Found Safe UK - Antonino Coppola, 23, from Richmond, Surrey, missing from Bow, East London, 16 Sep 2021

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LucyRocket said:
I feel like I'm more curious about AC's companion at this point. Whatever he's told officers about their conversation, and the onset of the illness, would be significant to where we go from here.
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Absolutely. He was the last person that we know who saw AC before he disappeared and who knew AC.

The detail he provides, filling in the gaps, the 5WH (Who, When, Where, Why, What, How) and the officers assessment of his reliability and credibility are vital components in the investigation. Was C being full and frank or was he being cautious and omitting detail?
 
And I think from there, there are 3 possible scenarios;

1. He's honest and everything was genuine, to him

2. He was in collusion with AC for him to disappear and has provided a cover for him

3. He became a threat to AC, and AC made a reason to get away from him
 
LucyRocket said:
And I think from there, there are 3 possible scenarios;

1. He's honest and everything was genuine, to him

2. He was in collusion with AC for him to disappear and has provided a cover for him

3. He became a threat to AC, and AC made a reason to get away from him
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Can I add one?

4. That AC acted unilaterally but C shared the concerns and is also fearful. Unilateral action may be to avoid C being implicated in supporting AC's disappearance.
 
So what are the facts in this case. Sadly with all the ideas that have been flying around, they remain substantially the same, but after 27 pages of the thread they could stand another airing. I'd be really grateful if Sleuthers can add any proper facts that can be verified from news reports or video captures, because I make no secret that I'm too lazy to trawl through those 27 pages.

On 16 September 2001, a 23 year old Italian national, resident in Richmond, Surrey is travelling on London Underground District Line with a younger companion [20] of the same nationality. They have with them a number of suitcases, as they are changing residence. The older man starts to feel unwell as they approach Bow Road Station, and the pair disembark with their suitcases. The older guy instructs the younger, who is unfamiliar with London, to remain in the station with the luggage while he looks for a public convenience, not an easy task in post-lockdown London.
We know he takes the escalator and exits the station, he vomits just outside, then turns right, when nothing more is seen of him.
Meanwhile, the younger guy waits patiently with the luggage for some time, before calling the Italian family of the older man and then the police.

That was the case September 16, and it remains substantially the case today.

We have no indication about his mental state, but it does appear that he was ill. We have no reliable indication of his background, except that he was a native Italian, resident in London for three years and working as a waiter. After nearly a month, we don't know his prior address, or the address of his destination, or the contents of his suitcases or whether he was carrying his ID in the backpack shown on CCTV. It seems to me we know diddly-squat that's verifiable.
 
I have seen some information on facebook appeals about tattoos he has, and where they are located on his body, but I don’t think I have seen that anywhere that can be linked here as fact. I am at work so can’t google this at the moment.
 
FOXINBOX said:
So what are the facts in this case. Sadly with all the ideas that have been flying around, they remain substantially the same, but after 27 pages of the thread they could stand another airing. I'd be really grateful if Sleuthers can add any proper facts that can be verified from news reports or video captures, because I make no secret that I'm too lazy to trawl through those 27 pages.

On 16 September 2001, a 23 year old Italian national, resident in Richmond, Surrey is travelling on London Underground District Line with a younger companion [20] of the same nationality. They have with them a number of suitcases, as they are changing residence. The older man starts to feel unwell as they approach Bow Road Station, and the pair disembark with their suitcases. The older guy instructs the younger, who is unfamiliar with London, to remain in the station with the luggage while he looks for a public convenience, not an easy task in post-lockdown London.
We know he takes the escalator and exits the station, he vomits just outside, then turns right, when nothing more is seen of him.
Meanwhile, the younger guy waits patiently with the luggage for some time, before calling the Italian family of the older man and then the police.

That was the case September 16, and it remains substantially the case today.

