CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #5

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That would not lead them back to the truck.

That’s right and there’s nothing we’ve been told that indicates JG and EC even considered hiking toward 140 although it is known that it’s downstream, no elevation gain, (as has been mentioned before) versus Savage Lundy that sounds undesirable here:

Hiking on the Savage Lundy Trail | Sierra News Online
  • would not want to do this hike on a warm day
  • not for everyone
  • overgrown in places with chemise
  • had to part the brush to get through in places
  • poison oak
  • ticks
  • gnats were out
  • SNAKEY
  • saw plenty of coyote, bobcat and bear scat on the trail
As well as 3.5 mi with 2000’ elevation gain.

One way to understand is they wandered down a familiar sounding trail, hiked into heat they didn’t anticipate, sorta stumbled across Savage Lundy trail which they knew nothing about and hiked up 2 mi (1000’ elevation gain) until unfortunately they were both overcome with heat stroke. That is a possible explanation IMO. The trail did go to the same trailhead.

The sheriff is investigating, thoroughly JMO. I continue to hope we will have answers. But more than that I hope something will bring peace to the family, friends and community and shine a light on awareness of the hazards of hiking in extreme temperatures.
 
That’s right and there’s nothing we’ve been told that indicates JG and EC even considered hiking toward 140 although it is known that it’s downstream, no elevation gain, (as has been mentioned before) versus Savage Lundy that sounds undesirable here:

Hiking on the Savage Lundy Trail | Sierra News Online
  • would not want to do this hike on a warm day
  • not for everyone
  • overgrown in places with chemise
  • had to part the brush to get through in places
  • poison oak
  • ticks
  • gnats were out
  • SNAKEY
  • saw plenty of coyote, bobcat and bear scat on the trail
As well as 3.5 mi with 2000’ elevation gain.

One way to understand is they wandered down a familiar sounding trail, hiked into heat they didn’t anticipate, sorta stumbled across Savage Lundy trail which they knew nothing about and hiked up 2 mi (1000’ elevation gain) until unfortunately they were both overcome with heat stroke. That is a possible explanation IMO. The trail did go to the same trailhead.

The sheriff is investigating, thoroughly JMO. I continue to hope we will have answers. But more than that I hope something will bring peace to the family, friends and community and shine a light on awareness of the hazards of hiking in extreme temperatures.

Bottom line MOO>> Once they reached the bottom of HC Road past Marble Point to the river, they reached the point of no return. The temps were 90+ then and they were facing a 2 MI hike back up a steep trail in the heat. We know they succumbed 3.5 Mi later up SL , would this have made a difference between life and death?
 
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Bottom line MOO>> Once they reached the bottom of HC Road past Marble Point to the river, they reached the point of no return. The temps were 90+ then and they were facing a 2 MI hike back up a steep trail in the heat. We know they succumbed 3.5 Mi later up SL , would this have made a difference between life and death?

I think so if you put a wild card injury or illness onboard that may have taken place by the river. Increased load (possibly dog), or water resources to cool baby + quicker pace.
 
They ruled out violent homicide as in gunshot, stabbing, blunt force trauma of any sort.

But not all homicide. MOO
But they have ruled out suicide, right? If they've ruled out violent homicide, and if they've ruled out suicide, then what type of homicide could still be within the realm of possibility? If, for example, the police believed that intentional poisoning was still a possibility, how could suicide be ruled out?

It seems to me that the police have ruled out all forms of intentional killing, but let me know if I'm missing something.
 
I'm not at all suggesting they intended to go to hwy 140 to a trailhead.

What I was pondering was that perhaps they didn't realize there were so many variations of Hite/s Cove roads and trails. They obviously know Hites Cove Road as they have a home right there. They might have seen the reviews online for "Hites Cove Trail" as being rated easy and simply assumed that must be the trail off Hites Cove Road. I was speculating there might be road signs along HC Road indicating "two miles to trailhead" and not registered the specific trail names.

I know some folks have posted that they had been on these specific trails before but I have not seen that confirmed anywhere. And I don't think anyone has confirmed which specific trail JG searched online?

So all this is just speculation. I'm not even saying I think it's what happened, just trying to throw out ideas to see if any of them strike us as plausible.

With most cases I have followed on WS, I've seen wide ranges of speculation by posters, which only narrows once new information is released by LE or the media. That's what I expect to happen here. And while I haven't been on WS long enough to see cases go completely cold and unsolved, I know that also happens and is a possibility here too.
Theres only one Hites Cove trail , right? The other is a road. I don’t understand the confusion. Or are you saying there are two separate trails marked Hites Cove? About the time I think I have it figured out.... If U could please clarify. TIA
 
Theres only one Hites Cove trail , right? The other is a road. I don’t understand the confusion. Or are you saying there are two separate trails marked Hites Cove? About the time I think I have it figured out.... If U could please clarify. TIA
There are actually three trails that intersect at the old town of Hite Cove. Hite Cove trail is an east-west trail from 140 to Hite Cove. A north-south trail runs from 140 to Hite Cove; the name is Hite Mine Rd. And there is also the OHV trail that runs from Jerseydale to Hite Cove. It’s known as Hites Cove OHV rd.

Map of Hite Cove trail and Hite Mine trail found here:
Hiking from Indian Flat through Hite Cove | Sierra News Online
 
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There are actually three trails that intersect at the old town of Hite Cove. Hite Cove trail is an east-west trail from 140 to Hite Cove. A north-south trail runs from 140 to Hite Cove; the name is Hite Mine Rd. And there is also the OHV trail that runs from Jerseydale to Hite Cove. It’s known as Hites Cove OHV rd.
Thank you for being so helpful in clarifying this. Though I have looked at several maps, I don’t do well with geographics well if I can’t really “see” them. My iPad doesn’t do it for me. I will try to check it out tomorrow on our desk top, which has a larger screen.
 
