AZ AZ - Daniel Robinson, 24, remote job site, Buckeye, 23 Jun 2021

[JJ Ray]

Two questions:
Has anyone seen the full text of Buckeye PD report released last week?

In the course of the ground searches, was the trail walked back 'side to side' from the vehicle discovery site to the job site for any sign of the initial collision location (broken glass etc)?

The road from the well site to the detention basin has been extensively covered but not "shoulder to shoulder". If 11 miles is to be believed and NOT considered driving in circles the shortest direct routes out from the final crash site is in the middle of Tartesso, the front entrance to Tartesso on Sun Valley and the front entrance to Del Webb Festival. Also to remote spots on Salome-Tonapah Road. I did scans of each of these 5 spots and saw nothing damaged that I could find...but I'm not an expert.

 

[mlhenn]

and the 46 starts

I guess I’m just not knowledgeable enough about these things… but for whatever reason I don’t understand the Jeep’s “46 starts” after the initial crash.
Are they saying Daniel (or whomever) restarted the Jeep/turned the key on 46 different times after the vehicle wrecked the 1st time? As in trying to start it or as in actually starting it?? OR Does this mean something different entirely? Again, forgive me of any ignorance with this matter.

 

[o 0]

Two questions:
Has anyone seen the full text of Buckeye PD report released last week?

In the course of the ground searches, was the trail walked back 'side to side' from the vehicle discovery site to the job site for any sign of the initial collision location (broken glass etc)?

i would like to read that report, it says that they released 54pages of unfinished police report... from the link in post #459 there is some information i didn't know about like the conversations with the female in question and the fact that they encountered a mountain lion which explains the high volume of animal trails i mention on post #450

 

[mlhenn]

Everything we know about missing geologist Daniel Robinson

Another question someone may be able to help answer:

So the vehicles GPS/black box actually records “time”?
-from the article:
The first crash was four hours after he went missing, based on the GPS data.

If this is true, would it also have the times of all the other incidents (other crashes, airbag deployment, the 46 starts)?

 

[JJ Ray]

Well after going out and doing some scouting and riding the ridges around the area the jeep was found. Immediately I started asking myself WHY. Two things got my attention right away, one was the lack of trails for any type of riding and the massive amount of animal trails crossing all thru that area.

As I mentioned in post #431 about going west on that road he was last seen, which I'm really interested to know how they where able to see him going that direction... Ok so he went west on that road that kinda lead into a southwestern direction into what looks like an old quarry after passing that electrical facility, its a remote place that not many venture into. The majority of vehicles would not have much trouble driving around those areas however where the jeep was found is an area that would be risky for the majority, you would have to drive up a decently steep hill where it meets the wilder desert area...after climbing up that steep hill you would have to make immediate turns which i have to say there isn't much of a choice for bigger vehicles like his jeep. Sure after going up that steep climb there is a couple of short driveable trails that do not go that far, however where the jeep was found its in an area that you would be basically making your own trail. I was in a dirt bike type motorcycle, drove all over that area on the top of those ravines and it was challenging enough to make me wonder WHY.

Why would he risk messing up his nice looking jeep? At a minimum you would scratch up your paint job and if you're not equip with decent tires you can easily get stuck or get a flat tire.

The area the jeep was found is not a place where you would venture out on your own without knowing that area well AT ALL.

Putting myself in that situation...
Lets say he did go up into that area and simply rolled his jeep, no signs of blood or other bodily fluids(it did rain a lot before the jeep was found) that show he was critically injured could of bumped his head maybe even knocked unconscious, inevitable waking up getting out the vehicle...maybe he couldn't find his phone and decided to abandon the jeep and look for help.

This is what i ask myself..
Why or How could a young geologist not recognize his surroundings, climb up the ravine to figure out where the dirt road or that electrical facility was located knowing that is the for sure way of getting out? I was able to see parts of the circle(old quarry)dirt road and that facility most of the time being up there, its about half a mile or less to that dirt road. You might say his head injury could of hindered him from thinking straight, yes good possibility but I personally from experience highly doubt it judging by the height of the fall into the ravine and the amount of damage done by the roll. Does not look like it was a violent roll over. Again it could be possible.

OK so he bumped his head does not know what he is doing gets out and starts walking...you are either going to climb back up that ravine or you will follow that ravine further down that leads to Wagner wash and or into the Hassayampa river both pretty dry ATM but could of been flooded from the amounts of rain that we got during that time. What concerns me if he did go further down that ravine is the high volume of animal trails, I seen coyote, snake, and some type of goat prints around the area but these trails are not from any of these animals. These animal trails are pretty bold looking and frequently traveled, In my back yard my dogs have similar paths that they travel back and forth on.