We have no indication about his mental state, but it does appear that he was ill. We have no reliable indication of his background, except that he was a native Italian, resident in London for three years and working as a waiter. After nearly a month, we don't know his prior address, or the address of his destination, or the contents of his suitcases or whether he was carrying his ID in the backpack shown on CCTV. It seems to me we know diddly-squat that's verifiable.
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Some of the info that AC’s mum provided on live TV can be taken as facts IMO, eg. AC was asthmatic (we don’t know to what degree but he used an inhaler); he went to live in Australia before he turned 19; he was in touch with his parents everyday. For translations of relevant tv broadcasts, links to Italian and English MSM, police appeals etc, please refer to UK - Antonino Coppola, 23, London, 16 Sept 2021 ** MEDIA, TIMELINE - NO DISCUSSION**
 
Jenesaisquoi said:
I have seen some information on facebook appeals about tattoos he has, and where they are located on his body, but I don’t think I have seen that anywhere that can be linked here as fact. I am at work so can’t google this at the moment.
Click to expand...
For details of AC’s tattoos, see Mirror interview with his mum Mum's desperate plea to find son, 23, who vanished after getting off London tube

“He has different tattoos on him, including Homer Simpson on his left thigh, one of the Lion King on an ankle and his birthplace, Positano, on his other one.

He also has a world tattoed on his arm and was wearing his grandparents' wedding ring when he went missing. It has 'Antonino 12.12.59' engraved on the inside.”
 
FOXINBOX said:
So what are the facts in this case. Sadly with all the ideas that have been flying around, they remain substantially the same, but after 27 pages of the thread they could stand another airing. I'd be really grateful if Sleuthers can add any proper facts that can be verified from news reports or video captures, because I make no secret that I'm too lazy to trawl through those 27 pages.

On 16 September 2001, a 23 year old Italian national, resident in Richmond, Surrey is travelling on London Underground District Line with a younger companion [20] of the same nationality. They have with them a number of suitcases, as they are changing residence. The older man starts to feel unwell as they approach Bow Road Station, and the pair disembark with their suitcases. The older guy instructs the younger, who is unfamiliar with London, to remain in the station with the luggage while he looks for a public convenience, not an easy task in post-lockdown London.
We know he takes the escalator and exits the station, he vomits just outside, then turns right, when nothing more is seen of him.
Meanwhile, the younger guy waits patiently with the luggage for some time, before calling the Italian family of the older man and then the police.

That was the case September 16, and it remains substantially the case today.

We have no indication about his mental state, but it does appear that he was ill. We have no reliable indication of his background, except that he was a native Italian, resident in London for three years and working as a waiter. After nearly a month, we don't know his prior address, or the address of his destination, or the contents of his suitcases or whether he was carrying his ID in the backpack shown on CCTV. It seems to me we know diddly-squat that's verifiable.
Click to expand...

I would say that after four weeks, 27 pages of speculation is no more than a very modest start.
 
FOXINBOX said:
So what are the facts in this case. Sadly with all the ideas that have been flying around, they remain substantially the same, but after 27 pages of the thread they could stand another airing. I'd be really grateful if Sleuthers can add any proper facts that can be verified from news reports or video captures, because I make no secret that I'm too lazy to trawl through those 27 pages.

On 16 September 2001, a 23 year old Italian national, resident in Richmond, Surrey is travelling on London Underground District Line with a younger companion [20] of the same nationality. They have with them a number of suitcases, as they are changing residence. The older man starts to feel unwell as they approach Bow Road Station, and the pair disembark with their suitcases. The older guy instructs the younger, who is unfamiliar with London, to remain in the station with the luggage while he looks for a public convenience, not an easy task in post-lockdown London.
We know he takes the escalator and exits the station, he vomits just outside, then turns right, when nothing more is seen of him.
Meanwhile, the younger guy waits patiently with the luggage for some time, before calling the Italian family of the older man and then the police.

That was the case September 16, and it remains substantially the case today.

