GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #65

[rescuemom]

Fraud. And probably tax evasion.

SSI as I understand it is financial help from the state not a charge against him

 

[Iona]

"The defendant engaged in a pattern of corrupt activity by as a criminal with her immediate and some extended family members".
Sounds like the perfect opening for a Federal RICO (Racketeering Influenced Corrupt Organizations) case.
Goodbye FWF.


Also, Which court reporter didn't show up?
Prosecution or Defense?

Yes, it does… considering the state is security ( for everyone now, it would seem): <modsnip>

 

[rescuemom]

She's not sorry or remorseful.



I interpret it differently every time I listen to it or read the transcript. In the end, AC decided to drop the Agg Murder charges against Angela, so I can only assume that between Jake and Angela, she determined AC wasn't along for the murders. I do still wonder about whether Angela stayed at home the whole time the men were on their killing spree.

I don't think AC allowed Angela to hear Jake's proffer before telling her own story, so if Jake said Angela didn't ride along for the murders, it would have matched Angela saying the same. I wonder how many of their stories will match up?

I'll take my Jambalaya with chicken and gator, hold the snake. With a side of poke salet.

So, do we think AC would go so far as to be as vague as possible because of the 2 remaining W4? I'm going to throw something out here, JMO.... could it be that AW was in a separate vehicle at each scene or just one or two... and wasn't present for the murders but came inside after just long enough to see what her boys had done?? So technically she didn't shoot anyone but we'll find out she wasn't home and maybe had SW and GW3's boy in the car with her... doped up on Benadryl maybe??? Are they picking the fly poop out of the pepper here??? If any of AW statement is false her deal goes out the window, right? It would not surprise me one bit if she is still lying and it would not surprise me one bit if the remaining 2 stories don't match up, JMO

 

[KYboy]

SSI as I understand it is financial help from the state not a charge against him

SSI is Federal assistance - not from the state. It is for low income people who basically do not qualify for Social Security. Social Security is based on earned income, but if you don't file tax returns you have no earned income to base SS on.

 

[rescuemom]

It looks to me that the Wagners are receiving serious credible threats against them because they are apparently arriving to and from court with higher security details, plus, the Dockets for all 3 lists Warrants for their removal from jail suggesting tighter security.

Angela left court with Deputies in bullet proof vests and she was escorted into a white van surrounded by other white vans. This suggests to me a convoy. A convoy is when the defendant is transported in one van sandwiched in between 2 other vans. All the vans look the same.

George came in and out of court with Deputies wearing bullet proof vests and security ear pieces.

Normally the Wagners are escorted to and from the Courthouse by Sheriff's Deputies wearing regular uniforms and driving a regular Sheriff's car and there is no convoy of sheriff's cars.

I predict that, if Billy comes to court today, that he will have the same heightened security as seen with his son and wife.

So if I'm right then why the threats to the Wagner's now? What is different?

I'll answer that question. There is a huge difference now and it doesn't bode well for the Wagners when they go to prison.

Jake confessed and there is no more presumed innocence. No "Cartel" no
"drug gang" no "disgruntled business partners" no "other families out for revenge" etc... No one else at all, just the Wagners.

Now that this truth has seeped in alot of people - who held their judgement - are hopping mad! Mob justice so to speak. This is why I believe there are threats on their lives coming in.

Could be written and called-in threats to both the Courthouse and the jails. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wagners themselves get letters sent to them personally with threats made.

The jury has spoken so to speak.

...2 Cents...

Yes, that's correct. FW and the mysterious John Doe both mentioned in count 22, engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. But, I wonder, is John Doe an extended family member????

it isn't hard to assume if FW needed something done for some reason, BW was there to do it.

