GUILTY CA - Susan Berman, 55, fatally shot, Los Angeles, 23 Dec 2000

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dizzychick said:
A 22 is not as loud as other pistols so that was another reason he bought that gun for this job. IMO it was no accident he wound up renting a room next to Morris. I think that PI in Texas had it right, Black and his brother Harry had something to do with Kathie's disappearance. They may have buried it for Durst and it was suggested they go that far back to when the 2 brothers worked on the Durst Organic Farm after WW2. I think these old guys were clean-up men for Berman's father back in the day. Durst killed Morris cause he was the only other witness to Kathie's death.
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there was a Durst Organic Farm , back in those days?

I haven't found the one they owned back them but did find this:

Who are the Dursts? Shining a light on the New York real estate kingpins
Soft-spoken and courtly, Douglas Durst takes a special interest in environmental projects and owns one of the largest organic farms in New York State.
 
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dizzychick said:
A 22 is not as loud as other pistols so that was another reason he bought that gun for this job. IMO it was no accident he wound up renting a room next to Morris. I think that PI in Texas had it right, Black and his brother Harry had something to do with Kathie's disappearance. They may have buried it for Durst and it was suggested they go that far back to when the 2 brothers worked on the Durst Organic Farm after WW2. I think these old guys were clean-up men for Berman's father back in the day. Durst killed Morris cause he was the only other witness to Kathie's death.
Click to expand...
there was a Durst Organic Farm , back in those days?

Havent found as reference yet to the Organic farms from back then, but did find this:

"Soft-spoken and courtly, Douglas Durst takes a special interest in environmental projects and owns one of the largest organic farms in New York State."

Douglas, who was promoted by his father over his troubled older brother, 71, is considered a savvy operator. Unlike his outspoken father, though, Douglas, 70, eschews the limelight.


Who are the Dursts? Shining a light on the New York real estate kingpins
 
katydid23 said:
there was a Durst Organic Farm , back in those days?

Havent found as reference yet to the Organic farms from back then, but did find this:

"Soft-spoken and courtly, Douglas Durst takes a special interest in environmental projects and owns one of the largest organic farms in New York State."

Douglas, who was promoted by his father over his troubled older brother, 71, is considered a savvy operator. Unlike his outspoken father, though, Douglas, 70, eschews the limelight.


Who are the Dursts? Shining a light on the New York real estate kingpins
Click to expand...
McEnroe Farm
In 1987, Durst purchased a piece of land from Ray McEnroe, the owner of an organic farm in Dutchess County, New York, some 100 miles north of Manhattan. He purchased the land to dispose of his horses' manure in an environmentally friendly way.Durst later partnered with McEnroe, and now the farm is 500 acres, and among the top 25% of organic farms in the United States.
 
katydid23 said:
McEnroe Farm
In 1987, Durst purchased a piece of land from Ray McEnroe, the owner of an organic farm in Dutchess County, New York, some 100 miles north of Manhattan. He purchased the land to dispose of his horses' manure in an environmentally friendly way.Durst later partnered with McEnroe, and now the farm is 500 acres, and among the top 25% of organic farms in the United States.
Click to expand...

There is a thread on Durst in the Lomg Island Serial thread there are several links in there. Page 2 is a good one, I'm not sure if they still work. Hope this helps.
 
dizzychick said:
A 22 is not as loud as other pistols so that was another reason he bought that gun for this job. IMO it was no accident he wound up renting a room next to Morris. I think that PI in Texas had it right, Black and his brother Harry had something to do with Kathie's disappearance. They may have buried it for Durst and it was suggested they go that far back to when the 2 brothers worked on the Durst Organic Farm after WW2. I think these old guys were clean-up men for Berman's father back in the day. Durst killed Morris cause he was the only other witness to Kathie's death.
Click to expand...
===================================
Yes, sounds 100 percent. So you are saying that Morris (really Mordechai, believe it ) Black (Schwarz) originally worked for Durst's farther ? Man this is complex. I 'd bet money that the LLord there was Jewish too - in the boarding house place.

