CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #5

[Yvettea]

Another thing about this couple, beyond homes and rental properties, JG and EC were not your average family roaming around the Sierra Nevada on a Sunday morning hike IMO something of which LE are well aware. They were not likely to lose their way [no shame in that] or to be easily dismissed. MOO

ETA []

 

[SophieRose]

After a year of Covid and childbirth, and a few years of rental property investment, they could still be learning. No shame in that. These are big wild spaces.

One of the ski resorts advertised something like this briefly in Mar 2020 "Come enjoy some covid free Sierra air," before everything was closed down. Outdoors has been one of the best places to be, not even heavy outdoors, just fresh air (when there aren't fires.)

 

[RedHaus]

well, well, well. if you're using Google Maps (I know, I know it's not a hiker's map.) look what Hites Cove Rd turns into . . .

Yes, yes, yes.... That is what I discovered as well when putting together that map that I will NOT post again here...

Hites Cove OHV Trail is actually a turn off of Hites Cove Road... and Hites Cove Road technically turns into Savage-Lundy Trail. It is near this turn off where they parked.

I think that is why some of us are so anal about differentiating Hites Cove OHV Trail from Hites Cove Road. To me, they are distinctly different.

That said, we have the benefit of weeks of looking at many different map apps from all different angles, filtered by all sorts of bright minds... JG and EC sadly did not.

 

[rahod1]

.

That said, we have the benefit of weeks of looking at many different map apps from all different angles, filtered by all sorts of bright minds... JG and EC sadly did not.

First, I'd like to thank you for those awesome annotated maps you provided. KUDOS!!
So what you have stated begs the question>>> Had they had the views of these maps (and we don't know that they didn't to some degree), would they have taken a different hike, avoiding this tragedy?
I suspect (MOO) that JG had some notion of what they wanted to do and that entailed completing the loop. Just my hunch. That doesn't mean he knew what the *reality* of this hike would be like because (MOO) he never had actually taken this hike start to finish. I keep pounding the table on one thought I can't shake>>>At what point in this hike did they realize they were in trouble? Certainly (MOO), it would have been well before the point at which they were found. The reason I say this is that we have TWO *canaries in the coal mine* on board. The infant and the pet dog. They were by FAR the most vulnerable to the rising oppressive HEAT from the get go and would manifest signs of distress early. I would venture to say as early as 1 HR into this hike. One thing we know for certain, they knew what turning around would be like and they didn't know what it would it be like forging ahead. Unfortunately, we know the outcome, MOO

 

[Yvettea]

A rugged view exposed by the Ferguson Fire of 2018.

 

[5W's]

Have not seen what has been posted in the last few days but hopefully can today. From what we are aware the family was seen in the parking lot at 7:45AM that Sunday morning in their vehicle (from what I recall being in the vehicle.) That's the only confirmed sighting of them after that we don't know what happened. The footprints that LE/SAR found matching the family's could have been made on another day during cooler temperatures. The footprints in my mind are a bit ambiguous so its hard to judge. Anyways, if that was the case that the family made those footprints on another day then it begs the question why was the family found deceased where it was eventually found? If they left the vehicle say a little after they were reportedly seen at 7:45AM then they should have been found further away from their vehicle (IMO.) The reason is that the temperature wasn't dangerously high. So they could have leisurely walked farther. It just doesn't make sense where they were found in such a condition as they were found. Could it be they ran to where they were found deceased? Why would they run from fear of something (mountain lion?) or someone chasing them, IDK. Did they succumb to the heat and possible shock where they were found. But then there were no tracks of anyone else or animals for that matter. Puzzling for sure. Another thing I wonder about is Oski's paws. Were they damaged by the heat or not (remember the SAR/LE dogs had to do short stints so their paws didn't get damaged.) It would be telling so we or LE could surmise that they walked a long distance in the heat. But (AFAIK) I haven't heard anything about Oski's paws being damaged. So this is also puzzling. Could he be carried and for how long? More questions than answers.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Yes, yes, yes.... That is what I discovered as well when putting together that map that I will NOT post again here...

