CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #6

[ItalyReader]

I was thinking about San Francisco this morning, due to my recent reflections on the values and lifestyle of that city, and an element of yoga came to mind: bikram yoga, also called “hot yoga”.

Ellen as a practitioner of yoga was surely familiar with Bikram yoga, where one sustains temperatures of 105 degrees for 90 minutes in a closed room while performing yoga.

She may or may not have been an expert in bikram yoga per se, but as a yoga person she surely had some level of familiarity or experience in it.

What if the weather forecast did not phase her because she was accustomed to those temps?
What if Jon had participated in a few of those classes with her? And he too was not phased?

It could be one reason that they thought it would be ok to hike in those same high temps.

This does not explain taking the baby and the dog because young children (let alone babies) should not participate in the temperatures of bikram.
Bikram Yoga for Kids — Bikram Yoga Nairobi

But perhaps it explains their lack of preoccupation about the high temps before setting out?

moo and truly just a theory

 

[HannahJJJ]

He said they were found in the dirt.

Pardon my ignorance, what do they mean by "dirt"? "Dirt" as opposed to simply "on the ground"? Found between JG and Ellen?

 

[ilovewings]

Thank you @bpeterson912 and @WillieMac for your thoughtful and kind posts about this tragedy. I’ve been trying to sort out my own feelings about what happened to this lovely couple, their sweet baby and their pup, and although I understand why good people here are angry…I really do!…I just feel incredibly sad that their lives ended, especially in such a horrific way. They weren’t the kind of people we see here on WS who have committed evil acts against someone defenseless. For my own peace of mind, I need to save my anger for those who do deliberate harm and for those who go through life selfishly only caring about themselves.

But IMO these two parents weren’t evil or malicious and obviously loved their daughter and their pup. They were definitely guilty of being unprepared, careless, unwise, even stupid, with maybe some hubris thrown in…and they paid the ultimate price, losing their own lives and killing their child and pet in the process. All for a hike on a hot day…a tragic series of miscalculations at every turn. So, while I get the anger, I’m just incredibly sad that they didn’t escape the consequences of their decisions, as many of us admittedly have. My heart goes out to their families and friends who will forever miss them and never understand how or why this happened to such smart and caring people.

I hope their unnecessary deaths will serve to educate everyone who loves the outdoors and save lives in the process. Many thanks to @RickshawFan and other outdoor experts and amateurs here who have educated all of us about being prepared. And I wish peace of mind to each one of us as we struggle with our very valid swirl of feelings about this heartbreaking tragedy. Hugs!

All MOO with total respect to those who feel differently.

I need a love icon for your post: so thoughtful and respectful!

 

[5W's]

Pardon my ignorance, what do they mean by "dirt"? "Dirt" as opposed to simply "on the ground"? Found between JG and Ellen?

That's a good question HannahJJJ. I also wonder about this.

 

[5W's]

Sorry in post #206 this thread I posted " HS or in other words heat exhaustion" I think heat exhaustion leads to heat stroke so my mistake. I should have just said heat stroke or HS. But my point remains the same though.

 

[5W's]

RSBM. I think this was addressed, albeit indirectly, in the PC. "Based on the condition of Oski's remains and evidence the investigators recovered on scene we believe Oski was also possibly suffering from heat related issues."

My question is more specific. IMO Oski would have collapsed not that long into the hike. Were his paws burnt? If not it doesn't make sense that he was able to continue in this condition of such extreme heat. I still think something happened early on in their hike that may have spooked them to continue.

 

[everybodhi]

snipped
I still think something happened early on in their hike that may have spooked them to continue.

..continue the route he researched and mapped out the night before, during an ongoing heatwave.

 

[5W's]

My question is more specific. IMO Oski would have collapsed not that long into the hike. Were his paws burnt? If not it doesn't make sense that he was able to continue in this condition of such extreme heat. I still think something happened early on in their hike that may have spooked them to continue.

Either they continued hiking or they didn't get far just upto the point they were found having walked from the parking lot shortly after arriving at the trailhead parking lot. I just cannot see Oski doing that hike in those conditions.

