GUILTY UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London, Clapham Common area, 3 Mar 2021 *Life sentence* #16

Status
Not open for further replies.
Chilling images show how blood was found on front and rear seats and boot of Wayne Couzens' car | Daily Mail Online

I read his car did not look clean/new enough to be a police car which can be seen from the photos in the article, this article says: "He hired a Vauxhall Crossland from a rental garage after plotting for over a month, because the car looked similar to an undercover police car."

The information in this article is a useful indicator how appalling some journalistic transcribing/mapping is. The caption of one of those images says he dumped her body in a wood near the ropewalk in sandwich. No he didn’t, that’s where he chucked her phone. The location of her body is not noted on here at all.

Even with a v carefully laid out summation of the evidence in open court the report in the Daily Mail is full of errors. So in the midst of and investigation worth bearing in mind quite how misleading/useless the information is.

I know broadsheets are slower to get their copy out - but at least it is usually accurate.
 
There were witnesses alleged to have seen SE handcuffed by WC. I can't imagine being handcuffed for a civil offense -- let alone taken away in an unmarked vehicle. I cannot imagine the fear and agony SE must have experienced. I agree with SE's sister -- I also hope she was in utter shock and remained so where she could not process. :eek::eek::(:(

Not sure what you mean by “civil offense”? Breach of COVID regulations was a criminal offence at various points including when SE was arrested (someone correct me if I am wrong). Honestly, it wouldn’t have seemed immediately “off”, it might seem heavy-handed but it was strange times and there were some questionably harsh arrests by police officers and decisions by courts that had to be overturned once the dust had settled.
 
The information in this article is a useful indicator how appalling some journalistic transcribing/mapping is. The caption of one of those images says he dumped her body in a wood near the ropewalk in sandwich. No he didn’t, that’s where he chucked her phone. The location of her body is not noted on here at all. Even with a v carefully laid out summation of the evidence in open court the report in the Daily Mail is full of errors. So in the midst of and investigation worth bearing in mind quite how misleading/useless the information is. I know broadsheets are slower to get their copy out - but at least it is usually accurate.

Yes DMOnline is purely about eyeballs on screens as ads=£ hence the sensationalism style, their copywriting/proofing is horrendous as they prioritise speed...they even publish with the html (ie <br etc) left in titles to get things up first! The photos I thought would be of interest to those following today and hence shared as relevant, but I fully agree in that it should not be the main place to get one's facts!
 
The information in this article is a useful indicator how appalling some journalistic transcribing/mapping is. The caption of one of those images says he dumped her body in a wood near the ropewalk in sandwich. No he didn’t, that’s where he chucked her phone. The location of her body is not noted on here at all.

Even with a v carefully laid out summation of the evidence in open court the report in the Daily Mail is full of errors. So in the midst of and investigation worth bearing in mind quite how misleading/useless the information is.

I know broadsheets are slower to get their copy out - but at least it is usually accurate.

Also - that 3D animation of the DNA samples in the car is quite instructive. While there was one sample of Sarah’s blood identified on the back of the back seat, the rest of the samples were his blood and semen. The fact there doesn’t appear to be lots of it indicates maybe there wasn’t some additional awfulness that one might have imagined from just hearing snippets from journalists in court. In fact there are more blood samples from him - they are only his on the back seat. So maybe it was all over really quite quickly. (I pray).
 
I'd be looking as the cell site data for Sarah's phone. I may have been switched off as she was abducted or the SIM card removed, but it's rough last known position using triangulation could have been identifed. Phones with similar triangulation strengths at the same time could be be identified and then manual checks done to identify subscribers - trace, interview, eliminate to find the possible suspects or do more unobtrusive enquiries first to find key suspects.

If Sarah's phone was not switched off immediately then it could possibly be matched to vehicles on CCTV and ANPR travelling a similar route.

Painstaking work but that's what serious crime investigators are well versed in.

Fortunately the eye-witness and bus CCTV prevented having to do all that legwork.

This has just reminded me. SE’s phone didn’t register at all after the call to her bf. So at the time she was handcuffed and got in the car he just have taken her phone then too. To ensure it was turned off. If so she would know something was wrong at that point. Which doesn’t add up. Presumably she didn’t realise something was amiss till they started heading out of London.
 
I watched the video of his arrest and a few things he said really struck me when talking about the gang asking him to abduct women for them:

1. "I'd happily..."
2. "The van came up behind me, flashed me, they jumped out..."
3. "They said 'you've done good'..."

I assume the police are investigating if he could have abducted people before but for money:(
 
I thought a police car drove passed her shortly before she reached WC, but the other CCTV/dashcam of them standing by the road were from buses/other private cars.

Yes I think it did too. But possibly too early to see her being handcuffed. That could have made a huge difference if they had seen that and pulled over.
 
I'd be interested to know if he knew he was going to be investigated about the flashing incident and had then thought he had nothing more to lose by committing this horrible crime. Surely he would have known he was on borrowed time if he had been asked about it.

I am not sure how he could have known as they hadn’t linked the car (from the flashings) to him - until after SE was kidnapped. UNLESS - some colleague alerted him to the report of the flashings.
 
