UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 July 1986

Status
Not open for further replies.
The £3k was probably linked to bunnygirl work
 
Last edited:
DV's book unquestionably lifted the lid on how inadequate the original investigation into Suzy's disappearance was. I agree that DL's early involvement and subsequent influence on the case did not help matters at all, it was if the police were frightened of offending the family as regards Suzy's private life. Someone in the Met should have put a stop to this influence right away but they did not, and allowed DL to constantly have her say in the investigation - it was all wrong and should not have been allowed to happen.

Also the police threw all their eggs in one basket as regarding Mr Kipper, they concentrated wholly on looking for someone that might never had existed. Then of course it was obviously JC that done it, he matched the descriptions of the male seen in Shorrolds Road & of the man seen outside the Sturgis office (so does MG, who is 99.9 % more likely to have been in these locations than JC).

Then of course he was frequenting pubs in & around the Fulham & Putney area so it must be him (ignoring the fact that 100's of other males were frequenting them too), his MO for killing someone was to dump their body in water in the woods (if you kill someone & dump their body outside, where else are you supposed to leave it? In the bus shelter?).

And he must be Mr Kipper of course because he had a vehicle with a number plate that had SLP amongst it's letters. Of course it meant he killed Suzy Lamplugh, but for all they know it could have stood for Stupid London Police.

There were many people that Suzy was involved with in her life, and how many of these did the police really investigate? As has been said earlier, who was this mysterious new boyfriend she had? Did he speak to any of the media at the time? Why did AL portray himself as Suzy's boyfriend in the early days of the investigation? DL's influence perhaps?

I understand where DV is going in his book with the theory that Suzy was heading for the PoW pub but he needs evidence of this, not just a theory. He needs to find evidence that the pub was closed that day and that CV was on his own. If he can find proof of this it would strongly back his theory up, but right now I just can't see the police acting on this.
 
With a possible sexual aspect to the SL mystery...

Isn't it interesting that SLs friend for many years, described in Stephens book as her closest friend and confidant, herself went on to become a leading UK media expert celeb and authority on many aspects of sex!?

Books, TV appearances readily giving us her expertise, on a topic most of us would know just the basics!

A coincidence or matter of course?

I believe she researched her favourite subject thoroughly!
 
ISTR from the AS book - but it's been 30 years, so I could easily be wrong - that the police never did identify the rich guy with the Mayfair flat. Of course, if said rich guy was a john who booked SJL through an agency, of course they'd struggle.

If any of our speculation is accurate - promiscuous, bunny girl (interesting, Pinkizzy), on the actual game - it would probably have been catastrophic for the investigation. Because suddenly she's not an innocent any more so far as Joe and Jane Public are concerned.

@WiseOwl makes a good point that if this was suspected, the police, obviously in thrall to the Lamplughs, would probably have felt obliged to suppress it, like AS did.

The only thing that makes me consider JC could have been involved is this. During the Yorkshire Ripper hunt, the WY plod focused first of all on fitting up a local minicab driver who was a known peeping Tom. Every time there was a killing, they'd round up their usual suspect. Then they fell for the Wearside Jack hoax, so they started dismissing all suspects who weren't Geordies, hoping to find a suspect who was. Following Sutcliffe's arrest (by another force) and trial, Sir Laurence Byford wrote a report into the shortcomings of the investigation. One thing he did was pull the photofit of every stranger assault in the area for the last 15 years and cover a wall with them. Every single one was a recognisable sketch of Sutcliffe.

Had the WY police done this, they'd have realised one man whose name they knew was their entire crime wave. Any other conclusion would imply there were at least two different criminals out there, with the same MO in the same area at the same time. That would be so vanishingly unlikely they would surely have suspected and arrested Sutcliffe. They didn't because they'd already decided who was doing it.

So perhaps it is equally unlikely that, as well as JC, there was another abductor of random women at large in the area. Of course, if SJL was not a random civilian but something else, this may not have been the work of anyone similar at all...
 