I would say that it is common for a family member to get help for other family members, if they are able.
This was in reference to why they were all found in close proximity. Normally when someone can't go on, you would stop, render aid, and come up with a plan to get help, but in this case they were all afflicted by the heat. Stopping and rendering aid left them clustered together, they didn't abandon each other. So sad, but even sadder if they were found spaced far apart. MOO
 
I think whatever happened on the day they all died, the sheriffs department will come back with a COD - maybe today - that they all died of dehydration/heatstroke but, for me, no acceptable explanation as to why they were out there. MOO
 
Heat, confusion and frustration might lead to feelings of anger between loved ones, especially if there is a disagreement about the "right way" to proceed.

I'm NOT implying anything negative about their overall relationship, but show me a couple of human beings who don't have occasional "dust ups" while under stress.

Normal people in great relationships can react in less than helpful ways when emotions are running high.

Some shutdown, and cease communication, and maybe their stubborn streak comes to life. Others may become more animated and energized, and attack a problem much more aggressively.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've been in similar situations, and the behavior of both parties can effect the situation... Exponentially

Imo




MOO Let’s say just for the sake of discussion that JG and/or EC were familiar with the trail off 140 and knew/guessed it connected with HC OHV Rd. Why would you guess they didn’t continue on HC Rd. instead of “winging it” along the river?

MOO Let’s just say they took the south/east fork believing the trail lead down to the river at some point. But having limited water and having walked three miles or so by now wouldn’t most people turn around to hike back up? One trail or another you have to hike up ~2000’. So why do you continue on along the river another mile or so just looking for an unknown trail (3 mile as it turns out) back up? JG and EC knew and understood what they had hiked down. The temperatures were getting warmer. The day wore on. It could easily have been 10:00 or 11:00 am.

JMO It doesn’t seem like they would change their route for an unknown route unless there was something behind them that posed a threat something more than the steepness of the climb because they would be risking the well-being of their daughter and the family pet.

I’m not seeing it. IMO
 
RSBM


Correct.

“According to officials, the death of the family was not caused either by lightning strike, gun or any weapon, illegal drugs or alcohol, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, or cyanide exposure. Suicide has also been ruled out.”

More information released on family’s death on California hiking trail - The San Francisco Times
If the baby passed, (the dog most likely did not long after) , suicide by no longer trying to save oneself isn’t something that can be ruled in or out. As terrible as that is to think about, I still think it’s an unfortunate possibility.
 
And a road is wider than a trail, an obvious difference. And the trail heads are clearly marked, surely. I have doubts they mistook the road for the trail.

I have my own story about being too gung-ho on a hike. Our 6-7 y/o son was with us. Let’s just say back in the day, I was an ambitious hiker.
I’m not saying that’s what happened in this case at all, it’s just one remote possibility.
To answer myself, the trailheads where they were parked don’t seem to have been marked, though this was in 2015, so could have changed.
Also this is the Savage Lundy Trail , so I’m only assuming it would be same for Hites Cove .
Hiking on the Savage Lundy Trail | Sierra News Online

This picture shows the beginning of the trailhead and you wouldn’t really know it if you didn’t know where it was. It was a good trail though and easy to follow, although overgrown in areas where you would need to part the chemise sea of vegetation as you walked though a few sections.”

Lundy_3.JPG
 
Found your map @rahod1 . Thank you! Best one I’ve seen so far. It’s extremely helpful in aiding my understanding of the route they took that day.
Reposting .

Map

@neesaki If you find this map helpful, please know that the Savage-Lundy Trail (where they were found) isn't labeled. Where you see "Hite Cove" beside the little hiker guy is the Savage-Lundy Trail. The trails are accurate. The labeling is a bit misleading.
 
@neesaki If you find this map helpful, please know that the Savage-Lundy Trail (where they were found) isn't labeled. Where you see "Hite Cove" beside the little hiker guy is the Savage-Lundy Trail. The trails are accurate. The labeling is a bit misleading.
Yes, I saw that and did question it. Thank you for confirming what I was thinking.
 
I've loved poring over the official maps of MariposaTrails.org, the Upper Merced River Watershed Council, and others. It's taught me how difficult it is to navigate the area because of all the different jurisdictions: 2 different national forests, Bureau of Land Management (BLM), Yosemite National Park, Mariposa County. I've found multiple Hites Cove Roads and Hites Cove Trails. The Hites Cove Trail we've been discussing is actually in two different National Forests, which does not tend its trails according to MariposaTrails.org: ". . .only 25% of trails are being maintained by the US Forest Service; in Mariposa, none of the non-motorized forest service trails are being maintained by the forest service.

This shows how difficult it is to get accurate, clear information about any one of these trails, not to mention how to know which trails are in good shape or not. As we've learned, AllTrails is useless for this area.

Buried in the MariposaTrails.org website, I found this about the South Fork Trail: "Lastly, this canyon can get extremely hot in the late Spring, Summer and early fall, and is not recommended for use during these seasons." (bolding, me)

I'd never thought of the canyon and Merced River area being hotter than the trail! I'm not a hiker, and the idea of the canyon being lower seems to me it would be cooler but it's just the opposite. So if they'd hiked down and felt fine, the heat would have built and built so that in the canyon they'd suddenly be hit by it like a tidal wave. Is that right?
 
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