GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #66

[Covert Operative]

just reread the motion and it seems they are also asking the judge to dismiss the 8 murder charges against GW

I would be surprised if the judge drops counts 1-8 or the DP at this point. I do agree with you if the proffer says that G4 did not kill anyone it may give defense a degree of being able to negotiate. Some jurors will not find a person guilty of the DP or even guilty of murder if they did not actually shoot anyone. It's just a fact. There is the actual law and then some jurors have their own on law. The state has to weigh all the options of what could happen at trial along with whether to agree on a plea deal. G4 has not waived his right to double jeopardy.

Right! and the first also could mean in lawyer speak-
He did shoot but did not kill.
Everything this attorney writes is purposely ambiguous, unclear, inexact.
Lawyers gonna lawyer speak.
Just as GW4 is a liar.
Liars gonna lie.

It could mean he shot someone but did not kill them or he shot and did not hit a person or that he did not shoot or kill. Seems the state has accepted the proffers that he did not kill anyone as truthful. One reason I believe they held them for so long, trying to debunk that.

 

[Covert Operative]

just reread the motion and it seems they are also asking the judge to dismiss the 8 murder charges against GW

You have great logical, sensible understanding of legal aspects of this case. I enjoy reading your post.

 

[KYboy]

In regards to the discussion about what GWIV should or should not get - just a guess but did AW and JW say he did not shoot anybody? JMO, AW got all 8 murder charges dropped, and we know that she was involved in it up to her eyeballs from the beginning to end and she gets plea deal of 30 years, so then it should be what's fair for one should be fair for all. So, if GWIV did not shoot anybody, as neither did AW, then 30 years for him too?

My opinion is, they should ALL be given LWOP because we know they all planned it together and NOT ONE of them did anything to stop it, to stop any of it, and because of all FOUR of their actions, 8 people lost their lives!!!

I've never been a fan of these plea deals and this case is the perfect example of why! I mean, come on, you can participate in planning the murders of 8 people, which those plans are carried out and 8 people die because of it and you can get a plea deal for 30 years because you didn't actually shoot any of those 8 victims??!!

IMO, that isn't justice.[/

Agreed. No way AW should be offered a mere 30 years IMO.

 

[Ann99]

the defence attorneys have now seen JW proffer, nothing said in court about them seeing AW but I expect they will get to see hers, it is discoverable information to the defence, and the defendants have to be able to access the proffer it goes to how they will formulate their defence, not sure if they will already have read or listened to either proffer yet, and the judge can decide the DP is not applicable as the state has to show that the defendants crimes reach the criteria for it to be DP, that is why GW attys are asking the judge to remove the DP for GW,

the state did not allow GW,BW or AW access to JW proffer as they wanted to be able to check the details matched if one of the others chose to deal, after AW gave her proffer she must have told a same story as JW so it doesn't matter now what the others know about what they say,

the state has JW and AW stories and they seem to have accepted their versions, and it must have matched the evidence they have, BW and GW have to decide if they go to trial or deal,

to make a plea BW or GW will have to have the DP removed, as the only way you can get the DP is to have a trial (even if defendant wishes to plead guilty) so state proves in open court the guilt of defendant then they move to penalty phase where DP or LWOP is argued, so if the state is going to continue to want the DP for GW or BW their will have to be a trial, otherwise any deal with them excludes DP,

Basically agree with your thoughts except part bolded of last paragraph.

I believe it is the reverse.
GW4 is going to have to plea to get the DP removed.
He has not done that YET.

Seems to be a detail, but it is important to the Prosecution.
MO.
Prosecution can not not set precedence of 'dealing' on the basis of another's plea alone, to remove DP.
That takes the power away from the Prosecution (And Judge) and gives it to the criminals.
GW4 must make his own plea.

This fact pattern does not apply to JW as he was first.
And AW did her own plea that was accepted for her situation, apparently confirmed by JW

GW4 and Billy have factually committed all the elements needed for murder and DP.

Otherwise, yes, he takes his chances at trial.

 

[Covert Operative]

The prosecution team are the only ones who can decide to drop DP charges. Right now, no one knows all the details of JW's proffer except JW, the state and the defense attorneys representing the other defendants. Defendants are not allowed to see the proffer.