I still have lots to read into what we know so far but to me the location of the roll over is highly suspicious. From going thru the fence on Sun Valley Pkwy I road and walked around 14miles in 5hours.

I took pictures of the hill climb into the location where the jeep was found, animal trails and a look out further down the ravine that leads to the hassayampa river. I also have video of the area.





couldnt upload the pictures on this forum. please let me know if i missed anything

Welcome!!!
(You are not "Will" are you? I met a Will on Friday out there)

Anyway, a couple of things...the wreck was not a "rollover". It rolled onto its passenger side. This from McGrath the PI.

The trails you see up from the old quarry (actually now slated as a detention basin for the residential project) is from the volunteer searchers traffic on July 24, 2021. This was the first search after the vehicle was located earlier in the week. I personally walked up the ridge and about 400 yds. west. There were only one or two tracks along the ridge. I could barely see the track that you see now made by all the people later that morning. Daniel (or whomever) was basicly driving over raw desert.

His Renegade looks to me like a Trailhawk (distinct red tow hooks) which is a 4x4. However, the tires as you mention may or may not be off-road and I know they really can't get much clearance added to those vehicles.

Your questions and issues are spot on. Please read entire thread as your questions about weather, security cameras, search efforts, etc. are all discussed.

Searchfordaniel.org has the sector map of efforts to date and search announcements.
Again, welcome to WS.

 

[o 0]

Everything we know about missing geologist Daniel Robinson

Another question someone may be able to help answer:

So the vehicles GPS/black box actually records “time”?
-from the article:
The first crash was four hours after he went missing, based on the GPS data.

If this is true, would it also have the times of all the other incidents (other crashes, airbag deployment, the 46 starts)?

would be great to get clear report about that data

 

[JJ Ray]

Everything we know about missing geologist Daniel Robinson

Another question someone may be able to help answer:

So the vehicles GPS/black box actually records “time”?
-from the article:
The first crash was four hours after he went missing, based on the GPS data.

If this is true, would it also have the times of all the other incidents (other crashes, airbag deployment, the 46 starts)?

and @o 0
It does not, EDRs don't record date and time as of 2017. The 4 hours was determined by Buckeye PD and they and McGrath reference a connection between Daniels phone and the cars entertainment system. Channel 12 News interview with Jeff McGrath Sept. ???

Which now spurs a question...how would outsiders know how to open Daniel's phone to (assumedly stream music cbut could be whatever) to the entertainment system?

 

[JJ Ray]

Two questions:
Has anyone seen the full text of Buckeye PD report released last week?

In the course of the ground searches, was the trail walked back 'side to side' from the vehicle discovery site to the job site for any sign of the initial collision location (broken glass etc)?

Been trying to find a link by ABC 15 but not successful. I have submitteed a public information request as a private citizen.

 

[JJ Ray]

i would like to read that report, it says that they released 54pages of unfinished police report... from the link in post #459 there is some information i didn't know about like the conversations with the female in question and the fact that they encountered a mountain lion which explains the high volume of animal trails i mention on post #450

Oh yeah, the mountain lion den is about a mile to the west at the base of the hill you can see on the west side of the Hassayampa. It has been investigated and cleared.

 

[JJ Ray]

GGE (gotta go eat)!!!!

 

[o 0]

Welcome!!!
(You are not "Will" are you? I met a Will on Friday out there)

Anyway, a couple of things...the wreck was not a "rollover". It rolled onto its passenger side. This from McGrath the PI.

The trails you see up from the old quarry (actually now slated as a detention basin for the residential project) is from the volunteer searchers traffic on July 24, 2021. This was the first search after the vehicle was located earlier in the week. I personally walked up the ridge and about 400 yds. west. There were only one or two tracks along the ridge. I could barely see the track that you see now made by all the people later that morning. Daniel (or whomever) was basicly driving over raw desert.

His Renegade looks to me like a Trailhawk (distinct red tow hooks) which is a 4x4. However, the tires as you mention may or may not be off-road and I know they really can't get much clearance added to those vehicles.

Your questions and issues are spot on. Please read entire thread as your questions about weather, security cameras, search efforts, etc. are all discussed.

Searchfordaniel.org has the sector map of efforts to date and search announcements.
Again, welcome to WS.