I'd be looking as the cell site data for Sarah's phone. I may have been switched off as she was abducted or the SIM card removed, but it's rough last known position using triangulation could have been identifed. Phones with similar triangulation strengths at the same time could be be identified and then manual checks done to identify subscribers - trace, interview, eliminate to find the possible suspects or do more unobtrusive enquiries first to find key suspects.

If Sarah's phone was not switched off immediately then it could possibly be matched to vehicles on CCTV and ANPR travelling a similar route.

Painstaking work but that's what serious crime investigators are well versed in.

Fortunately the eye-witness and bus CCTV prevented having to do all that legwork.

This is exactly what was done within 48 hours of Sarah being reported as missing - it was reported on 5th March that her phone last pinged the mast on Clarence Avenue and nothing further was heard from it so there was no way to trace the movements after that point.

Even with triangulation, it is a built up area, thousands of phones in peoples houses, on buses etc all would have had a similar triangulation, it is not as accurate as the TV shows lead us to believe, maybe up to 1km radius, and many of those phones would be untraceable anyway. And with 4 different networks, there was a 75% chance the perpetrators phone was connected to a different mast so wouldn't even been comparable triangulation wise.

After the event triangulation isn't as accurate as you may think. A phone doesn't constantly talk to cell phone masts as this would consume a lot of battery power and congest the limited radio bandwidth available. Once it has registered to the nearest mast it simply listens without transmitting anything unless a call or data transfer is taking place. The phone will check periodically by listening to see if the mast it is connected to is still the strongest, if it is, it does nothing, no transmission or 'ping' is required and no records of that event are known by the network operator.

When the received signal from the mast becomes weak or another mast becomes stronger, it will make a decision to request a connection to a different mast which will involve making a roam request transmission which will be picked up by one or more masts. The network provider then tells the phone which mast to connect to. Only at that point is it possible for a triangulation to be approximated based on the strength of the 'ping' signal received by the masts that hear that request. The phone then goes back to listening mode and will not transmit anything to other masts even when moving as long as the connected mast remains the strongest.

Even if the phone is engaged in a call or data transfer, the other masts are not aware of its presence as it will be using a frequency that only the mast it is connected to can hear. It can only be triangulated when the phone makes a specific request to roam between masts on a specific frequency heard by all the masts in the area - that can be very infrequent.

That occasional ping can be totally skewed by buildings or even a passing bus that reduces the signal dramatically in one direction leading to a totally inaccurate triangulation. Phones in cars are particularly difficult to triangulate as well because of the metal box they are contained in hampering the signal strength in some directions but not others.

You can't even determine the exact time a phone was switched off either, you can only say that it last pinged at X time, it could be switched off 10 minutes later without any of the masts knowing about that even because it doesn't sign off.

Live triangulation of a phone is a lot more accurate than after the event, it can be forced to make lots of pings by the network operator which would provide increasingly accurate data - but that is generally the stuff of TV shows and secret services.

Sorry for the long post on this, I just think the expectations of most people in triangulation of phones is much higher than reality due to TV shows.
 
Someone may have the link, but Couzens was not being formally investigated for that incident at the time he killed Sarah. He may have thought the dots would be joined up, and the police may have got around to it in the end although given a previous incident in 2015 hadn’t gone anywhere, I am unconvinced, but he had not been confronted about that incident (otherwise he may well have been formally suspended from duty, which he was not, when he killed Sarah).

I believe Couzens was not out of control, not a man who felt he had nothing to lose. He was simply arrogant, selfish and stupid.

And as others have mentioned previously - he was on a progressive course to carry out his fantasy - progression from flashings.
 
This is exactly what was done within 48 hours of Sarah being reported as missing - it was reported on 5th March that her phone last pinged the mast on Clarence Avenue and nothing further was heard from it so there was no way to trace the movements after that point.

Even with triangulation, it is a built up area, thousands of phones in peoples houses, on buses etc all would have had a similar triangulation, it is not as accurate as the TV shows lead us to believe, maybe up to 1km radius, and many of those phones would be untraceable anyway. And with 4 different networks, there was a 75% chance the perpetrators phone was connected to a different mast so wouldn't even been comparable triangulation wise.

After the event triangulation isn't as accurate as you may think. A phone doesn't constantly talk to cell phone masts as this would consume a lot of battery power and congest the limited radio bandwidth available. Once it has registered to the nearest mast it simply listens without transmitting anything unless a call or data transfer is taking place. The phone will check periodically by listening to see if the mast it is connected to is still the strongest, if it is, it does nothing, no transmission or 'ping' is required and no records of that event are known by the network operator.

When the received signal from the mast becomes weak or another mast becomes stronger, it will make a decision to request a connection to a different mast which will involve making a roam request transmission which will be picked up by one or more masts. The network provider then tells the phone which mast to connect to. Only at that point is it possible for a triangulation to be approximated based on the strength of the 'ping' signal received by the masts that hear that request. The phone then goes back to listening mode and will not transmit anything to other masts even when moving as long as the connected mast remains the strongest.