Given SJL’s desire to experience as many men as possible and the possibility that JC was in the area it is likely that they crossed paths.
Being so secretive she would have kept his existence to herself and when he started to be a little weird decided to dump him.
Again it’s possible that he turned up at Shorrolds Road and tried to win her over, but had a fall back plan it he failed.
BW sighting SJL and a male heading towards Hammersmith / Acton that afternoon fits asking SJL to give him a lift back.
Then there’s the Grand Union sighting of JC dumping a large bag in the canal at Gallows Bridge.
Brentford is in the right area, and (I know this is second hand) the lorry driver was supposed to have gone to JC’s trial to confirm it was him. The timing of this is perfect, it’s the day after SJL’s disappearance featured on TV. It’s not unreasonable to expect to see no one along the canal at 5.00am.
When you look at these coincidences it hard not to think of JC. Okay, the canal is not a stream in a wooded area, but it’s still water and probably selected out of desperation.
As I’ve said before I don’t believe in coincidence, and this has too many to ignore.
 
Without a chance discovery of a body now, I don't think this mystery will ever be solved.

I'm sure though, over these pages we've sailed very, very close to what was going on in July '86. Perhaps in to terroritory and reasoning that the Met have never even considered.

Police incompetenance, failings and genuine mistakes, has meant a vast amount of money has been spent on this case, with virtually nothing to show for it.

We'll probably have a glut of rehash from tv and the tabloids as JCs seeks to exit prison.

Bottom line is, you do have to feel for SLs siblings, nephews and nieces who probably still believe that she just headed off from Shorrolds Rd with a bogus house buyer 'Mr Kipper' that day, never to be seen again.

They've been failed and denied justice for their loved one .....
 
Without a chance discovery of a body now, I don't think this mystery will ever be solved.

I'm sure though, over these pages we've sailed very, very close to what was going on in July '86. Perhaps in to terroritory and reasoning that the Met have never even considered.

Police incompetenance, failings and genuine mistakes, has meant a vast amount of money has been spent on this case, with virtually nothing to show for it.

We'll probably have a glut of rehash from tv and the tabloids as JCs seeks to exit prison.

Bottom line is, you do have to feel for SLs siblings, nephews and nieces who probably still believe that she just headed off from Shorrolds Rd with a bogus house buyer 'Mr Kipper' that day, never to be seen again.

They've been failed and denied justice for their loved one .....
I tend to agree, my sole purpose when I started looking at this (well over 2 years ago now) was to try and bring closure for the Lamplugh family. SJL’s brother really struck a cord with me, he’s such a nice guy and at this time in his life would appreciate being able to put Suzy to rest.
DV showed the errors made by the Met and highlighted another possibility, while this may seem remote, the police have wasted money on other investigations, while DV has some foundation, not just gossip.
I know the police probably just wish they could drop this 35 year old case, but it’s not going to fade away. So they should walk the walk and follow the last two leads:
  1. The JD witness dumping the large bag in the canal.
  2. DV’s PoW cellar and railway embankment survey.
The Met are good at talking, but not so good at putting the talk into action.
 
There are a number of coincidences, but then so were there with Barry Bulsara and Jill Dando, Colin Stagg and Rachell Nickell, Lesley Molseed and Stefan Kiszko, Joanna Yeates and Christopher Jefferies, and so on. For me the plod have stumbled into the too-many-coincidences rather too often, and coincidences aren't evidence.

There seem to me to be some practical issues around this being Cannan as well. JC's account is that after leaving the prison hostel, he had nowhere to go but his mother's house in east Birmingham, so that's where he went. She and others later confirmed that alibi for at least the first few weeks of his release. His involvement in SJL's disappearance would mean he had to have acquired some sort of base in west London. Where was that, and how was he paying for it? He couldn't even afford a car - he shared the use of a red Sierra with another lag.
 
I tend to agree, my sole purpose when I started looking at this (well over 2 years ago now) was to try and bring closure for the Lamplugh family. SJL’s brother really struck a cord with me, he’s such a nice guy and at this time in his life would appreciate being able to put Suzy to rest.
DV showed the errors made by the Met and highlighted another possibility, while this may seem remote, the police have wasted money on other investigations, while DV has some foundation, not just gossip.
I know the police probably just wish they could drop this 35 year old case, but it’s not going to fade away. So they should walk the walk and follow the last two leads:
  1. The JD witness dumping the large bag in the canal.
  2. DV’s PoW cellar and railway embankment survey.
The Met are good at talking, but not so good at putting the talk into action.