The Wiki ##story is that Durst says he had the pistol in a secret place and Morris got hold of it - sounds like hog wash.

More likely Durst came at Morris with the pistol and Morris grabbed it in fear for his life but Durst , being stronger managed to get it and kill him .

You are correct about a .22 being quiet and good for such stuff (and with Morris quite frail, one shot through the eye would likely put him out for the Rose garden - or in this case Galveston bay.) . That's how he got away with it in a built up environment . Pity bout all those phone problems - if only... he might have been able to save his BFF , Morechai Black. Robbo the Bowman serpently scrwd up getting involved with the second documentary with HBO.

## Presumably that reflects the trial record, not the truth.

There is a restraining order on Robbo's finances in NY at the moment I hear... the two families but Esp Kathie's are dead scared that Robbo will kark it any time soon and the money may be willed to the family and there will be no chance they can make a civil action against Robbo's estate and get a chunk of it as a penalty for wrongful death as per the OJ Simpson case** . The Dursts might do the right thing and then again they might not (neither they nor the Kushners got to where they are by excessive charity) .

BTW a .22 magnum out of a 125mm barrel has about the same muzzle energy as a 38 slug out of snub nosed revolver at 280 odd mtrs/s. Both are light on for social work (defensive stuff) but the .22 Magnum is no joke. There are no semi auto pistols I know that take it, only revolvers.

** I am betting the Markel family in Canada has the same thing planned for the Adelsons too.

Kidon Gadol (which is hanging over Wendi and CJ Adelson just now )
 
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Friday, Sept. 17th:
*Trial continues (Day 60)-VERDICT WATCH! (@ 1:30pm PT) – CA – Susan Berman (55) (Dec. 24, 2000, Beverly Hills) – *Robert Alan Durst (57 @ time of crime/72/now 78) arrested (3/14/15) extradited (11/1/16 from Indiana prison to Calif.) & charged with 1st degree murder. Plead not guilty. $4M Bond.
Was serving a 7 year federal prison term for illegal possession of a revolver at the time of his New Orleans’ arrest.
Trial began on 2/11/20 with pretrial motions & jury selection started on 2/19/20. Trial started on 3/4/20. Jury: 8 women & 4 men. 11 alternates. (1 alternate excused on 5/18/21) Now 10 alternates. (1 juror (#3) excused for medical reasons on 7/8/21). Now 9 alternates. Another juror excused (8/19/21) due to scheduling. Now 8 alternates. (Trial expected to last 5 months). Trial stopped 3/16/20 due COVID-19 & will restart on 7/27/20 & retrial was to restart on 4/12/21 continued to 5/17/21 continued to 5/18/21. No court on Fridays.
State rested their case on Tuesday (8/3/21). Defense has 2, possibly 3 witnesses (one is the defendant) & thinks 2 weeks for their case & will begin their case on 8/3/21 afternoon. Judge Windham denies the defense motion for mistrial based on their client's health & inability to testify on 8/2/21. Judge denies defense motion for judgment of acquittal. 9/14/21: Jurors deliberated for 3 hours. 9/15/21: Jurors deliberated for 2 ½ hours. Total deliberations: 5 ½ hours.
Upcoming schedule: DARK on Thursday, 9/16 (if still going) for Yom Kippur.
Jury Selection from 2/19/20 thru 3/3/20 (Days 1-8) & Trial Days 1-6 (3/4/20 thru 3/12/20) & Court info from 3/16/20 thru 5/12/21 & Trial Days 1-58 (5/18/21 thru 9/14/21) reference post #740 here:
https://www.webs+sleuths.com/forums...los-angeles-23-dec-2000-arrest.324950/page-37
9/15/21 Wednesday, Trial Day 59: Jury deliberations won't resume until 1:30pm due to a scheduling conflict. Jury Note: They want calendar & timeline slides prepared by prosecutor Balian in his closing. Judge is denying the request. (Not in evidence, just used during closings). Jury has gone home after approx. 2 1/2 hours of deliberations today. NO COURT TOMORROW due to Jewish holiday. They will be back FRIDAY, 9/17/21 but not until 1:30pm.
 
