Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #137

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sandy_80 said:
sorry but how would a killer from another state ..find a killing location and predict his victims beforehand and search them on google and also predict that in the future they will visit that bridge ?
this in the sci fi zone
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I can see a killer from another state currently doing this. BUT if he had prior knowledge and experience in his past OR made a few visits to the site in the year or two prior. Predicting his victims? Nah, I believe they were victims of opportunity - wrong place, wrong time. That he would predict they would be there at that time and place, no way. Wrong place, wrong time. In fact, if Abigail and Liberty decided to not be on the bridge that day this may have not occurred on 13 Feb 2017. But maybe someplace else, somewhere else at at a later date.
 
sandy_80 said:
sorry but how would a killer from another state ..find a killing location and predict his victims beforehand and search them on google and also predict that in the future they will visit that bridge ?
this in the sci fi zone
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That would mean he stalked these particular girls.

LE has said they don't think that happened. I'm inclined to agree, but who knows?
 
sandy_80 said:
sorry but how would a killer from another state ..find a killing location and predict his victims beforehand and search them on google and predict the future that they will visit one day ?
this in the sci fi zone
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He was looking for killing locations. In different places and states. His connection to Delphi is probably minuscule, but maybe related to the cemetery. Maybe there is no connection at all. The girls, probably, were chosen at random. Maybe something in the way they looked triggered him. JMO.
 
I wonder said:
Forgive me if this has been discussed as nauseam, but I find this interview with County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby in February 2021 odd, in terms of the highlighted question and response.

That is not the twist, or even one of the twists I expected. I expected the twist to be related to the actual crime itself, not how surprised LE was not to solve this quickly.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet
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“The twist” could not be their inability to solve the case quickly. Because the word was first used in 2017, and at that time no one would have predicted the case being cold in 4+ years.

The way I interpret his words in the interview is, “the twist is, many kids who disappear are found alive, and these girls were found dead”.

(Totally inappropriate use of the word “twist” in such a context, to me it equals uttering “quelle surprise!”, on finding two bodies, and I hope I am misinterpreting Tobe’s explanation).
 
JnRyan said:
I can see a killer from another state currently doing this. BUT if he had prior knowledge and experience in his past OR made a few visits to the site in the year or two prior. Predicting his victims? Nah, I believe they were victims of opportunity - wrong place, wrong time. That he would predict they would be there at that time and place, no way. Wrong place, wrong time. In fact, if Abigail and Liberty decided to not be on the bridge that day this may have not occurred on 13 Feb 2017. But maybe someplace else, somewhere else at at a later date.
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Even once could be enough. Consider this, at a different time of the year Delphi looked different. All these excavations into early settlements presented an opportunity for the perpetrator to snoop around. The second time could be the day of the murders.

2 pm was broad daylight, but maybe, statistically, the most “busy” time of the day on MHB?
 
Charlot123 said:
“The twist” could not be their inability to solve the case quickly. Because the word was first used in 2017, and at that time no one would have predicted the case being cold in 4+ years.

The way I interpret his words in the interview is, “the twist is, many kids who disappear are found alive, and these girls were found dead”.

(Totally inappropriate use of the word “twist” in such a context, to me it equals uttering “quelle surprise!”, on finding two bodies, and I hope I am misinterpreting Tobe’s explanation).
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It's more that people have for years now tried to understand what the twist is. Personally I thought it was specifically related to the murder, murder scene or who they believe BG may be, i.e. in LE.

Finding Libby and Abby dead and not finding their murderer yet isn't a twist. Frankly from where I'm sitting, the reason BG is still out there is because I don't believe LE has done a good job and their tactics are proving entirely unsuccessful.

Obviously I don't know all the details and I'm sure the police are trying, but providing very little information to the public and basically going completely silent, isn't working.

Gabby Petito was found because the public had a decent amount of info, which enabled multiple people to realise they had information that has clearly been of great benefit to the police and FBI.