We have no indication about his mental state, but it does appear that he was ill. We have no reliable indication of his background, except that he was a native Italian, resident in London for three years and working as a waiter. After nearly a month, we don't know his prior address, or the address of his destination, or the contents of his suitcases or whether he was carrying his ID in the backpack shown on CCTV. It seems to me we know diddly-squat that's verifiable.
Click to expand...

And fwiw his friend has said that he had his wallet, phone and passport in his backpack.
 
FOXINBOX said:
On 16 September 2001, a 23 year old Italian national, resident in Richmond, Surrey is travelling on London Underground District Line with a younger companion [20] of the same nationality.
Click to expand...
Whilst Richmond police has been dealing with the case, we don’t know if AC lived/had lived in Richmond. Putney is mentioned here Antonino - Missing People

Also, it not a fact that AC’s friend was new to London, as reported in some early news coverage. As his exact age has not been confirmed, AC’s friend may well be older.
 
FOXINBOX said:
So what are the facts in this case. Sadly with all the ideas that have been flying around, they remain substantially the same, but after 27 pages of the thread they could stand another airing. I'd be really grateful if Sleuthers can add any proper facts that can be verified from news reports or video captures, because I make no secret that I'm too lazy to trawl through those 27 pages.

On 16 September 2001, a 23 year old Italian national, resident in Richmond, Surrey is travelling on London Underground District Line with a younger companion [20] of the same nationality. They have with them a number of suitcases, as they are changing residence. The older man starts to feel unwell as they approach Bow Road Station, and the pair disembark with their suitcases. The older guy instructs the younger, who is unfamiliar with London, to remain in the station with the luggage while he looks for a public convenience, not an easy task in post-lockdown London.
We know he takes the escalator and exits the station, he vomits just outside, then turns right, when nothing more is seen of him.
Meanwhile, the younger guy waits patiently with the luggage for some time, before calling the Italian family of the older man and then the police.

That was the case September 16, and it remains substantially the case today.

We have no indication about his mental state, but it does appear that he was ill. We have no reliable indication of his background, except that he was a native Italian, resident in London for three years and working as a waiter. After nearly a month, we don't know his prior address, or the address of his destination, or the contents of his suitcases or whether he was carrying his ID in the backpack shown on CCTV. It seems to me we know diddly-squat that's verifiable.
Click to expand...


And it is 4 weeks today since he disappeared, and it appears little more is known since that day - that the police have publicly revealed at least.

I would say with this 'vomiting' we have not been told how severe it was. It could have been a mild hawking up of bile and spit, if he was highly stressed or nervous about something, or a full stomach contents if he had ingested something or was suffering from something like food poisoning.

I don't think we know he took the escalator - is there even one at that station? - and it looks like stairs to me. Plus, unless CCTV shows more, he doesn't look particularly ill to me, certainly not in a clutching-stomach-about-to-collapse kind of way.

From the station description, no escalator:

Leaving the station – You must use two flights of stairs between the platforms and the exit (19 steps up +11 steps up from the eastbound platform, and 2x16 steps up from the westbound platform)
 
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It has gone very quiet -no media reports, no more appeals from the family? Could this mean there is some sort of development? Wonder if there has been some activity on his card/phone, or perhaps someone has come forward.

I am leaning towards the theory that he was suffering with an anxiety attack and just needed to get off the train and out into the fresh air. Vomiting is a common symptom of anxiety. The asthma attack the week before could also have been anxiety - hyperventilating as a reaction to fear setting off his asthma.

It is a peculiar coincidence that he seems to fall ill on tube journeys. He may have been struggling with panic attacks for a while, but not told/felt uncomfortable talking to his friends about it. The looking around after he vomits, I think could be a result of him feeling embarrassed and a bit scared by the physical symptoms.

Anyway - just MOO etc
 
MsMiniSleuth said:
And it is 4 weeks today since he disappeared, and it appears little more is known since that day - that the police have publicly revealed at least.