 

[Cool Cats]

So, do we think AC would go so far as to be as vague as possible because of the 2 remaining W4? I'm going to throw something out here, JMO.... could it be that AW was in a separate vehicle at each scene or just one or two... and wasn't present for the murders but came inside after just long enough to see what her boys had done?? So technically she didn't shoot anyone but we'll find out she wasn't home and maybe had SW and GW3's boy in the car with her... doped up on Benadryl maybe??? Are they picking the fly poop out of the pepper here??? If any of AW statement is false her deal goes out the window, right? It would not surprise me one bit if she is still lying and it would not surprise me one bit if the remaining 2 stories don't match up, JMO

The reason they didn't give the Wagners Jake's Proffer was so it wouldn't influence any other Wagner who wanted to do a plea and because they planned to compare what a Wagner would say to what Jake said and it weeds out lies.

What Angela said confirmed what Jake said so Angela wouldn't have gotton a deal if her story was different from Jake's.

According to Jake and Angela and Canepa, Angela was home not drugging up the kids hauling them around in the car, not doing some body dragging at Chris's etc...

Not you rescue mom but there are always going to be people who want to believe Angela was at the homicide scenes that night and they want to believe it so they will, no matter what Canepa said.

 

[rescuemom]

Canepa has said the families approve the plea deals.

The families are nicer than me. They all deserve LWOP. They all should be charged with 8 muders.

I agree...but if it helps the families not to have years and years of motions, hearings where there is postponement after postponement and trials years in the future, then I don't blame them one bit. They need to have some peace. I just hope the matriarch in the W family is connected somehow to where the victim's families can get some relief monetarily from her.

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree...but if it helps the families not to have years and years of motions, hearings where there is postponement after postponement and trials years in the future, then I don't blame them one bit. They need to have some peace. I just hope the matriarch in the W family is connected somehow to where the victim's families can get some relief monetarily from her.

She inherited her dad's house so that could be sold. There still will be civil trials after the criminal trials. Basically this Case will never end.

 

[IType]

John Doe is normally used in indictments and it is used to get around the statute of limitations. If someone is arrested for a crime - years after the crime - they become the John Doe, or you could say their name replaces the John Doe.

Say some years from now someone is arrested for helping to hide Wagner evidence after the fact.

The statute of limitations could technically be up for that specific crime but because John Doe was named in the indictment it covers the person arrested and voids the statute of limitations.

Very common standard procedure to add in John Does.


‘John Doe’ indictment leads to conviction in 18-year-old rape case

Killing Time: The Application of John Doe Indictments to Keep Cases Warm | Office of Justice Programs

I understand your point.

From my original post to BettyP, which led to the mention of FW and John Doe in count 22, regarding AC's comments at AW's hearing on Friday: I did find this comment interesting: "The defendant engaged in a pattern of corrupt activity by as a criminal with her immediate and some extended family members".

I had noted it says extended family members, plural. AW's husband and sons are her immediate family members. Who are the extended family members? FW could be one (if so, I think charges will be refiled), but what others? Your thoughts?

 

[rescuemom]

The reason they didn't give the Wagners Jake's Proffer was so it wouldn't influence any other Wagner who wanted to do a plea and because they planned to compare what a Wagner would say to what Jake said and it weeds out lies.

What Angela said confirmed what Jake said so Angela wouldn't have gotton a deal if her story was different from Jake's.

According to Jake and Angela and Canepa, Angela was home not drugging up the kids hauling them around in the car, not doing some body dragging at Chris's etc...

Not you rescue mom but there are always going to be people who want to believe Angela was at the homicide scenes that night and they want to believe it so they will, no matter what Canepa said.

Well, as my mind starts to revisit some of this..been on this case from day 1...it is really hard to believe AW wasn't there for the deed as controlling and manipulative as she is but if that's what has been said I can and will accept that I bet it just gripped her butt that she wasn't there!

 

[IType]

LOL, I updated this post with some quotes from AC's statement and analysis, but it went "poof".

I suggest reading the parts where AC says the defendant's (Angela's) three co-defendants went into the Rhoden homes and committed the trespassing and murders. She's saying Jake, George and Billy committed the murders, but AC knew what they were doing before they left.

There's another part of the statement where AC states that Angela met with them (at the church?) afterwards where they discussed what happened.

Look for those parts and it will help you understand it better. JMO, AC is speaking ambiguously. Her comments are somewhat vague in some areas, so it's easy to misinterpret. IANAL, but it's partly because AC is trying to avoid revealing too much information about the evidence before George and Billy make their decisions.