KidonGadol said:
===================================
Yes, sounds 100 percent. So you are saying that Morris (really Mordechai, believe it ) Black (Schwarz) originally worked for Durst's farther ? Man this is complex. I 'd bet money that the LLord there was Jewish too - in the boarding house place.

The Wiki ##story is that Durst says he had the pistol in a secret place and Morris got hold of it - sounds like hog wash.

More likely Durst came at Morris with the pistol and Morris grabbed it in fear for his life but Durst , being stronger managed to get it and kill him .

You are correct about a .22 being quiet and good for such stuff (and with Morris quite frail, one shot through the eye would likely put him out for the Rose garden - or in this case Galveston bay.) . That's how he got away with it in a built up environment . Pity bout all those phone problems - if only... he might have been able to save his BFF , Morechai Black. Robbo the Bowman serpently scrwd up getting involved with the second documentary with HBO.

## Presumably that reflects the trial record, not the truth.

There is a restraining order on Robbo's finances in NY at the moment I hear... the two families but Esp Kathie's are dead scared that Robbo will kark it any time soon and the money may be willed to the family and there will be no chance they can make a civil action against Robbo's estate and get a chunk of it as a penalty for wrongful death as per the OJ Simpson case** . The Dursts might do the right thing and then again they might not (neither they nor the Kushners got to where they are by excessive charity) .

BTW a .22 magnum out of a 125mm barrel has about the same muzzle energy as a 38 slug out of snub nosed revolver at 280 odd mtrs/s. Both are light on for social work (defensive stuff) but the .22 Magnum is no joke. There are no semi auto pistols I know that take it, only revolvers.

** I am betting the Markel family in Canada has the same thing planned for the Adelsons too.

Kidon Gadol (which is hanging over Wendi and CJ Adelson just now )
Click to expand...

what is the purpose of these comments about people being Jewish? It’s v common around NYC due to historical immigration patterns so not a sign of past relationships etc if that’s what you’re thinking. Mordecai Schwartz … is this a name that comes up in the Durst past? And the landlord (full name Rene Klaus Dillman IIRC), what is your thinking about his involvement?

As to a possible Durst-Black connection, it’s always stuck in my head that they both moved into the Ave K bldg at the same time / by answering the same ad. Not evidence of anything, I know… just… odd.

Beyond that there are allegations that Morris’s career was mob brute or likewise, and the claim that he was in NYC for a couple of days around the time of Kathie’s disappearance.

But IMO the most ??? thing about the relationship with Morris is that Bob describes an intimate daily friendship (the library, target shooting every other day, constant TV together) … while no one outside their apt bldg claims to ever have seen them together.

I’ve always assumed Morris was shot in the back of the head. Bowsaw Bob went back for the head way before he made up his dumb story about a tragic accidental/self-defense shooting … so IMO he knew that whatever info the head revealed damned him. There aren’t too many injuries that are inexplicable as anything but murder, but a shot to the back of the head would be one of them.
 
taylorss said:
what is the purpose of these comments about people being Jewish? It’s v common around NYC due to historical immigration patterns so not a sign of past relationships etc if that’s what you’re thinking. Mordecai Schwartz … is this a name that comes up in the Durst past? And the landlord (full name Rene Klaus Dillman IIRC), what is your thinking about his involvement?

As to a possible Durst-Black connection, it’s always stuck in my head that they both moved into the Ave K bldg at the same time / by answering the same ad. Not evidence of anything, I know… just… odd.

Beyond that there are allegations that Morris’s career was mob brute or likewise, and the claim that he was in NYC for a couple of days around the time of Kathie’s disappearance.

But IMO the most ??? thing about the relationship with Morris is that Bob describes an intimate daily friendship (the library, target shooting every other day, constant TV together) … while no one outside their apt bldg claims to ever have seen them together.