I agree with what you say @Terryb808, the police are always good at talking the talk but they don't always walk the walk.

The Lamplugh's are a genuinely nice family and they deserve much better than they have got from the police.

They should look at other options instead of all the focus being on JC.

Speaking of which, the show Faking It has their 'experts' examine the evidence in the case against JC. No doubt that their 'experts' will side with the police and say he's guilty as far as Suzy's concerned.

The show is on tomorrow night at 10 pm on Quest Red.
 
  1. The JD witness dumping the large bag in the canal.
  2. DV’s PoW cellar and railway embankment survey.
Did I read or have I misremembered that that canal is only about four feet deep and is dredged quite frequently anyway?

JC was always a bit of a weed and I'd be surprised if he was capable of heaving a suitcase with a body in it very far. Including the weight of the case we're talking about at least 130lbs of weight, maybe as much as 150lbs. Unless you're Arnie, you couldn't throw that sort of weight very far from the canal bank at all. So any suitcase is probably right by the bank in shallow water and should be easy to find.
 
There are a number of coincidences, but then so were there with Barry Bulsara and Jill Dando, Colin Stagg and Rachell Nickell, Lesley Molseed and Stefan Kiszko, Joanna Yeates and Christopher Jefferies, and so on. For me the plod have stumbled into the too-many-coincidences rather too often, and coincidences aren't evidence.

There seem to me to be some practical issues around this being Cannan as well. JC's account is that after leaving the prison hostel, he had nowhere to go but his mother's house in east Birmingham, so that's where he went. She and others later confirmed that alibi for at least the first few weeks of his release. His involvement in SJL's disappearance would mean he had to have acquired some sort of base in west London. Where was that, and how was he paying for it? He couldn't even afford a car - he shared the use of a red Sierra with another lag.
He was dating a solicitor from Bristol at some point, maybe she had a bolthole in London and stayed with her.
 
The Railway Murders and rapes took place between 1982 and 1986, one of the killers continued to rape women until his capture in Nov 1986 and the other one was caught in 1999. Maybe they have a link to SL.
 
Speaking of which, the show Faking It has their 'experts' examine the evidence in the case against JC. No doubt that their 'experts' will side with the police and say he's guilty as far as Suzy's concerned.

The Times coverage of last year's C5 documentary was just like this. It castigated "the insouciant arrogance of the investigating officer at the time. This excellent, meticulous documentary reminded us that Detective Superintendent Malcolm Hackett closed his mind to Cannan as a suspect, only wanting to eliminate him because he resented Suzy’s campaigning mother demanding that Cannan be interviewed properly."
The Vanishing of Suzy Lamplugh review — a case of the police doing nothing for too long | Times2 | The Times
Well, no, Hackett just didn't think there was any evidence, neither does the CPS, neither does DV.
 
Did I read or have I misremembered that that canal is only about four feet deep and is dredged quite frequently anyway?

JC was always a bit of a weed and I'd be surprised if he was capable of heaving a suitcase with a body in it very far. Including the weight of the case we're talking about at least 130lbs of weight, maybe as much as 150lbs. Unless you're Arnie, you couldn't throw that sort of weight very far from the canal bank at all. So any suitcase is probably right by the bank in shallow water and should be easy to find.
According to the witness he used a shopping trolley, you are right canals are usually 4 / 5 ft deep, however, that section is part of the river Brent. Yes, they dredge every 5 years, I discussed it with local River / Canal trust. They said back then dredging was deposited at the side of the canal. But now they have to take it away.
The police said they didn’t dredge it because it had alteady been done as part of another investigation. I’m not convinced.
 
There are a number of coincidences, but then so were there with Barry Bulsara and Jill Dando, Colin Stagg and Rachell Nickell, Lesley Molseed and Stefan Kiszko, Joanna Yeates and Christopher Jefferies, and so on. For me the plod have stumbled into the too-many-coincidences rather too often, and coincidences aren't evidence.

There seem to me to be some practical issues around this being Cannan as well. JC's account is that after leaving the prison hostel, he had nowhere to go but his mother's house in east Birmingham, so that's where he went. She and others later confirmed that alibi for at least the first few weeks of his release. His involvement in SJL's disappearance would mean he had to have acquired some sort of base in west London. Where was that, and how was he paying for it? He couldn't even afford a car - he shared the use of a red Sierra with another lag.