Hites Cove OHV Trail is actually a turn off of Hites Cove Road... and Hites Cove Road technically turns into Savage-Lundy Trail. It is near this turn off where they parked.

I think that is why some of us are so anal about differentiating Hites Cove OHV Trail from Hites Cove Road. To me, they are distinctly different.

That said, we have the benefit of weeks of looking at many different map apps from all different angles, filtered by all sorts of bright minds... JG and EC sadly did not.

I am also ‘anal’ about the maps and have spent hours looking at them. I think I know the area like the palm of my hand now.
Why are we saying that Jon and Ellen are less likely to have the same opportunities to look at different maps as we have? Why is anyone assuming they didn’t take all the precautions required? They were both highly intelligent people. I believe they knew the area very well and were regular hikers. They would definitely have known the risks involved in doing the alleged ‘loop’. They would undoubtedly have done the research required -especially if they were considering taking Miju and Oski. I don’t find the maps or the names confusing at all.
The only thing that is unbelievable to me is why they would have undertaken this hike in the first place with Miju and Oski. The trail from Hites Cove Road to Hite Cove would not be easy even first thing in the morning. The trail from Hite Cove to Savage Lundy looks barely traversable to any individual (on the Google earth satellite) let alone two adults, a baby and a dog. Maybe, as others have said, they misjudged it and decided on an alternative return home.

Hites Cove Road is listed as a ‘trail’ on some of the apps. If they just wanted to test out their backpack they merely needed to walk from their home, along Hites Cove Road to the trailhead at SL, look at the desolation, and walk back home again. There must be another reason why they would drive to the place where they parked their vehicle and then take the trail towards Hite Cove via Marble Point. It doesn’t make any sense. MOO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Have not seen what has been posted in the last few days but hopefully can today. From what we are aware the family was seen in the parking lot at 7:45AM that Sunday morning in their vehicle (from what I recall being in the vehicle.) That's the only confirmed sighting of them after that we don't know what happened. The footprints that LE/SAR found matching the family's could have been made on another day during cooler temperatures. The footprints in my mind are a bit ambiguous so its hard to judge. Anyways, if that was the case that the family made those footprints on another day then it begs the question why was the family found deceased where it was eventually found? If they left the vehicle say a little after they were reportedly seen at 7:45AM then they should have been found further away from their vehicle (IMO.) The reason is that the temperature wasn't dangerously high. So they could have leisurely walked farther. It just doesn't make sense where they were found in such a condition as they were found. Could it be they ran to where they were found deceased? Why would they run from fear of something (mountain lion?) or someone chasing them, IDK. Did they succumb to the heat and possible shock where they were found. But then there were no tracks of anyone else or animals for that matter. Puzzling for sure. Another thing I wonder about is Oski's paws. Were they damaged by the heat or not (remember the SAR/LE dogs had to do short stints so their paws didn't get damaged.) It would be telling so we or LE could surmise that they walked a long distance in the heat. But (AFAIK) I haven't heard anything about Oski's paws being damaged. So this is also puzzling. Could he be carried and for how long? More questions than answers.

BBM
LE believe they walked approximately 7 miles of an 8.5 mile loop.

Can you link your source that says they didn’t find other tracks and that the SAR dogs worked short stints? It sounds right, but I’d like to read more about it.

 

[Yvettea]

I am also ‘anal’ about the maps and have spent hours looking at them. I think I know the area like the palm of my hand now.
Why are we saying that Jon and Ellen are less likely to have the same opportunities to look at different maps as we have? Why is anyone assuming they didn’t take all the precautions required? They were both highly intelligent people. I believe they knew the area very well and were regular hikers. They would definitely have known the risks involved in doing the alleged ‘loop’. They would undoubtedly have done the research required -especially if they were considering taking Miju and Oski. I don’t find the maps or the names confusing at all.
The only thing that is unbelievable to me is why they would have undertaken this hike in the first place with Miju and Oski. The trail from Hites Cove Road to Hite Cove would not be easy even first thing in the morning. The trail from Hite Cove to Savage Lundy looks barely traversable to any individual (on the Google earth satellite) let alone two adults, a baby and a dog. Maybe, as others have said, they misjudged it and decided on an alternative return home.