Neither is anyone on social media

Did someone on social media say they had seen the proffer or have it?

 

[joe jones]

Did someone on social media say they had seen the proffer or have it?

GW is asking judge to remove DP, so their is no negotiating a plea in that instance, the judge will decide thus taking the DP decision out of the states hands, if the judge says GW can still be eligible for DP it stays or he could remove it, if JW testifies to the states satisfaction no DP, so GW and BW are not ever going to get the DP due to the decision of others,

GW wants DP removed pre trial so that any negotiations start at the level of LWOP, at present the state can hold the DP over GW and BW so their choices are lessened, (even though they know the DP is removed if JW testifies correctly) having the DP removed from them by the judge means they start negotiations from a strengthened position due to the DP not playing any part in their plea discussions,

 

[LMDlong]

S

GW is asking judge to remove DP, so their is no negotiating a plea in that instance, the judge will decide thus taking the DP decision out of the states hands, if the judge says GW can still be eligible for DP it stays or he could remove it, if JW testifies to the states satisfaction no DP, so GW and BW are not ever going to get the DP due to the decision of others,

GW wants DP removed pre trial so that any negotiations start at the level of LWOP, at present the state can hold the DP over GW and BW so their choices are lessened, (even though they know the DP is removed if JW testifies correctly) having the DP removed from them by the judge means they start negotiations from a strengthened position due to the DP not playing any part in their plea discussions,

Sounds like BW’s attorneys just got down trying. IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

AW proffer was turned over in discovery to G4 the day of her plea deal. Defense then asked for experts (sealed) at G4 hearing which I believe was to compare, review, analyze both proffers. I had posted the discovery (AW proffers) that had been turned over, let me know if you did not see and would like to. Her proffer seems to be about half the length of JW.

Your Quote:

"I had posted the discovery (AW proffers) that had been turned over, let me know if you did not see and would like to."

@Covert Operative I don't remember seeing this, would you be so kind as to repost? Thanks so much.

 

[Cool Cats]

GW is asking judge to remove DP, so their is no negotiating a plea in that instance, the judge will decide thus taking the DP decision out of the states hands, if the judge says GW can still be eligible for DP it stays or he could remove it, if JW testifies to the states satisfaction no DP, so GW and BW are not ever going to get the DP due to the decision of others,

GW wants DP removed pre trial so that any negotiations start at the level of LWOP, at present the state can hold the DP over GW and BW so their choices are lessened, (even though they know the DP is removed if JW testifies correctly) having the DP removed from them by the judge means they start negotiations from a strengthened position due to the DP not playing any part in their plea discussions,

Rhoden family murders: Judge said death penalty won’t be dropped yet

Billy lost his Motion to get the DP dropped unless Jake testifies at his trial truthfully.

I think this sets a pretty good precedent that the same will happen to George. I would be super surprised if suddenly Judge Deering ruled in favor of George's Motion to get the DP off the table - before his brother testifies against him at trial.

George is @#$%& every which-way to Sunday because he was at the crime scenes, thus, this will keep the DP on the table for him until Jake testifies truthfully at his trial. Plus we have the precedent ruling on Billy's Motion.

Just being at the crime scenes is enough to be convicted of murder. Being at the crime scenes means that George helped to murder all 8 - just his presence there alone was helpful.

I previously listed the ways he likely assisted in the murders, at the scenes, aside from shooting. Also, had the Rhodens fought back, George would have used force against them, thus, facilitating the murders.

Chris Senior's porch where a gun casing was found. I believe George being at the crime scenes is enough for him to be convicted of murder even if he did not shoot his gun.

Investigators returning vehicles belonging to Rhoden family
WKRC 11-23-16

 

[Covert Operative]

Your Quote:

"I had posted the discovery (AW proffers) that had been turned over, let me know if you did not see and would like to."

@Covert Operative I don't remember seeing this, would you be so kind as to repost? Thanks so much.

 

[Cool Cats]

Hey thanks CO!

 

[Cool Cats]

Like father like son

 

[Fight4justice]

My opinion only! I don’t care if they killed anyone or not! Angela and George are guilty of complicity to murder. Their actions helped the murders be committed. I can not understand this. What info could you possibly provide that would override 8 murders?