Hello and Thank you, regarding the trails that i believe are from roaming animals...trails don't get so bold in that short amount of time unless you have a LOT of people going thru plus the directions obstacles do not add up to human trails...i am no pro just from my experience in the outdoors. ill add some more pictures of those trails.

in this picture you can see the trails i am talking about and on the top right of the picture there is a spot where vehicles have been going thru recently.
another of that connecting trail heading down a ravine...if you could zoom in, take a look at the ground notice how compact the floor is. it takes more then a few travels to make such trails.

animal trail in a different location

EDIT: let me add that the majority of these trails headed south towards the hassayampa river where i have learned that there is a mountain lion den nearby...IF Daniel had an accident and got lost this could be a huge factor in his survival.

 

[JJ Ray]

Hello and Thank you, regarding the trails that i believe are from roaming animals...trails don't get so bold in that short amount of time unless you have a LOT of people going thru plus the directions obstacles do not add up to human trails...i am no pro just from my experience in the outdoors. ill add some more pictures of those trails.

in this picture you can see the trails i am talking about and on the top right of the picture there is a spot where vehicles have been going thru recently.
another of that connecting trail heading down a ravine...if you could zoom in, take a look at the ground notice how compact the floor is. it takes more then a few travels to make such trails.

animal trail in a different location

EDIT: let me add that the majority of these trails headed south towards the hassayampa river where i have learned that there is a mountain lion den nearby...IF Daniel had an accident and got lost this could be a huge factor in his survival.

Most of those wider obvious trails are cows. These properties are still ranched.

 

[oviedo]

AZ - Daniel Robinson, 24, remote job site, Buckeye, 23 Jun 2021,MEDIA,Maps,TIMELINE*NO DISCUSSION*

I opened a media maps and timeline thread - I like to add posts chronologically so people learning about Daniel can understand his story - i will update it but could use a hand if someone is able to add the MSM reports tonight - otherwise I will work on it tomorrow- thanks sleuthers -

ETA- I’ve posted through page 4 of this thread to his media thread so will check it tomorrow and if anyone updates- will pick up where left off- thanks

 

[WillieMac]

Everything we know about missing geologist Daniel Robinson

Another question someone may be able to help answer:

So the vehicles GPS/black box actually records “time”?
-from the article:
The first crash was four hours after he went missing, based on the GPS data.

If this is true, would it also have the times of all the other incidents (other crashes, airbag deployment, the 46 starts)?

I would *love* to hear how another independent crash scene investigator/reconstructist might interpret some of this info. I haven't dug into anything about this PI and I have no first hand knowledge of the local LE. I recognize that some folks may have reason to question local LE's efforts on the investigation and I can't call in to doubt the abilities of the PI hired by the family. It just seems odd that local LE seems to have few (if any) concerns about the incident, while the PI seems to be adamant that there has been foul play if some kind. In a situation like that, I generally try to step back and ask why. Why would opinions differ so widely? Who would have reason to lie or who should have the ability to provide the more educated opinion. And I can't say that I can figure that out from what I know. Assuming that the family is paying the PI, (& I think I've heard that the family has fundraisers going to help pay the PI) and the only way the PI would continue to get paid is if he finds some sort of reason for the family to think he's needed. And I don't for a second state that to throw shade on any opinions provided by the PI or by LE. I just feel there might be reason to have a third neutral party research & investigate and provide a third outsider opinion.

 

[o 0]

@o 0 , Outstanding job putting boots on the ground! Thank you for going out and gathering that information and pictures for the team!

Not a problem, would love to head out again with some experienced off road riders. I am new to off road riding on a motorcycle and going out there was pretty intimidating to say the least, i wanted to cover more area down the ravine into the hassayampa river but the risks are too high for solo riding in that type of environment. If i was ready for an overnight stay i most likely would of rode down that way

Most of those wider obvious trails are cows. These properties are still ranched.

i don't know about cows walking such trails up and down ravines like that but could be. If someone has knowledge about it please let us know.

 

[o 0]

I would *love* to hear how another independent crash scene investigator/reconstructist might interpret some of this info. I haven't dug into anything about this PI and I have no first hand knowledge of the local LE. I recognize that some folks may have reason to question local LE's efforts on the investigation and I can't call in to doubt the abilities of the PI hired by the family. It just seems odd that local LE seems to have few (if any) concerns about the incident, while the PI seems to be adamant that there has been foul play if some kind. In a situation like that, I generally try to step back and ask why. Why would opinions differ so widely? Who would have reason to lie or who should have the ability to provide the more educated opinion. And I can't say that I can figure that out from what I know. Assuming that the family is paying the PI, (& I think I've heard that the family has fundraisers going to help pay the PI) and the only way the PI would continue to get paid is if he finds some sort of reason for the family to think he's needed. And I don't for a second state that to throw shade on any opinions provided by the PI or by LE. I just feel there might be reason to have a third neutral party research & investigate and provide a third outsider opinion.