I would say with this 'vomiting' we have not been told how severe it was. It could have been a mild hawking up of bile and spit, if he was highly stressed or nervous about something, or a full stomach contents if he had ingested something or was suffering from something like food poisoning.

I don't think we know he took the escalator - is there even one at that station? - and it looks like stairs to me. Plus, unless CCTV shows more, he doesn't look particularly ill to me, certainly not in a clutching-stomach-about-to-collapse kind of way.

From the station description, no escalator:

Leaving the station – You must use two flights of stairs between the platforms and the exit (19 steps up +11 steps up from the eastbound platform, and 2x16 steps up from the westbound platform)
Click to expand...

This TfL document confirms no escalator or lift at Bow Road:

Avoiding Stairs Tube Guide (tfl.gov.uk)

I agree he doesn't look ill. However, he looks wide eyed and serious, although from a snapshot that perception has little credibility.

I suspect the actual CCTV video would provide a very interesting view of his body language and whether he looks physically ill or demonstrates behaviour of being or anxious/fearful.
 
Loopysnoop said:
It has gone very quiet -no media reports, no more appeals from the family? Could this mean there is some sort of development? Wonder if there has been some activity on his card/phone, or perhaps someone has come forward.

I am leaning towards the theory that he was suffering with an anxiety attack and just needed to get off the train and out into the fresh air. Vomiting is a common symptom of anxiety. The asthma attack the week before could also have been anxiety - hyperventilating as a reaction to fear setting off his asthma.

It is a peculiar coincidence that he seems to fall ill on tube journeys. He may have been struggling with panic attacks for a while, but not told/felt uncomfortable talking to his friends about it. The looking around after he vomits, I think could be a result of him feeling embarrassed and a bit scared by the physical symptoms.

Anyway - just MOO etc
Click to expand...

I know from personal experience that being crammed into the tube in the rush hour can be extremely hot and claustrophobic and it could easily make one want to get off and get out of the station to the street.

However, AC had travelled from a station near the start of the District Line in the west, possibly Richmond (terminus) and travelled all the way across London to his penultimate stop.

I feel that if he was feeling such anxiety then the need to escape would have come a lot sooner, when in the busiest central sections, which are underground.

MOO
 
AcbMurders said:
Whilst Richmond police has been dealing with the case, we don’t know if AC lived/had lived in Richmond. Putney is mentioned here Antonino - Missing People

Also, it not a fact that AC’s friend was new to London, as reported in some early news coverage. As his exact age has not been confirmed, AC’s friend may well be older.
Click to expand...

It will be within the Richmond section of the Metropolitan Police South West Basic Command Unit, which covers the London Boroughs of Richmond, Kingston, Merton and Wandsworth. So it is safe to say that AC was last known to be living with the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames, but not necessarily in Richmond centre.

Additional confusion is caused by the fact that a property on a boundary may fall within the Richmond section but have a Putney postal address, which stems from where mail is sent to be sorted before delivery. This is where the Putney element may have crept in.

MOO
 
Whitehall 1212 said:
I feel that if he was feeling such anxiety then the need to escape would have come a lot sooner, when in the busiest central sections, which are underground.
Click to expand...

It's certainly a long journey and at that time of day - particularly by the time they arrived at Bow Road, I imagine the train wouldn't be too horribly packed. And it was so close to his destination too. Maybe he battled the fear all through the city stops and as soon as the train started to go above ground, decided to get off as no lengthy escalator rides to endure before reaching ground level?

The other thing I considered, which is more serious (and harder to read if you are a family member, so apologies for my speculation, but I do think this is worth mentioning) is that he may have been having a psychotic episode and needed to escape from voices/perception that he was being followed/heard "instructions" that he must escape from his friend and hide. Vomiting is not an uncommon symptom during a psychotic episode. Again, the looking around thing could be a sign that he was feeling paranoid. MOO etc
 
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