Hites Cove Road is listed as a ‘trail’ on some of the apps. If they just wanted to test out their backpack they merely needed to walk from their home, along Hites Cove Road to the trailhead at SL, look at the desolation, and walk back home again. There must be another reason why they would drive to the place where they parked their vehicle and then take the trail towards Hite Cove via Marble Point. It doesn’t make any sense. MOO

Marble Pt looks like a good vantage point. Maybe they stopped to enjoy the view or survey the area. They could probably see quite a distance from there since the vegetation had burned in 2018.

 

[Yvettea]

Mariposa Trails maintains the South Fork Trail - Sims Cove Segment and describes its current condition: Hiking this trail from June through September, or when the temperature is hot (generally above 80-degrees Feirenhit), is NOT advised. Of the entire South Fork Trail, this segment was in the worst shape. Thanks to the work of a CCC (probably Civilian Conservation Corps) crew in April/May 2021, this segment is now in great shape.

Mariposa Trails

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

. . .Why are we saying that Jon and Ellen are less likely to have the same opportunities to look at different maps as we have? Why is anyone assuming they didn’t take all the precautions required? . . .

Because they are dead. That's the sad and only answer I have. I am retired. I can research maps until the cows come home. Jon had a full-time, 24/7 demanding job. He was a landlord. He had friends and family all over the world to keep in touch with. He was a new dad. He had Ellen to keep happy, as husbands must. There was Covid AND the adjustment of living in isolation in a rural, remote community.

(I really like @RedHaus and others' theories of Jon researching the mines. That seems like what you would do in your spare time. )

I will always believe, until proven otherwise, this was a spontaneous walk, ill-planned and risky, in the cloud of new parenthood and other distractions. That it was taken without fully understanding the area weather or trails. Perhaps in the way we tend to treat our own neighborhood more cavalierly than a strange place.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Postcard from Google Earth


Google Earth
#googleearth

I’m finding all the maps posted are helpful, especially if we’re referring to one specific area.

ETA: I may have missed it, but can you post a googleearth link to the area where you’re not finding a trail on their possible route? I’m trying to follow, but not seeing it. (I’m not very familiar with the area).

 

[RedHaus]

At what point in this hike did they realize they were in trouble?

...if that was the case that the family made those footprints on another day then it begs the question why was the family found deceased where it was eventually found?

There must be another reason why they would drive to the place where they parked their vehicle and then take the trail towards Hite Cove via Marble Point. It doesn’t make any sense. MOO

All Quotes RSBM

Despite all my sleuthing about maps, trails, mines, JG's music, etc. these questions still bother me too. I'd like so much to rest my hat on heatstroke from a hike gone wrong. But the little data we have in hand just does not yet add up for me. That could simply mean we are missing key data that is not yet public. Or it could mean this is a more complex case than meets the eyes. When I let my mind ponder the WHYs you all (and others) keep asking, the Dyatlov Pass Incident comes to mind.

Decades later, people still debate what happened in Siberia. Like that mystery, I wonder if decades from now people will still debate what happened in the Sierras.
Dyatlov Pass incident - Wikipedia

Anyhow, I'll let my freak flag fly and share my thoughts re: each of your questions. All IMO!

@rahod1: I postulated in early threads, based on veterinarian and EMT sleuther input, the family likely realized they were in trouble in 30 minutes from the start. I believe this because of the extreme ambient heat early on, the relentless added heat of the sun, and the added heat effect from exposed soil and canyon walls; and because Oski would have, in my mind, exhibited signs of great distress (burning paws, panting heavily) early on and Miju would likely have been the most vulnerable.