great questions and concerns, I would not put much faith on Buckeye PD investigating a missing person out in such area...not hating on Buckeye PD but living in phoenix with family in buckeye for over 40yrs you get a sense of their demeanor on the community and enthusiasm in such burdening conditions like the location he went missing in, i do believe the Maricopa County Sheriffs assists or assisted in many situations. About the PI's assessment of the accident, being out in that location raises eyebrows right away, the position of the vehicle, the markings on the vehicle, clothes and property left behind adds to very suspicious circumstances that raises the question, was he intentionally trying to destroy his nice looking jeep or why risk it out in such environment.

EDIT: i agree on a third party getting involved as it could enhance the search and potentially provide new details.

 

[o 0]

Welcome!!!
(You are not "Will" are you? I met a Will on Friday out there)

Anyway, a couple of things...the wreck was not a "rollover". It rolled onto its passenger side. This from McGrath the PI.

No I am not "Will", I went on Sat, September 25th 2021

I might know what you're saying about it being rolled onto its passenger side, in this picture it shows some kind of rollover marks on the driver side.


This picture shows a smashed front fender some scrapes on the driver side pillar without much damage to the rest of the side

post picture It also shows what looks like the passenger airbag deployed and the rear removable top/hatch circled in red....from what i learned you need a key to unlock the top to be able to take it out, there is one in front and one in the back.

 

[o 0]

I have pictures I would like to post so they wont go to waste, people could get a sense or view of the remoteness of the location he was working at and the isolation of where the vehicle was found that raises a lot of questions.

went in this gate Saturday Sept, 25th 2021 couple minutes after 8am and came out about 1:30pm that same gate covering about 14miles on my motorcycle and some walking(i do keep track of my miles since the bike is not equipped with a fuel gauge)



My bike at Daniels worksite according to the info provided

yes i am a proud owner ;]

Daniels worksite



picture of one of two hills i seen that could get you to the location where the jeep was found, the other hill is right next to the electrical facility that is a little more friendly but did not venture in..

 

[o 0]

Continued...not allowed to post more then 5images in a post.

pictures right after climbing that hill looking north towards that electrical facility rotating west then south




You might notice the tracks of vehicles and a path that leads to another part of that ravine into a dead end facing the Hassayampa river and would have to turn back around to get out depending on your off road machine. That is the majority of trails you would be able to ride comfortably up in those ravines the rest is really sketchy in a jeep like Daniels and would have to drive over vegetation on some narrow ravines that would challenge the majority of inexperienced off road drivers.

I also have video of my walks up and down the ravines, unfortunately i forgot the pin to screw down the go pro to the bike or i would of had video of the ride thru that area. I don't have a clue how to share video that are over 100mb up to 3gb.

I am tired now, PLEASE let me know if i messed something up or missed something. TY

 

[Curiousobserver]

THANKS AGAIN for the synopsis.

I read today and two new odd things in the reporting.
Mr. McGrath's account is he tried to replicate the speed of 30 mph and couldn't. Well, the only way they know the speed at time of crash is via the EDR. The EDR writes the data to the hard drive when the airbags are deployed and "freezes" all data. It also shuts off the fuel system. So if the airbags deployed at crash #1 and the vehicle was attempted to be started 46 times and eventually the fuel system got reset and driven 11 miles, why is he trying to replicate a 30 mph rate of speed at the ravine across raw desert? The 30 MPH is at airbag deployment, not crash#2. Is this bad reporting or a slip that might indicate the airbag deployment WAS at the crash scene (and the 46 starts (electric signals sent to the ACM-airbag control module) and 11 miles conclusion actually something else? I have speculations but will refrain.

Also new is the twist by Mr. Robinson, that his searches went over the crash area and didn't find it. This is misleading and since I was not personally there at the first search July 17th, I am trying to verify through another volunteer searcher. However, my understanding, since the vehicle had not bee found, is that they did start at the well site and went out along the various roads. I believe some, like myself the following day, made it south to the detention basin and possibly beyond. Where the vehicle was found is hard to see from ANY track because it was driven west across raw desert from the basin. It might have been seen from one track to the west (looking east) but only for a brief second before obscured by trees.

Great observations- this airbag issue will need to be explained.

Crash #1- where, when and what was the damage

Crash #2- same

When did the airbags deploy?, because as you said the fuel is shut off to limit fires. Somebody would have had to manually open the ACM and hit the switch (and known to do that, or googled it on their phone). That is a pretty rational thing to do and speaks to state of mind.