The police seem to be relying on Tobe's memory finally remembering who BG's voice belongs to, which is absurd.

I don't know the American system, but I think that another more experienced police force need to review this case and see if they have a better strategy. The FBI took over in the Gabby Petito case and the pace increased significantly.

Abbey and Libby were children. They were over the age of 12, but I believe they still fit into the realm of FBI investigations.

The longer BG isn't caught, the less likely he will be caught. Memories fade as does momentum. This man is a dangerous monster and he should be in prison, not sitting at home thinking he's got away with it.
 
Zabble said:
This peaked my interest. A while ago I was looking for comparisons using Google Trends. Essentially you can input several search key words and then it shows you how often it's been searched. You can narrow down the results by geography such as state and city.

What struck me was that in the months leading up to the murder no one really searched "Monon High Bridge". However, I could see that someone googled for "Monon High Bridge" from Chicago, IL. I've attached a screenshot that shows this.

The following is speculation, but I think BG could potentially be from the Chicago area and have searched for suitable sites online, including the "Monon High Bridge".

Edit: I attached a second screenshot from Google Trends where it can be seen that keywords "Abigail Williams", "Libby German", and "Monon High Bridge" were all searched from Chicago in the months leading up to the murder.
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While Google Trends can be useful, especially for looking at broad trends, if you don’t enclose your search terms in quote marks, Google Trends will be searching for “either/or” rather than “and”/“includes all” for the words, and also not taking account of word order.

You need to put quote marks around the search term (like you have done on here, “Monon High Bridge” for example) for Google Trends to show searches for all of the words, rather than some or one of the words, and for it to show searches for those words in order.
 
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sandy_80 said:
sorry but how would a killer from another state ..find a killing location and predict his victims beforehand and search them on google and predict the future that they will visit one day ?
this in the sci fi zone
Click to expand...
There are other SM places, where he could have looked for the girls, based upon their infos on their facebook or whatever. Maybe he is a "sleuther" and a very excellent one.

Btw I want to ask, if the girls had perhaps an account for Monkey app? Did you ever hear of it?
 
I wonder said:
I... but I think that another more experienced police force need to review this case and see if they have a better strategy. The FBI took over in the Gabby Petito case and the pace increased significantly.
....
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The record is pretty clear that the FBI has been significantly involved; and the local LE asked the Georgia state police to review the case and evidence to see if anything has been missed.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...ators-fbi-asked-to-review-libby-abbys-murders

My own opinion only, and my opinion is completely free of any information or special insight, but it appears to me that all of the involved LE agencies have been working very diligently to solve this case. And they've managed to keep relevant details hushed up despite the huge number of LE agents who have been involved in the case. Once again, my own opinion only but I suspect that LE has a good idea of who the killer(s) are and they've been working on proving that. I suspect when an arrest is made, there will be a number of books on the market about this case. Let's just hope the arrest is soon.
 
OK, I haven't found this in a half-hour of web searching, so apologies if this is an old issue. (I did find a link to a FB page but the page was in Japanese.) I was looking at the still photo of BG and wondered: Is he wearing a wristwatch on his right wrist? Or am I seeing something else on that wrist and thinking it is a wristwatch?

I have worn a watch almost every day of my life since LBJ was president, and the only people I've known who wear a watch on their right wrists are left-handed.
 
there is no reasonable reason ( if we are thinking this location was chosen ) for him to search killing locations and come up with this bridge...its far from being an ideal killing location
so I am thinking there must be a personal reason why he went there to kill that day
 
Charlot123 said:
“The twist” could not be their inability to solve the case quickly. Because the word was first used in 2017, and at that time no one would have predicted the case being cold in 4+ years.

The way I interpret his words in the interview is, “the twist is, many kids who disappear are found alive, and these girls were found dead”.

(Totally inappropriate use of the word “twist” in such a context, to me it equals uttering “quelle surprise!”, on finding two bodies, and I hope I am misinterpreting Tobe’s explanation).
Click to expand...