JMO

ETA: Note AC never specifically states where Angela was when the other 3 Wagners left to commit the murders as planned. Maybe that's intentional. ICBW, let me know if you find some mention by AC about where Angela was when the other 3 left to commit the murders.

I'm very interested to know if she said AC met them at the church later after the murders were committed.

She doesn't mention anything about the church. AC just stumbled over her words a little bit. I listened to her comments and am able to fill in the inaudible spots in Tiff's transcription. Will put that in another post.

 

[IType]

I listened to Tiff's transcription of AC's comments at AW's confession hearing on 9/10/2021. I used the Law & Crime recording on YouTube posted previously by CO. Below are my additions (in red) to the inaudible spots:

Paragraph 1:

As noted, the information he provided also implicated each of his co-defendants as also being complicit in all of the offenses, again as was consistent with our evidence.

Paragraph 2:

More recently your honor we sat down with the defendant present in court today, AW, as she had indicated she would also like to do a proffer by providing us information about she and the others involved in the (AC just stumbled over her word here) crimes.

Paragraph 7:

She was aware the night they walked out the door on April 21, 2021 of where they were going and what they were going to do and she was present when they returned home the next morning having completed the crimes.

Paragraph 12:

The defendant engaged in a pattern of corrupt activity by acting as a part of a criminal enterprise with the members of her immediate and some extended family members, while acting individually or while the aiding and abetting of the other members of this criminal enterprise in committing the offenses of aggravated murder, aggravated burglary and other offenses contained in the indictment.

 

[Tiff23fr]

I listened to Tiff's transcription of AC's comments at AW's confession hearing on 9/10/2021. I used the Law & Crime recording on YouTube posted previously by CO. Below are my additions (in red) to the inaudible spots:

Paragraph 1:

As noted, the information he provided also implicated each of his co-defendants as also being complicit in all of the offenses, again as was consistent with our evidence.

Paragraph 2:

More recently your honor we sat down with the defendant present in court today, AW, as she had indicated she would also like to do a proffer by providing us information about she and the others involved in the (AC just stumbled over her word here) crimes.

Paragraph 7:

She was aware the night they walked out the door on April 21, 2021 of where they were going and what they were going to do and she was present when they returned home the next morning having completed the crimes.

Paragraph 12:

The defendant engaged in a pattern of corrupt activity by acting as a part of a criminal enterprise with the members of her immediate and some extended family members, while acting individually or while the aiding and abetting of the other members of this criminal enterprise in committing the offenses of aggravated murder, aggravated burglary and other offenses contained in the indictment.

Thank you

 

[IType]

A couple of key points from Tiff's transcription of AC's comments that--at least in my mind--clearly indicate final answers to a couple of lingering questions many of us have:

1. Was custody the only motive, or was drugs/some other motive involved:

It was only custody, as copied from Tiff's info: They hacked into FB accounts of these two individuals allowing them access to information that ultimately became the motive for these crimes.

My comment: No mention of any other motive, doesn't say something along the lines of "one of the motives", etc. AC said this is the motive, period. JMO

2. Did AW enter any of the crime scenes or personally kill any of the victims:

No, as copied from Tiffs info: The defendants three co-defendants trespassed into each of the four residents where the victims were found with the intent to kill them.

My comment: No, AW was not present in any of the crime scenes in any capacity. AC only says AW's three co-defendants (BW, GW, JW) went into the residences. JMO

 

[IType]

Thank you

I posted the amendments in the media and timeline thread.

 

[IType]

A few days ago, State's Supplemental Discovery (filed 9/10/21) for GW4 was posted. I didn't have a chance to read it and now am having trouble finding it. Does anyone recall if that was posted in this thread or in the previous thread?

 

[Piffcat]

She's not sorry or remorseful.



I interpret it differently every time I listen to it or read the transcript. In the end, AC decided to drop the Agg Murder charges against Angela, so I can only assume that between Jake and Angela, she determined AC wasn't along for the murders. I do still wonder about whether Angela stayed at home the whole time the men were on their killing spree.