 

[Speculaytor]

I am a bit confused, and was hoping someone here could clarify something. We die at body temp of approximately 105 degrees, correct? So how could anyone exert themselves in environmental conditions over 100 degrees, and not succumb? Even sitting out in a 105 + degree environment, with no protection from the sun, WITHOUT exerting yourself would kill you after a certain amount of time, wouldn't it? And at some point, having enough water doesn't matter, hyperthermia sets in. Same idea when it is cold, hypothermia sets in and people succumb? Philip Kreycik went on a very challenging run in extreme heat and succumbed this past year. So incredibly tragic, praying these cases educate others who love the outdoors.

 

[neesaki]

Does anyone know about their keys? The press conference I came across was literally not very audible except when the Sherriff was speaking. Someone probably has posted the entire news conference here but I have to go back & look until I come across it. Still so many unanswered questions. As I mentioned on an earlier post I thought the outcome of the investigation was going to be such as this which is HS or heat exhaustion in other words. Their families are left asking "Why." I wonder if we'll get some sort of answer once the cell phone examination is completed by the FBI? The Sherriff said that Oski's test results are unknown or inconclusive but (I could be wrong here maybe they are still pending, forgive me) it is believed by LE that Oski also died of the heat. What about his paws were they burnt? If not that doesn't make sense to me. I don't think the condition the family was in that they could have been able to carry Oski. MOO. Oski would have collapsed a long time before if the hike the family is suggested as having done. Its not possible the elevation they climbed and the heat starting to get higher that Oski could continue. There is more to this than what has been concluded by the investigation IMO. Don't get me wrong LE has to work with what they have so its not on their part. So many questions!

I agree. There is more to this. Maybe the problem is that LE can’t say what the “more “ is, because it can’t be proven. I really hope the cell phone info. will shed some light on this terrible tragedy.

 

[ilovewings]

I agree. There is more to this. Maybe the problem is that LE can’t say what the “more “ is, because it can’t be proven. I really hope the cell phone info. will shed some light on this terrible tragedy.

Why does there have to be more? The explanation of how they died makes sense to me.

 

[MaryG12]

I cannot believe how far they walked in direct sun, in 100+ temperature. I took a walk with my dog the other day at 76 degrees, in full sun, no wind, 48% humidity. It was the constant sun on us that started to get real uncomfortable. I tried to imagine being in 99 degrees, and I couldn't. Then add the elevation and switchbacks. Such a tragedy. Horrible.

Sheriff says family on California hike died of extreme heat

I've experienced the same with Florida sun and humidity - felt like I was being baked in an oven.

Having said that, I wonder if any of the family members had sunburns on their bodies, or were they well covered with sunshield?

I don't even know that sunshield would protect for long hours.

 

[neesaki]

DPost

 

[neesaki]

Why does there have to be more? The explanation of how they died makes sense to me.

My post doesn’t say that. I agreed with 5w that there is more. Of course that is just my opinion. I guess what makes sense to one person, may not make sense to another. My apologies for the confusion. I hope this clears things up.

 

[everybodhi]

I am a bit confused, and was hoping someone here could clarify something. We die at body temp of approximately 105 degrees, correct? So how could anyone exert themselves in environmental conditions over 100 degrees, and not succumb? Even sitting out in a 105 + degree environment, with no protection from the sun, WITHOUT exerting yourself would kill you after a certain amount of time, wouldn't it? And at some point, having enough water doesn't matter, hyperthermia sets in. Same idea when it is cold, hypothermia sets in and people succumb? Philip Kreycik went on a very challenging run in extreme heat and succumbed this past year. So incredibly tragic, praying these cases educate others who love the outdoors.

Yes. This article is very long but there's alot of information here about heatwave related deaths this year.

Hidden Toll of the Northwest Heat Wave: Hundreds of Extra Deaths

Washington State has officially reported that 95 people died from heat-related causes during the week of the heat wave, but investigations are continuing. Oregon has confirmed 96 heat-related deaths so far.

But the states’ excess deaths figures — nearly 450 extra deaths in Washington, and nearly 160 in Oregon, which has a little more than half the population of its northern neighbor — suggest the official figures severely underestimate the heat wave’s effect on mortality.