 

[Dudly]

My opinion only! I don’t care if they killed anyone or not! Angela and George are guilty of complicity to murder. Their actions helped the murders be committed. I can not understand this. What info could you possibly provide that would override 8 murders?

My opinion is the cost of the four trials would be more than the county could afford. They are trying to get the best results with what they can afford to spend on this case. Think what the attorney fees for the Ws is costing alone.
Based on what they did, and the time spent planning it, LWOP should be the minimum sentence, in my opinion. The harm they have caused the little ones can’t be calculated...

 

[Fight4justice]

My opinion is the cost of the four trials would be more than the county could afford. They are trying to get the best results with what they can afford to spend on this case. Think what the attorney fees for the Ws is costing alone.
Based on what they did, and the time spent planning it, LWOP should be the minimum sentence, in my opinion. The harm they have caused the little ones can’t be calculated...

I strongly agree! LWOP would suit them all. I understand that maybe getting the actual shooters and securing life sentences for them may be the outcome due to financial responsibility. George’s defense attorneys have definitely tried to use as much of that fund as they could. To be honest, I was hoping that once the first plea deal was made, the others would follow suit.

 

[IType]

I strongly agree! LWOP would suit them all. I understand that maybe getting the actual shooters and securing life sentences for them may be the outcome due to financial responsibility. George’s defense attorneys have definitely tried to use as much of that fund as they could. To be honest, I was hoping that once the first plea deal was made, the others would follow suit.

Well, we have two down and two to go.

I am hoping that GW4's next hearing being scheduled only 6 weeks following his most recent hearing on 9/13/21, in addition to the recent motion filed in his case, is an indication that he and his team are trying to work out a deal with AC. I personally feel he should get LWOP since he was physically at the murder scenes, had a weapon and assisted in some fashion; but my guess is he expects the same deal as his mother's since he claims he did not actually kill anyone. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Well, we have two down and two to go.

I am hoping that GW4's next hearing being scheduled only 6 weeks following his most recent hearing on 9/13/21, in addition to the recent motion filed in his case, is an indication that he and his team are trying to work out a deal with AC. I personally feel he should get LWOP since he was physically at the murder scenes, had a weapon and assisted in some fashion; but my guess is he expects the same deal as his mother's since he claims he did not actually kill anyone. JMO

This is a young guy who has been imprisoned almost 3 years. A 30 year sentence would now be a 27 year sentence and if he served every day of it he would still be out playing with his grandchildren at age 57.

I am hoping for murder charges to keep him in for life. Absolute life.

As it stands now, Angela will be out when she is Fred's age, later 70's. This is if she doesn't get parole.

She is not sopose to get parole right? I need to go back and listen to that part of the hearing.

 

[KYboy]

This is a young guy who has been imprisoned almost 3 years. A 30 year sentence would now be a 27 year sentence and if he served every day of it he would still be out playing with his grandchildren at age 57.

I am hoping for murder charges to keep him in for life. Absolute life.

As it stands now, Angela will be out when she is Fred's age, later 70's. This is if she doesn't get parole.

She is not sopose to get parole right? I need to go back and listen to that part of the hearing.

Even in her late 70's, AW will still have some life out of prison. Not right!!

 

[Cool Cats]

Even in her late 70's, AW will still have some life out of prison. Not right!!

Here is what a family member said about it:

Rhoden relatives gathered outside after the hearing, consoling one another. One woman glared at Wagner from her car as Wagner exited the courthouse.

"I see a woman with no sympathy, no remorse," she said, commenting on the sentence. "She's getting 30 years more than what our family gets."

Angela Wagner pleads guilty in Rhoden family murder case

 

[FrankieT]

This is a young guy who has been imprisoned almost 3 years. A 30 year sentence would now be a 27 year sentence and if he served every day of it he would still be out playing with his grandchildren at age 57.

I am hoping for murder charges to keep him in for life. Absolute life.

As it stands now, Angela will be out when she is Fred's age, later 70's. This is if she doesn't get parole.

She is not sopose to get parole right? I need to go back and listen to that part of the hearing.

It was my understanding that there is NO parole possible and she can get more time if she gets in trouble in prison.