I get your point, but we cannot really in any way compare JC to those people other than Bulsara. Stagg was just a horny guy who lacked experience with women & at worst got naked in somewhere vaguely public, where a woman saw him. Jeffries only crime was to be the landlord of the missing woman, have a somewhat odd appearance & being eccentric. Kiszo had the mental age of a child & his only crime was to fall victim to the police. JC let us not forget was a prolific sex offender, robber & woman beater-who thought nothing of raping a woman in front of her mother & infant daughter. We also have to bear in mind he is a compulsive liar & manipulator- who lied through his teeth about Shirley Banks, despite the overwhelming evidence against him.
 
It would be interesting to hypnotise a witness to see what actually happened 30 years ago

It is hugely problematic-for one thing there has been so much out there in the media that the mind will be incapable of not mixing that in to their version of events-just as they do when not under hypnosis. Unfortunately as we have seen in cases of recalled childhood sexual abuse, UFO abductions etc, the person conducting the hypnosis can lead the person-often due to their own personal biases.
 
Did you read the bit about her on the ship? She walked into a fairly crowded cabin and straddled a man lying on the bed ...the rest is up to your imagination

I have a vivid imagination.

7zJe6ok.gif
 
One of her 'shipmates' from QE2 days also regularly met up with her just for sex.

Is Stephens virtually telling us what she did, without actually able to label it?

Remember the Stephens book was originally comisioned by the Lamplugh family who quickly then maligned the piece because of the seedy details.

This caused much pain to the anthor, a top respected journalist who was only reporting who he uncovered. He was just doing his job, well....

I get it-they had a fairy-tale image of their daughter in their mind & either didn't want to believe it, or thought it was irrelevant to her murder. But an author really has to look into it & if she lived a somewhat high risk lifestyle then that is clearly a valid line of inquiry.
 
ISTR from the AS book - but it's been 30 years, so I could easily be wrong - that the police never did identify the rich guy with the Mayfair flat. Of course, if said rich guy was a john who booked SJL through an agency, of course they'd struggle.

If any of our speculation is accurate - promiscuous, bunny girl (interesting, Pinkizzy), on the actual game - it would probably have been catastrophic for the investigation. Because suddenly she's not an innocent any more so far as Joe and Jane Public are concerned.

@WiseOwl makes a good point that if this was suspected, the police, obviously in thrall to the Lamplughs, would probably have felt obliged to suppress it, like AS did.

The only thing that makes me consider JC could have been involved is this. During the Yorkshire Ripper hunt, the WY plod focused first of all on fitting up a local minicab driver who was a known peeping Tom. Every time there was a killing, they'd round up their usual suspect. Then they fell for the Wearside Jack hoax, so they started dismissing all suspects who weren't Geordies, hoping to find a suspect who was. Following Sutcliffe's arrest (by another force) and trial, Sir Laurence Byford wrote a report into the shortcomings of the investigation. One thing he did was pull the photofit of every stranger assault in the area for the last 15 years and cover a wall with them. Every single one was a recognisable sketch of Sutcliffe.

Had the WY police done this, they'd have realised one man whose name they knew was their entire crime wave. Any other conclusion would imply there were at least two different criminals out there, with the same MO in the same area at the same time. That would be so vanishingly unlikely they would surely have suspected and arrested Sutcliffe. They didn't because they'd already decided who was doing it.


So perhaps it is equally unlikely that, as well as JC, there was another abductor of random women at large in the area. Of course, if SJL was not a random civilian but something else, this may not have been the work of anyone similar at all...

The problem wasn't the plods-it was the idiots like Oldfield who led the investigation & allowed it to be diverted. Some of the cops liked Sutcliffe for it, but they were ignored & told to look elsewhere or else. The other problem was the ridiculous filing system-even with the incompetents running that investigation, there is little doubt that if you fast forward a decade or even probably five years or so that computerised records would have led to Sutcliffe & a lot quicker-when you look at the amount of information the cops were dealing with via file cards & huge files to where they had to reinforce the floors to cope with the weight it is no wonder it took so long to catch him.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
78
Guests online
813
Total visitors
891

Forum statistics

Threads
589,923
Messages
17,927,722
Members
228,002
Latest member
zipperoni
Back
Top