I’ve always assumed Morris was shot in the back of the head. Bowsaw Bob went back for the head way before he made up his dumb story about a tragic accidental/self-defense shooting … so IMO he knew that whatever info the head revealed damned him. There aren’t too many injuries that are inexplicable as anything but murder, but a shot to the back of the head would be one of them.
Click to expand...


I am basing my comment on - "IMO it was no accident he wound up renting a room next to Morris. " See previous posts.

I can see Old man Durst granting worker Morris some sort of family pension or some sort if he had been a long term J worker for the family. (since you don't like the full J word). Ie a form of Tsadekah. Now if that is true Bob boy could check back with the family accountant where the cheques are being sent to. How otherwise is he going to track down Morris Black, so long gone from NYC ?

====================================================

"I’ve always assumed Morris was shot in the back of the head."

Commentary -
Bob alleges in the recent trial that MB was shot in the face to one side of the nose. (That will surely be the original trial testimony) - that's necessary as they were locked in mortal combat over the gun. .. all Durst's story as the only other witness is dead and the Head is conveniently sawn off and buried somewhere, never to be found.

The weird thing is that Durst chucked the gun out in the rubbish where the police would find it - but there's no risk - there are no projectiles to match - all in the skull. I bet he could have gripped poor old Morrie's cold dead hand around the pistol a couple of times to ensure the prints were there - so you see it is in fact an advantage for the weapon to be found . Now if there was a struggle and the gun discharged close to Morry's head , as per RD 's fable there would be powder blast to the face - again no skull. How very convenient.

"Bob describes an intimate daily friendship (the library, target shooting every other day, constant TV together) … while no one outside their apt bldg claims to ever have seen them together. "

Commentary - Well that is all very convenient and it shows how Shook up poor Rob must have been after the struggle and the running around doing the 911 thing or trying to (he says) that old Morrie or Mordechai Black had bled out on the floor (those phone companies have a lot to answer for ) - his BFF and target shooting mate- an American Tragedy.

Anyways in 6-7 hrs or so, we will either have a mistrial or a guilty verdict is my guess on the Berman case.
 
KidonGadol said:
I am basing my comment on - "IMO it was no accident he wound up renting a room next to Morris. " See previous posts.

I can see Old man Durst granting worker Morris some sort of family pension or some sort if he had been a long term J worker for the family. (since you don't like the full J word). Ie a form of Tsadekah. Now if that is true Bob boy could check back with the family accountant where the cheques are being sent to. How otherwise is he going to track down Morris Black, so long gone from NYC ?

====================================================

"I’ve always assumed Morris was shot in the back of the head."

Commentary -
Bob alleges in the recent trial that MB was shot in the face to one side of the nose. (That will surely be the original trial testimony) - that's necessary as they were locked in mortal combat over the gun. .. all Durst's story as the only other witness is dead and the Head is conveniently sawn off and buried somewhere, never to be found.

The weird thing is that Durst chucked the gun out in the rubbish where the police would find it - but there's no risk - there are no projectiles to match - all in the skull. I bet he could have gripped poor old Morrie's cold dead hand around the pistol a couple of times to ensure the prints were there - so you see it is in fact an advantage for the weapon to be found . Now if there was a struggle and the gun discharged close to Morry's head , as per RD 's fable there would be powder blast to the face - again no skull. How very convenient.

"Bob describes an intimate daily friendship (the library, target shooting every other day, constant TV together) … while no one outside their apt bldg claims to ever have seen them together. "

Commentary - Well that is all very convenient and it shows how Shook up poor Rob must have been after the struggle and the running around doing the 911 thing or trying to (he says) that old Morrie or Mordechai Black had bled out on the floor (those phone companies have a lot to answer for ) - his BFF and target shooting mate- an American Tragedy.

Anyways in 6-7 hrs or so, we will either have a mistrial or a guilty verdict is my guess on the Berman case.
Click to expand...

