Identified! ME - Jonesport, Wht/OtherMale 60-65, UP15307, in ocean, clothes, watch, Jul'00 - Philip Kahn

[djanga]

Jonesport John Doe has a new highest match of 175.6 cM!

 

[carbuff]

The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:
First Name Last Name Year of Birth State LKA
Jeremy Crocker 1934 California
Joseph Halpern 1910 Colorado
Philip Letarte 1922 Maine
John Malloch 1918 Maine
Michael Nash 1938 New York


He has dentals, DNA, and fingerprints.

No new exclusions.

 

[Susikatze]

Let this be the last Passover he will be without his name. He needs to come back home.

 

[djanga]

His Oracle admixture was added to the DDP spreadsheet, it looks like he was an Ashkenazi as we thought.

 

[Warwick1991]

DDP replied recently on their facebook page that they are still working on this case

I have read that DDP invited a specialist in Jewish genealogy to their team. Anthony Armbrust (Park co John Doe) who was identified last month, was half- Ashkenazi Jewish(by his maternal side), in the press conference the team leader for this case was describing how difficult it was to identify him, I think they mentioned that many records in Eastern Europe were destroyed and also many Jewish families changed their names before coming to America. I think you can still watch the press conference on Park co (Colorado) coroner facebook page.

I have found that the Jewish population of Maine is approximately 9000 people, not too big.

Jonesport John Doe might not be from Maine. He could easily have been a visitor from another New England state, such as Massachusetts, Rhode Island or New Hampshire. If he was traveling by himself, it could explain why he wasn't missed. Perhaps family members had no idea where he went. Based on being a former New Englander, I would guess that Jonesport John Doe may be from Rhode Island - especially with some Italian ancestry in his profile in addition to Ashkenazi Jewish. However, the Jonesport area is not a tourist destination. It is still a relatively poor fishing community, and has relatively few tourist facilities. His discovery in the area may mean he came from a ferry, such as the Bluenose, which sails from Halifax to Bar Harbor. In this situation, he would go overboard undetected.

 

[Alleykins]

The Bluenose was replaced by the Cat in 1997, and it went from Bar Harbor to Yarmouth, NS, not Halifax. The Cat still sails that route.
You bring up a good point, though. I always believed this poor man was possibly from Canada and fell off a boat, but that wouldn't make sense unless it was a big one with lots of people where it might not be noticed. If it were a small vessel or fishing boat, he'd be missed. I'd totally forgotten about the many ferry services operating along the Maine coast.
I've never taken one of the ferries operated by the state of Maine from the mainland to the islands, like to Vinalhaven, but I took the Bluenose cruise back in the 80s. I don't recall giving them my name when I boarded, only to make a reservation over the phone. When we left port, there were hundreds of people on board (I looked it up, she could carry 0ver 600), and someone could have fallen off it without anyone noticing. The Cat can hold over 800.
There are also ferry services that go from NB to NS, north of Jonesport.

 

[Susikatze]

No, he has no Italian admix. He has a very typical "full blood" Ashkenazi profile. That typically shares some characteristics with Italian DNA, which may stem back 2000 years in Jewish history. But it does not mean he has any recent Italian blood.
His stats look 100% Ashkenazi to me.

 

[Warwick1991]

The currents in the Gulf of Maine run south, meaning the likely origin of a body found 27 miles east of Jonesport would be a vessel heading to or from Canada. There is a growing volume of cruise ship traffic in the same area, with port calls at Bar Harbor, ME. Celebrity Cruises has vessels that stop in Bar Harbor, and that proceed on to Canada with port calls in ST John, NB and others in Nova Scotia. The route goes east of Jonesport, not far from John Doe's recovery site. https://www.celebritycruises.com/itinerary-search?portsOfCall=BHB Cruise ship traffic in this area has become quite heavy, with locals looking to limit the number of ships stopping in Bar Harbor. Bar Harbor to Explore Limiting Future Cruise Ship Visits

I was a frequent visitor to the Bar Harbor area in the late 1960's and early 1970's - it was a quiet place, well before there were 200 cruise ships making port calls annually. Cruise ships apparently began stops in the area in the late 1990's. Pre-Covid-19, there was a considerable amount of maritime passenger traffic in the area. Jonesport is north of Bar Harbor, and some kind of passenger vessel on a route that either stopped in or originated in Canada in late May 2000 is the likely point of origin for John Doe. Perhaps there's an unexamined cruise ship manifest that shows a person missing...

