) and Ludvigs Rudevics

 

[Bluebear15]

Wondering if LC's brother ever spelled out to his parents how and why he thought his sister was being groomed, did he just assume it? speculation, imo.
Judge warns missing girl's brother 'stop threatening ex he believes groomed her'
30 May 2019
''A judge took pity on Haydon Croucher, whose sister Leah Croucher, 19, has been missing for months''

Dec 20 2020 rbbm.
Grooming gangs come from ‘diverse backgrounds’, says Home Office as review finally published
''In the year to March 2020, around 10,500 crimes were put under a new CSE “flag” created by police to improve data collection.

A snapshot of data taken in June 2020 showed there were more than 70 live grooming gang investigations across England, Wales and Scotland, although only 32 of 44 forces submitted information.

The nationalities and ethnicities of suspects in current investigations “varied considerably”, the report said, including British, American, Bangladeshi, Bulgarian, Dutch, Eritrean, Indian, Jamaican, Lithuanian, Pakistani, Portuguese and Somali.''
Grooming gang who sexually abused vulnerable Scots teen jailed for 15 years
2020

Aivars Hauberts (L), Ailands Aleksanders (C) and Ludvigs Rudevics

The girl groomed by that gang was under the age of 16, whereas Leah was a 19 year old adult - imo the idea of grooming is ridiculous.

The gang I was talking about is in this link
Gran accused of raping young child in 'Glasgow paedo ring' found dead at home

 

[dotr]

The girl groomed by that gang was under the age of 16, whereas Leah was a 19 year old adult - imo the idea of grooming is ridiculous.

The gang I was talking about is in this link
Gran accused of raping young child in 'Glasgow paedo ring' found dead at home

Welcome to Ws bluebear15, noting that i am just providing links and not my opinion!

 

[Bluebear15]

Welcome to Ws bluebear15, noting that i am just providing links and not my opinion!

Thanks for your welcome... it's very clear what your intention was in posting your links (and those particular bits of the report) .

As I said said previously, to assume something based purely on somebody's ethnicity/race is racist!!

 

[Bluebear15]

Welcome to Ws bluebear15, noting that i am just providing links and not my opinion!

A comment that is very relevant from that home office report that you missed is:-

"Research has found that group-based child sexual exploitation offenders are most commonly white".

Taking this fact, and using the opinions on this thread, presumably we'll be assuming that all white ex boyfriends are groomers!