@5W's: I still contend, as I did very early on, the family might have headed straight down the Savage-Lundy trail that morning and never made it beyond where they were found. I also think whatever prints were examined by LE as part of their investigation end up inconclusive because:

1) SAR's work on the trails to find and recover the bodies on Tuesday and Wednesday (with presumably no suspicion of anything nefarious at the time),
2) the storm cells OPs documented that went through late on Sunday - presumably dropping some rain and perhaps with winds strong enough to shift dirt, and
3) Since they lived near by, there is a distinct possibility the family was on one or more of the same trails a prior time and left behind some prints.​

@Pumphouse363: I agree - it doesn't make sense to me still either. Despite all my research efforts, I still can't fathom why the family was anywhere near those trails on that day. And this is why I believe there remains a possibility of this being a homicide case, whereby members of the family were sadly victims to foul play.

All IMO!

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

well, well, well. if you're using Google Maps (I know, I know it's not a hiker's map.) look what Hites Cove Rd turns into . . .

Good find!

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Because they are dead. That's the sad and only answer I have. I am retired. I can research maps until the cows come home. Jon had a full-time, 24/7 demanding job. He was a landlord. He had friends and family all over the world to keep in touch with. He was a new dad. He had Ellen to keep happy, as husbands must. There was Covid AND the adjustment of living in isolation in a rural, remote community.

(I really like @RedHaus and others' theories of Jon researching the mines. That seems like what you would do in your spare time. )

I will always believe, until proven otherwise, this was a spontaneous walk, ill-planned and risky, in the cloud of new parenthood and other distractions. That it was taken without fully understanding the area weather or trails. Perhaps in the way we tend to treat our own neighborhood more cavalierly than a strange place.

I find this quite plausible, esp given his interest in mines on his AT and EC posting about spontaneous hikes on IG. They may simply have underestimated the heat and overestimated their ability to cope with it. The Gobi tour and years at BM may have given them a false sense of security re: heat so it did not factor in as heavily as it might for others. Once they were at the bottom of the canyon there were no easy/quick ways out. I think, like Kreycik, they were moving quickly and by the time the emergency registered they were out of reach to get to help quickly. The elevation out of Devil's Gulch on ANY trail is significant and would be a risk of heat exhaustion which can quickly become heat stroke with the temps that day. MOO.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Because they are dead. That's the sad and only answer I have. I am retired. I can research maps until the cows come home. Jon had a full-time, 24/7 demanding job. He was a landlord. He had friends and family all over the world to keep in touch with. He was a new dad. He had Ellen to keep happy, as husbands must. There was Covid AND the adjustment of living in isolation in a rural, remote community.

(I really like @RedHaus and others' theories of Jon researching the mines. That seems like what you would do in your spare time. )

I will always believe, until proven otherwise, this was a spontaneous walk, ill-planned and risky, in the cloud of new parenthood and other distractions. That it was taken without fully understanding the area weather or trails. Perhaps in the way we tend to treat our own neighborhood more cavalierly than a strange place.

I try to see it from your point of view - I really want to do that. But you only need to look at the 3D view of the whole area on GOOGLE maps - I have it on my large TV screen - to know that nobody in their right mind would go for a Sunday morning walk on the HC Trail or the SL trail with their daughter and their dog in the heat of summer. It’s ridiculous!
Yes, Jonathan was busy but he’d only just returned to working after four months paternity leave! He worked from home. He had a business manager looking after the rentals. Ellen was studying - they hired a nanny for Miju. They were living the dream!
I’m sure if they had time to research the mines in the area, they would have time to research the terrain and the weather outlook. They were doting first-time parents, they lived on Hites Cove Road, they’d been in and around the area for at least four years. They’d moved to Mariposa from San Francisco at the start of the pandemic in early 2020.
We don’t actually have concrete evidence of when or where they were last seen or spoken to. The backpack could have been uploaded by anyone and the witness only identified the vehicle at 7.45 not the people inside it.
I really hope this tragedy is as you say, ‘a spontaneous walk, ill-planned and risky’ but new parents, especially mature parents and their first child, are far too protective to take risks like that. MOO

 

[Pumphouse363]

Mariposa Trails maintains the South Fork Trail - Sims Cove Segment and describes its current condition: Hiking this trail from June through September, or when the temperature is hot (generally above 80-degrees Feirenhit), is NOT advised. Of the entire South Fork Trail, this segment was in the worst shape. Thanks to the work of a CCC (probably Civilian Conservation Corps) crew in April/May 2021, this segment is now in great shape.