Even if the phone is engaged in a call or data transfer, the other masts are not aware of its presence as it will be using a frequency that only the mast it is connected to can hear. It can only be triangulated when the phone makes a specific request to roam between masts on a specific frequency heard by all the masts in the area - that can be very infrequent.

That occasional ping can be totally skewed by buildings or even a passing bus that reduces the signal dramatically in one direction leading to a totally inaccurate triangulation. Phones in cars are particularly difficult to triangulate as well because of the metal box they are contained in hampering the signal strength in some directions but not others.

You can't even determine the exact time a phone was switched off either, you can only say that it last pinged at X time, it could be switched off 10 minutes later without any of the masts knowing about that even because it doesn't sign off.

Live triangulation of a phone is a lot more accurate than after the event, it can be forced to make lots of pings by the network operator which would provide increasingly accurate data - but that is generally the stuff of TV shows and secret services.

Sorry for the long post on this, I just think the expectations of most people in triangulation of phones is much higher than reality due to TV shows.

I thought it would difficult to only use phone data - but presumably if he was a suspect for other potential reasons then at least this data could maybe place him in the vicinity if he was trying to deny being there. But yes, needle in a haystack time but useful when one at least knows what to look for.
 
This is exactly what was done within 48 hours of Sarah being reported as missing - it was reported on 5th March that her phone last pinged the mast on Clarence Avenue and nothing further was heard from it so there was no way to trace the movements after that point.

Even with triangulation, it is a built up area, thousands of phones in peoples houses, on buses etc all would have had a similar triangulation, it is not as accurate as the TV shows lead us to believe, maybe up to 1km radius, and many of those phones would be untraceable anyway. And with 4 different networks, there was a 75% chance the perpetrators phone was connected to a different mast so wouldn't even been comparable triangulation wise.

After the event triangulation isn't as accurate as you may think. A phone doesn't constantly talk to cell phone masts as this would consume a lot of battery power and congest the limited radio bandwidth available. Once it has registered to the nearest mast it simply listens without transmitting anything unless a call or data transfer is taking place. The phone will check periodically by listening to see if the mast it is connected to is still the strongest, if it is, it does nothing, no transmission or 'ping' is required and no records of that event are known by the network operator.

When the received signal from the mast becomes weak or another mast becomes stronger, it will make a decision to request a connection to a different mast which will involve making a roam request transmission which will be picked up by one or more masts. The network provider then tells the phone which mast to connect to. Only at that point is it possible for a triangulation to be approximated based on the strength of the 'ping' signal received by the masts that hear that request. The phone then goes back to listening mode and will not transmit anything to other masts even when moving as long as the connected mast remains the strongest.

Even if the phone is engaged in a call or data transfer, the other masts are not aware of its presence as it will be using a frequency that only the mast it is connected to can hear. It can only be triangulated when the phone makes a specific request to roam between masts on a specific frequency heard by all the masts in the area - that can be very infrequent.

That occasional ping can be totally skewed by buildings or even a passing bus that reduces the signal dramatically in one direction leading to a totally inaccurate triangulation. Phones in cars are particularly difficult to triangulate as well because of the metal box they are contained in hampering the signal strength in some directions but not others.

You can't even determine the exact time a phone was switched off either, you can only say that it last pinged at X time, it could be switched off 10 minutes later without any of the masts knowing about that even because it doesn't sign off.

Live triangulation of a phone is a lot more accurate than after the event, it can be forced to make lots of pings by the network operator which would provide increasingly accurate data - but that is generally the stuff of TV shows and secret services.

Sorry for the long post on this, I just think the expectations of most people in triangulation of phones is much higher than reality due to TV shows.
Wow! Thanks.
Is there a subject you are not well versed at?
But my favourite ones were about money/debts!
 
Chilling images show how blood was found on front and rear seats and boot of Wayne Couzens' car | Daily Mail Online

I read his car did not look clean/new enough to be a police car which can be seen from the photos in the article, this article says: "He hired a Vauxhall Crossland from a rental garage after plotting for over a month, because the car looked similar to an undercover police car."

When you look at the video in the above article, of SE and WC at the roadside, SE appears to be gesticulating a bit with her hands, as if explaining something. Maybe she was explaining she wasn’t breaching Covid rules and standing her ground so he then got more intimidating to make her comply. Someone at court said they think he threatened her.
 
Also - that 3D animation of the DNA samples in the car is quite instructive. While there was one sample of Sarah’s blood identified on the back of the back seat, the rest of the samples were his blood and semen. The fact there doesn’t appear to be lots of it indicates maybe there wasn’t some additional awfulness that one might have imagined from just hearing snippets from journalists in court. In fact there are more blood samples from him - they are only his on the back seat. So maybe it was all over really quite quickly. (I pray).

Agree. There wasn’t exactly blood everywhere and in the later cctv at the service station his trousers (cringe) appear to be the same and look clean. I thought that when seeing that cctv. However why would HIS blood be in the car? I hope she hurt him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
89
Guests online
3,521
Total visitors
3,610

Forum statistics

Threads
592,284
Messages
17,966,625
Members
228,735
Latest member
dil2288
Back
Top