I don't think AC allowed Angela to hear Jake's proffer before telling her own story, so if Jake said Angela didn't ride along for the murders, it would have matched Angela saying the same. I wonder how many of their stories will match up?

I'll take my Jambalaya with chicken and gator, hold the snake. With a side of poke salet.

It's too bad the state didn't negotiate with ang in bad faith. I would have liked to see angs state corroborating jakes proffer, and then drop hammer on ang- either withdrawing tge deal or judge refusing the plea. This leniency because of her knowledge of heinous crimes she facilitated is *advertiser censored* backwards. Truly believe.ang jake and their lawyers ran game on tge "justice" system. This was pre arranged strategy that began with ang as guardian in case of jakes death at scene. These horrible people only understand force. There is no remorse only bargaining. How could tge judge even accept a plea in an octuple murder with women and children

 

[FonescaFan]

That is the one OB. Thank you. I swear you are the greatest with names. Thats why I depend on you so much to have all the answers. They still haven't arrested anyone in that although they suspected someone for a while.

JMO

Too many coincidences with the Rhoden murders. Scary.

 

[Cool Cats]

Well, as my mind starts to revisit some of this..been on this case from day 1...it is really hard to believe AW wasn't there for the deed as controlling and manipulative as she is but if that's what has been said I can and will accept that I bet it just gripped her butt that she wasn't there!

"gripped her butt"
That she got arrested when she wasn't even there.

Remember, they didn't think everyone would be arrested and they may have been surprised that all 4 were!

I think she liked sitting back letting them do it and listening to them talk about what they did. Canepa said they told her about it when they got back.

She wanted custody, they were doing her bidding. She could sit back and watch more movies to try to justify her position and have popcorn while waiting for the male Chapter of the Wagner Crime Family to return with their "good news" for her.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It looks to me that the Wagners are receiving serious credible threats against them because they are apparently arriving to and from court with higher security details, plus, the Dockets for all 3 lists Warrants for their removal from jail suggesting tighter security.

Angela left court with Deputies in bullet proof vests and she was escorted into a white van surrounded by other white vans. This suggests to me a convoy. A convoy is when the defendant is transported in one van sandwiched in between 2 other vans. All the vans look the same.

George came in and out of court with Deputies wearing bullet proof vests and security ear pieces.

Normally the Wagners are escorted to and from the Courthouse by Sheriff's Deputies wearing regular uniforms and driving a regular Sheriff's car and there is no convoy of sheriff's cars.

I predict that, if Billy comes to court today, that he will have the same heightened security as seen with his son and wife.

So if I'm right then why the threats to the Wagner's now? What is different?

I'll answer that question. There is a huge difference now and it doesn't bode well for the Wagners when they go to prison.

Jake confessed and there is no more presumed innocence. No "Cartel" no
"drug gang" no "disgruntled business partners" no "other families out for revenge" etc... No one else at all, just the Wagners.

Now that this truth has seeped in alot of people - who held their judgement - are hopping mad! Mob justice so to speak. This is why I believe there are threats on their lives coming in.

Could be written and called-in threats to both the Courthouse and the jails. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wagners themselves get letters sent to them personally with threats made.

The jury has spoken so to speak.

...2 Cents...

BBM

I think it is because she ratted out a lot of big Boss Hoggs and maybe some drug cartels like those in Mexico (the W's made regular runs down to TX) and the Cornbread Mafia that operates in northern KY and southern Ohio and I am including her MIL that could be out for some "creek justice" as RSD calls it. And that would extend to Jake, Billy and George. Perhaps as a warning for them to keep their mouth shut and take their LWOP like good little boys.

Then there are those recorded conversations at Freds house about whoever was left breaking the others out of jail and threats on LE's lives. If I remember correctly AC took those conversations very seriously. As of yet we don't know who the Wagner family are connected to. I am sure that (according to her words not mine) Fred is relying on Jesus to get her through this but while she is praying she could also have a cell phone in her hand making a few calls to some more earthly people to help get her through all this.

JMO