Mariposa Trails

Yes thanks for posting, I read that too - I’m sure family members will want to check that out when they arrive.

 

[Pumphouse363]

I find this quite plausible, esp given his interest in mines on his AT and EC posting about spontaneous hikes on IG. They may simply have underestimated the heat and overestimated their ability to cope with it. The Gobi tour and years at BM may have given them a false sense of security re: heat so it did not factor in as heavily as it might for others. Once they were at the bottom of the canyon there were no easy/quick ways out. I think, like Kreycik, they were moving quickly and by the time the emergency registered they were out of reach to get to help quickly. The elevation out of Devil's Gulch on ANY trail is significant and would be a risk of heat exhaustion which can quickly become heat stroke with the temps that day. MOO.

Yes I agree with you they may have overestimated their own abilities - but not their baby and their dog. MOO

 

[Pumphouse363]

All Quotes RSBM

Despite all my sleuthing about maps, trails, mines, JG's music, etc. these questions still bother me too. I'd like so much to rest my hat on heatstroke from a hike gone wrong. But the little data we have in hand just does not yet add up for me. That could simply mean we are missing key data that is not yet public. Or it could mean this is a more complex case than meets the eyes. When I let my mind ponder the WHYs you all (and others) keep asking, the Dyatlov Pass Incident comes to mind.

Decades later, people still debate what happened in Siberia. Like that mystery, I wonder if decades from now people will still debate what happened in the Sierras.
Dyatlov Pass incident - Wikipedia

Anyhow, I'll let my freak flag fly and share my thoughts re: each of your questions. All IMO!

@rahod1: I postulated in early threads, based on veterinarian and EMT sleuther input, the family likely realized they were in trouble in 30 minutes from the start. I believe this because of the extreme ambient heat early on, the relentless added heat of the sun, and the added heat effect from exposed soil and canyon walls; and because Oski would have, in my mind, exhibited signs of great distress (burning paws, panting heavily) early on and Miju would likely have been the most vulnerable.

@5W's: I still contend, as I did very early on, the family might have headed straight down the Savage-Lundy trail that morning and never made it beyond where they were found. I also think whatever prints were examined by LE as part of their investigation end up inconclusive because:

1) SAR's work on the trails to find and recover the bodies on Tuesday and Wednesday (with presumably no suspicion of anything nefarious at the time),
2) the storm cells OPs documented that went through late on Sunday - presumably dropping some rain and perhaps with winds strong enough to shift dirt, and
3) Since they lived near by, there is a distinct possibility the family was on one or more of the same trails a prior time and left behind some prints.​

@Pumphouse363: I agree - it doesn't make sense to me still either. Despite all my research efforts, I still can't fathom why the family was anywhere near those trails on that day. And this is why I believe there remains a possibility of this being a homicide case, whereby members of the family were sadly victims to foul play.

All IMO!

Thank you for your detailed response. I concur with everything you surmise. Now all we need to do is discover the motive.

 

[NSamuelle]

I am *not* saying this involved suicide, but it’s confusing to me that they ruled out suicide and not homicide. The only difference between homicide and suicide is intent, and I imagine that’s very hard to evaluate. With a gun shot, they can look at trajectory, etc., and conclude homicide not suicide, but any viable homicide theory in this case would likely involve poison - and how can you determine how that was administered so as to rule out suicide but not homicide?

IMO, MOO, the fact that they haven’t released tox on the water they were carrying (even to say “it’s clear - it’s ruled out”) makes me suspect that is involved in the COD.

Water testing typically takes 4-6 weeks, and it has been nearly 8 weeks. If the results are unremarkable, why not release them? How long does testing take?