Lol I have no prob with “the J word,” I’m saying around NYC, esp in Durst/Black generation, most people these guys knew were probably Jewish. It wouldn’t lead to any special connection between Black & Durst fam cuz it would’ve been dime a dozen
 
I've just realised that this was up in the previous comments - wrt case timing -

They (Jurors) will be back FRIDAY, 9/17/21 but not until 1:30pm.

This is two hrs away at time of this note - I can only hope they are deliberating from 9 am this morning and we might get some reports of action at 1: 35 pm or so. This case is so weird it is driving me nuts.

General commentary - it is a sad fact that it often takes a podcast or a documentary to get some heat under some of these high profile cold cases and get them moving again. The same applies to "the Teacher's Pet " case in NSW , Australia which is being dragged out now until April of 2022 (Trial date for Chris Dawson). A single journalist was responsible for getting that case re-investigated. Another case where the likely perpetrator has been running around in the sunshine for almost 40 years with no time in jail in that case.

KG.
 
So they’re set to deliberate 4:30-7:30 ET today & that’s it …
 
Durst's Ruger 22/45 was modified for conceiled carry . See the Evidence Ruger semi auto and the standard modern version- photos attached . The fore sight would tend to catch on being pulled out a pocket. Therefore it has been reversed and in the process making it pretty useless for target shooting.

IN the recent trial (Berman) RD was asked if it was the same gun. He said yes but the site looks reversed. I'd say he's been worded up by Chesnoff in that regard . The F sight was reversed at the time it was dumped in the rubbish bin back in Tx by the look of it.

There appears to be a single vertical screw in the foresight which allows it to be reversed. THe main purpose of course is to allow fitting of a second sight if the production one in is damaged.

Halt ! New evidence... call back the jury... retrial... :)) - in fact this relates only to the Black matter. Robert had moved onto bigger calibres I believe before his visit to Susan Berman.

KG
 

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The barrel on the Durst gun looks shorter than the standard "catalog" 22 Ruger. Is that just a different option with the gun?

KidonGadol said:
Durst's Ruger 22/45 was modified for conceiled carry . See the Evidence Ruger semi auto and the standard modern version- photos attached . The fore sight would tend to catch on being pulled out a pocket. Therefore it has been reversed and in the process making it pretty useless for target shooting.

IN the recent trial (Berman) RD was asked if it was the same gun. He said yes but the site looks reversed. I'd say he's been worded up by Chesnoff in that regard . The F sight was reversed at the time it was dumped in the rubbish bin back in Tx by the look of it.

There appears to be a single vertical screw in the foresight which allows it to be reversed. THe main purpose of course is to allow fitting of a second sight if the production one in is damaged.

Halt ! New evidence... call back the jury... retrial... :)) - in fact this relates only to the Black matter. Robert had moved onto bigger calibres I believe before his visit to Susan Berman.

KG
Click to expand...
 
drama_farmer said:
The barrel on the Durst gun looks shorter than the standard "catalog" 22 Ruger. Is that just a different option with the gun?
Click to expand...
The SECOND photo I posted is the Ruger Mark V bull barrel which is current production and appears not to have short barrel options. The one from the trial has some pretty crummy looking grips and a different looking trigger and was probably old even at that time. I don't believe though it was a home modified gun. It is definitely stamped Ruger 22 / 45, so it is not some import knock off. Durst , with his record, would probably not have too many options as far as legally acquiring new hand guns about the time of the Tx shooting of Morrie Black.

Ruger (NH) made different versions over the years with non removable front sights too - that other version looked even more like the Luger profile it was copied from. The whole design was supposed to look a bit like a 9mm Luger but be cheap to build and reliable. It was designed in the early fifties I believe.

The reversing of the front sight was quite significant in a gun that would fit easily in a trouser pocket for concealment and now would not snag on being pulled . Bob the Bowsaw man of course would say someone reversed the front sight after his passed from his possession. That's what he 's hinting at in his evidence.

It is weird how all the lies of the Demise of old Morrie are having to be reworked in a trial that has bug all to do with Morrie Black/Schwartz and was committed (allegedly) on the other side of the country.

Kidon G
 
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