I have always thought the "twist" in this case was:

The perp wanted to physically assault Libby and Abby in a certain way.

Jeans waist high in cold water stopped that from happening...(some body parts tend to shrink in icy water)

Had the perp been able to perform, they would have DNA to catch him.

So had the perp got what he wanted, they would have found him by now.

That is the twist.

...just my thoughts.

I don't think the perp ever wanted to cross the icy water.

It's possible:
Libby, being a swimmer, knew there was a possibility the perp couldn't swim, and she was a good swimmer. She took the chance and took to the water. Libby couldn't swim with her heavy shoes soaked, and her heavy sweats soaked, so she took them off herself to speed up her escape. Abby, having on tight (non cushioned) shoes, and tight (not thick material) jeans, didn't need to shed her clothes (and couldn't in a flash), they weren't weighing her down in the water like Libby's were her. This is why Abby was found fully clothed.

The perp knew Libby's clothes were now out in the open, to be found by any body at any second.

He couldn't clean up her clothes "mess" and manage the two girls too, and his goal (SA) was ruined by the icy cold water.

He had to end the scenario as quickly as possible, and give himself time to run before somebody discovered Libby's clothes.

I think he was at that location since early that morning. fishing or something.

I would check out fishing/hunting licenses at and around that time for anybody in that area with the suspect's description. AND try to find pics of anybody who regularly fished there. He's local and walking among them. moo.
 
WizardQuest said:
I have always thought the "twist" in this case was:

The perp wanted to physically assault Libby and Abby in a certain way.

Jeans waist high in cold water stopped that from happening...(some body parts tend to shrink in icy water)

Had the perp been able to perform, they would have DNA to catch him.

So had the perp got what he wanted, they would have found him by now.

That is the twist.

...just my thoughts.

I don't think the perp ever wanted to cross the icy water.

It's possible:
Libby, being a swimmer, knew there was a possibility the perp couldn't swim, and she was a good swimmer. She took the chance and took to the water. Libby couldn't swim with her heavy shoes soaked, and her heavy sweats soaked, so she took them off herself to speed up her escape. Abby, having on tight (non cushioned) shoes, and tight (not thick material) jeans, didn't need to shed her clothes (and couldn't in a flash), they weren't weighing her down in the water like Libby's were her. This is why Abby was found fully clothed.

The perp knew Libby's clothes were now out in the open, to be found by any body at any second.

He couldn't clean up her clothes "mess" and manage the two girls too, and his goal (SA) was ruined by the icy cold water.

He had to end the scenario as quickly as possible, and give himself time to run before somebody discovered Libby's clothes.

I think he was at that location since early that morning. fishing or something.

I would check out fishing/hunting licenses at and around that time for anybody in that area with the suspect's description. AND try to find pics of anybody who regularly fished there. He's local and walking among them. moo.
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According to posts here, where it is assumed the creek was crossed was no more than knee deep. However there is no guarantee that this was the case. Imo
 
Thelastleg said:
According to posts here, where it is assumed the creek was crossed was no more than knee deep. However there is no guarantee that this was the case. Imo
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I'm new here and don't know how to insert pics yet, but do a Google image search on: searchers water Abby Libby.

look at the pics.

That water is way above those searcher's knees.
 
WizardQuest said:
I'm new here and don't know how to insert pics yet, but do a Google image search on: searchers water Abby Libby.

look at the pics.

That water is way above those searcher's knees.
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Yes, that was up or down stream not sure which way from the shallow area where it is speculated they crossed the creek
 
squish said:
Are we allowed to talk about the geocaching aspect here? It's frowned upon on reddit. I do geocaching and am interested in this angle.
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From Thread # 67, Post # 944 9/23/2017
by SillyBilly (Administrator)

... Websleuths owner, Tricia, disallowed that particular discussion because, unfortunately, some members were being irresponsible in sleuthing members of the geocaching community. That decision still stands.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #67
 
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