CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #5

[LifeIsAMystery]

Evidently not:
8/19/2021 – Autopsies completed on Family and Dog- All currently pending toxicology
Mariposa Sheriff’s Office Update on the Gerrish – Chung Family | Sierra News Online


Gerrish/Chung toxicology sent to labs.

K-9 Samples sent to multiple labs.



Pathological findings in dogs with fatal heatstroke - PubMed

Eleven dogs with fatal heatstroke were examined grossly and histopathologically post mortem. All showed multi-organ haemorrhagic diathesis with coagulative necrosis.

Oski was on the trail for 72+ hours in high heat and direct sun, including after death, that impacts both tox and autopsy findings.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Agree.

But not on the SL trail.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

I have never heard or read of people dying from the cleaning/lack of cleaning re: Camelback and I hike, MOO.

Re: a point raised at the end of the other thread, DOJ and FBI are involved when deaths occur on federal land, not case specific.

Nor have I, but I see a lot of novel ideas here.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Agree.

But not on the SL trail.

Oski was on the trail for 72+ hours in high heat and direct sun after death, that impacts findings.

I wonder how the dog managed all that time in high heat? At what point would a thick-coated dog succumb to the high temperatures?

 

[Pumphouse363]

Oski was on the trail for 72+ hours in high heat and direct sun after death, that impacts findings.

We don’t actually know for how long he was dead.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Some pretty funky bacteria could grow in one but it seems unlikely any of those would incapacitate a family together at the same time. More likely it would lead to GI issues.

That said, is it a possible homicide scenario where someone said, "Here, take my camelback with you on the hike tomorrow. I just filled it with fresh water", and gave them a water supply with an unknown toxin? Were they ever known to use a Camelback? I have wondered how exactly a Camelback could be used together with a backpack style baby carrier.

I assumed that EC was wearing the Camelback but it has not been clarified, MOO. I believe there may be inserts for baby carriers, but am not sure, never used one myself. Perhaps others can clarify. LE has seemed to refer to them having one water bladder with them, singular, MOO.

 

[Pumphouse363]

I know some folks might be waiting for data from the phone, but that might never happen, for at least 2 reasons:
1. The phone might be heavily encrypted and/or a beta version of new technology. Actually, EC might not have had access, either, which might explain a scenario where she was running for help without his phone.
2. The phone might not have been functional at that temperature. I know this happens, because I got an iphone kinda recently after having a burner for years. I left it on the dashboard of my car, not realizing that’s a VERY bad idea. In no time at all, the phone was not functional. DEAD.
If JG had his phone e.g. in a shirt pocket, it would very likely have died in that heat. The temperature may simply have been above the heat tolerance of the technology. And a shirt pocket would put it in direct sunlight/heat, basically cooked. Even if the phone had been buried (e.g. wrapped in diapers in the baby pack), it might not have been functional.
So, I don’t think there’ll be any news forthcoming on the contents of the phone.

I think you’re probably right about the phone being heavily encrypted - but surely his techie friends could crack it? Also I know it may have been affected by the heat I just thought it may have been used prior to becoming dysfunctional. If it is severely affected by heat does that make it totally obsolete?

 

[Pumphouse363]

I assumed that EC was wearing the Camelback but it has not been clarified, MOO. I believe there may be inserts for baby carriers, but am not sure, never used one myself. Perhaps others can clarify. LE has seemed to refer to them having one water bladder with them, singular, MOO.

I’d like to know whether the baby carrier/backpack posted by Ellen online that morning is the same one that they were found with.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Thank you for your explanation. I think I understand what you mean regarding satellite communications being difficult in some areas. However I was thinking more in terms of, for example, where they were at 7.45 when the vehicle was seen or where they were when they lost signal. My phone tracks me when I go on walks. I know it’s not the same terrain but it would still record my journey up to the point where I lost the signal. Also Jon worked for Google over ten years. He would have had the latest tech available - and probably some we’ve never even heard of yet.

There was no statement that they were carrying a PLB device. Maybe they did not own one or maybe they did not carry one on day hikes.

 

[Yvettea]

Good article. To go along with it, here is a news article on a recent heat-related death in Death Valley. Below the article it says "related" and has three more, two from the last couple of months and one from last year.
Another Hiker Fatality in Death Valley.

This article raises a good point about the need not only for drinking plenty of water but also eating salty snacks to replace the sodium lost through excessive sweating during strenuous exercise at high temperatures. Just drinking extra water can flush out electrolytes which need to be replaced. One option is to drink energy drinks. Losing too much sodium can result in coma which could be disastrous at the temperatures seen that day on SLT.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Is that article raises a good point about the need not only for drinking plenty of water but also eating salty snacks to replace the sodium lost through excessive sweating during strenuous exercise at high temperatures. Just drinking extra water can flush out electrolytes which need to be replaced. One option is to drink energy drinks. Losing too much sodium can result in coma which could be disastrous at the temperatures seen that day on SLT.