Let us hope he's identified soon.

 

[DS2021]

he was wearing
blue, long-sleeved, collared knit shirt
Pullover - three button front, Weargaurd brand, size XL, Made in USA
White, V-neck t-shirt, Chereskin brand, size XL, Made in Mexico

I dont think wear guard is a super common brand, could we use this to help id him?

 

[DS2021]

Perhaps there's an unexamined cruise ship manifest that shows a person missing...

Is there any way for a WS to do that
The only thing i can think of is checking newspapers.com to see if it was reported somewhere
unfortunately my free trial is over but maybe someone else here can look for us

 

[Warwick1991]

he was wearing
blue, long-sleeved, collared knit shirt
Pullover - three button front, Weargaurd brand, size XL, Made in USA
White, V-neck t-shirt, Chereskin brand, size XL, Made in Mexico

I dont think wear guard is a super common brand, could we use this to help id him?

I did a little research, and WearGuard is a work wear brand. The trademark is still in use, but I don’t think the original manufacturer is the same. Much of their clothing was sold to be embroidered or printed with a company name of an employer, but some items, especially polo shirts were sold unmarked. Older used WearGuard items that I saw for sale on internet sites were marked “Made in USA,” and were marketed as clothing for work. There are other brands similar to this today, like Port Authority.

This kind of product would be sold to people whose employer required certain color shirts or other garments. Presumably, Jonesport Doe didn’t have a company name on his pullover…. IMO this brand, marketed for sturdiness, would be sold to working people or those with outdoor occupations. Even if the shirt wasn’t employer-related, it might have appealed to someone who needed very rugged clothing. Perhaps a crew member of a vessel?

 

[DS2021]

it might have appealed to someone who needed very rugged clothing. Perhaps a crew member of a vessel?

That doesnt seem like something someone on a cruise would be wearing though does it?

 

[carbuff]

That doesnt seem like something someone on a cruise would be wearing though does it?

There's a lot of working traffic between the Boston area ports and Nova Scotia--fishing boats, ferries, casino/party cruises that are often targeted to a more working class audience. All the kinds of things that might have crew in that sort of uniform, but also the kind of thing where the passengers might be dressed like they would be for a weekend afternoon on shore.

A paying customer falling off a whale watch would probably get a lot of attention, but a ferry worker falling overboard probably wouldn't get more than a short notice.

 

[DS2021]

Lawrence Rich went missing from a fishing boat off the coast of Maine 6 months before this. Seems too obvious not to have looked at that one first?
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

has anyone submitted this as a tip?
if not should I?

 

[Susikatze]

Was he jewish or of jewish descent (not practising judaism, but born of 2 jewish parents)? If yes, please submit. If not, it is not him. Our UID has a fully Ashkenazi Jewish DNA profile.

 

[bombardier]

has anyone submitted this as a tip?
if not should I?

I found the official safety report on the sinking on the boat that led to Larry Rich's death; the blacked-out name is Shawn Rich, the only surviving member, and Larry's son. Apparently, Larry had completely donned his survival suit before being caught under the boat. Considering this UID was found nearly fully dressed (no pants though?), I doubt that he could have been wearing a survival suit that came off where his shirts did not.
Btw, this is what a survival suit (or immersion suit) looks like-

 

[carbuff]

Pants--really all clothing--are easily sucked off in the water, so it doesn't surprise me his pants were missing.

 

[Alleykins]

Not an expert on currents, but I spent a lot of time last year helping my son study them for a marine biology module/project. The way the currents move along in the area where Lawrence Rich went missing would have mostly likely pushed him in a southerly direction, not northerly, where this John Doe was found. It would depend on where the ship capsized, though.

 

[carbuff]

Not an expert on currents, but I spent a lot of time last year helping my son study them for a marine biology module/project. The way the currents move along in the area where Lawrence Rich went missing would have mostly likely pushed him in a southerly direction, not northerly, where this John Doe was found. It would depend on where the ship capsized, though.

Also whether there was a storm that went through while he was floating. A tropical system or winter blizzard can sweep objects, including bodies, hundreds of miles out of the way.

 

[DS2021]

I just came across this on Newspapers.com. I cant find anymore information about him. Can someone with more research experience help me find out if this man has been found or not?
If he hasn't been found he could potentially be Jonesport John Doe.