Extreme heat disproportionately affects vulnerable populations, including older people, homeless people and those who work outdoors. Access to air-conditioning can be a life saver. A preliminary review of deaths during the heat wave in Multnomah County, Ore., which includes Portland, found that none of the 54 people who died had central air-conditioning.

An analysis made public last week reported a sharp rise in emergency department visits in the Pacific Northwest during the heat wave in late June. Between June 25 and June 30, nearly 3,000 emergency department visits were recorded for heat-related illness.

On June 28th alone, more than 1,000 heat-related visits to emergency departments were reported, compared with fewer than 10 visits during the same period in 2019.

When temperatures rise, people can become severely ill, or even die, if the body is unable to effectively sweat and cool off. High humidity increases the risk, because sweat can’t evaporate as quickly. That can lead to an increase in internal body temperature, which can cause muscles and enzymes to stop working and organs to shut down.

CDC graphs

ETA summer heatwave map of the Northwest

 

[ilovewings]

My post doesn’t say that. I agreed with 5w that there is more. Of course that is just my opinion. I guess what makes sense to one person, may not make sense to another. My apologies for the confusion. I hope this clears things up.

No need to apologize- I know people see things differently: i was just curious with my question

 

[IceIce9]

Why does there have to be more? The explanation of how they died makes sense to me.

I think the “more” that people want to know is actually the WHY, and we will never know.

Why they decided to hike on a day with a brutal heat forecast, why they didn’t take proper supplies and wear appropriate clothing, why they didn’t turn around and return to the car.

The “why” will never, can never, be known.

 

[IceIce9]

I've experienced the same with Florida sun and humidity - felt like I was being baked in an oven.

Having said that, I wonder if any of the family members had sunburns on their bodies, or were they well covered with sunshield?

I don't even know that sunshield would protect for long hours.

I am a bit confused, and was hoping someone here could clarify something. We die at body temp of approximately 105 degrees, correct? So how could anyone exert themselves in environmental conditions over 100 degrees, and not succumb? Even sitting out in a 105 + degree environment, with no protection from the sun, WITHOUT exerting yourself would kill you after a certain amount of time, wouldn't it? And at some point, having enough water doesn't matter, hyperthermia sets in. Same idea when it is cold, hypothermia sets in and people succumb? Philip Kreycik went on a very challenging run in extreme heat and succumbed this past year. So incredibly tragic, praying these cases educate others who love the outdoors.

The body regulates its own internal temperature very well under normal conditions. It will regulate to 97-98 degrees whether you are in an environment of 20 degrees outside or 90 degrees.

Prolonged exposure to very cold temperatures can cause hypothermia, and prolonged exposure to extremely hot conditions can cause hyperthermia.

Depending on overall physical condition, some will suffer the effects of extreme hot or cold temperatures before others.

 

[everybodhi]

The body regulates its own internal temperature very well under normal conditions. It will regulate to 97-98 degrees whether you are in an environment of 20 degrees outside or 90 degrees.

Prolonged exposure to very cold temperatures can cause hypothermia, and prolonged exposure to extremely hot conditions can cause hyperthermia.

Depending on overall physical condition, some will suffer the effects of extreme hot or cold temperatures before others.

Studies I posted back thread also found a genetic connection, proof some are just more prone than others.

 

[Pumphouse363]

My question is more specific. IMO Oski would have collapsed not that long into the hike. Were his paws burnt? If not it doesn't make sense that he was able to continue in this condition of such extreme heat. I still think something happened early on in their hike that may have spooked them to continue.

I’d like to know who was the ‘witness’ who saw the vehicle at 7.45am driving in the direction of Hites Cove and again saw the vehicle parked at the trailhead 15 minutes later. Was this person out on a hike? Did they know the family or were they just visitors to the area? If he/she was walking in the same direction there are only two paths to take (the same as Jon and Ellen). The one which LE says Jon and Ellen took to the left and the on the right, the Savage Lundy where they were found.
Surely the same conditions prevailed for this person? Where did they go? What did they see? If they had continued on the same trail as Jon and Ellen wouldn’t he/she have passed them being less encumbered? If he/she chose to trek down SL trail to the right, what was their experience? Obviously, at least one other person didn’t think it strange to be out walking that way on a hot Sunday morning - but nobody else.