I was getting ready to mention we don’t know items packed, other than water. At least I have not found a published list of backpack items.
Perhaps they consumed energy drinks along the trail and had empty containers in their pack.
Moo

 

[PerplexedPatty]

The fact Briese declines comment on returned tests leaves me inclined to believe results warranted more advanced testing and continued interviews would be related to test results.. Moo
Ex: XYZ was found but how did XYZ originate?
Moo

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

The sheriff’s office says many toxicology reports have returned, but the content of those reports is not disclosed at this time.

Officials say they are still waiting for some “significant results” and the timeline for their reporting was not immediately apparent.

More causes of death ruled out in case of Mariposa County family found dead on hiking trail - California News Times

Anyone else find the secrecy regarding tox’ reports suspicious?
Moo

No. Things are not commonly released piecemeal. MOO.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

No. Things are not commonly released piecemeal. MOO.

I disagree, we are getting pieces, furthermore, imo, there is little to be gained from continued interviews 6+ weeks after discovery.
Imo, LE is not conducting interviews to ask “how much water would this family normally pack.” Or “how unusual would it be for this family to hike in hot temps.” Continued interviews screams something much more nefarious, imo.
However, continued interviews might be necessary based on returned tox’ tests is my opinion.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

this article is from late August, we know some of the poisonous possibilities are now eliminated. Imo, there remains an unlimited number of other “poisonous possibilities” that require advanced and duplicate testing. Moo

Hiking family’s cause of death still a mystery after autopsies in California - National | Globalnews.ca

In the meantime, authorities have been mulling a range of poisonous possibilities, including toxic algae and deadly gas released by old mines near the forest’s scenic Hite Cove trail.

 

[Parsnip]

.

I disagree, we are getting pieces, furthermore, imo, there is little to be gained from continued interviews 6+ weeks after discovery.
Imo, LE is not conducting interviews to ask “how much water would this family normally pack.” Or “how unusual would it be for this family to hike in hot temps.” Continued interviews screams something much more nefarious, imo.
However, continued interviews might be necessary based on returned tox’ tests is my opinion.

I would imagine that a variety of specialists in things like heat stroke and toxic algae would be consulted in this case. MOO

 

[RedHaus]

But not on the SL trail.

I wonder how the dog managed all that time in high heat? At what point would a thick-coated dog succumb to the high temperatures?

BBM
Well, if I recall correctly, @Runswithdogs (a veterinarian) informed us a long way back, that in that heat without shade, Oski likely was exhibiting heat stress signs within 15 to 30 minutes of starting out that morning. That is why I still contend they likely did not get far that day... perhaps just down the SL trail where they were found. IMO.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

.

I would imagine that a variety of specialists in things like heat stroke and toxic algae would be consulted in this case. MOO

Absolutely. Forensic pathologists have a wealth of info available to them, imo. Professional organizations, peers, publications, experience…
Moo

I also doubt LE is asking “what is the chance either adult ingested algae or filled their water bottle with fresh water.”

moo

 

[PerplexedPatty]

BBM
Well, if I recall correctly, @Runswithdogs (a veterinarian) informed us a long way back, that in that heat without shade, Oski likely was exhibiting heat stress signs within 15 to 30 minutes of starting out that morning. That is why I still contend they likely did not get far that day... perhaps just down the SL trail where they were found. IMO.

I think we might never know how far they actually traveled.
Imo, the CoD is in the remaining water they reportedly had. MOO

 

[RedHaus]

Very good question.
I would've imagined LE to have announced by now something like this, after their initial autopsies AND after poisonous gas, homicide, suicide and so on were all ruled out.
COD
Dog - overheat
Baby - overheat
JG - still unknown
EC - still unknown
MOO

RSBM
While I don't expect LE to release COD for any family member in piecemeal fashion, I do think part of the seemingly protracted investigation is because COD will likely end up varying by family member as you suggest. So it is complex. I also suspect, IMO, that Oski and Miju died from heatstroke as dependents of adults who died from something more complicated... some combination of things that could include legal drugs, poison such as a pesticide or Ethelene Glycol, and possibly heatstroke as well.

And given the 9/30 update from the SO, I think foul play could explain why they were on the SL trail, a place where few of us, if any, would go that day, especially with a baby and long haired dog with unprotected (?) paws. So let me dabble with foul play a little since Admin has entrusted us with guided permission.

IMO: What if JG and EC intended to meet someone at the trail head? or had planned a rendezvous with someone nearby that morning and were eventually taken to the trailhead? What if the meet-up was a lure to get them out of their house by a nefarious character they knew or didn't know? That meet-up goes terribly wrong and then at gun point they are forced 1.5 miles down the SL trail. There, the adults are incapacitated by the third party (pesticide, Fentanyl). JG and EC are both left unconscious (presumed dead), dog tied to JG to keep him there, baby in carrier next to JG. JG dies from the acute poisoning and the dog and babe die of heatstroke... EC comes to, in a very weakened and sickened state, sees her family is all deceased, and with horrific grief and panic, she crawls 30m towards the truck and then succumbs to heat / poison.

Of course the ability to better understand the tracking of paw and foot prints (JG, EC, Oski, searchers, LE, and then possibly nefarious entities) is key to this scenario. But I keep going back to the question, why the scene was treated as a HazMat situation - what could LE see, hear or smell that informed them to take extreme precautions?