CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #6

[neesaki]

Interesting, thanks!
In any case, she had to know about it because it was well known in San Francisco. I knew about it and I was not a teacher, just a class attendee in various yoga classes around town.
Bikram people were kind of the yoga equivalent of Soulcycle people - anyway, it was a thing and I’m sure she knew about it even if she hadn’t tried it.
But what if she had?
MOO

I hope you’re not saying that a parent would actually subject their young child, or any child, to Bikram Yoga. I’ve already come to the conclusion there is child and animal abuse here. But something like that would surely be the icing on the cake. I’m sorry, but This case is very upsetting as it is.

 

[neesaki]

Double Post

 

[neesaki]

DPost

 

[neesaki]

DBM

 

[happyday]

I agree with you totally @MrsEmmaPeel
I am a bit older than JG but I burnt out around his age...I was trying to manage multiple businesses, properties, parents, grandparents, extremely unhelpful banks, children, husband, dog, clients, non-stop social media interaction, health problems plus many more different projects simultaneously over many years. The 24/7 stress was enormous.

Indeed Life can be far more complicated these days if we allow it to be. Much more is expected of us. A lot comes down to knowing yourself 100% and applying 'boundaries'.

I'm convinced that perfectionists (knowing that I am a recovering one myself) have a huge time not giving in. It seems like an admission of defeat. It's really hard to turn around and retrace your steps especially if something is not working.

In the end my stressful life blew up. I was juggling too many balls. Luckily there were no casualties involved, thank goodness. I have learned a lot of lessons the hard way. I try to be much more relaxed as a consequence. Giving myself time and pausing to reflect on decisions helps massively.

This case has really intrigued me. It contains many elements afflicting all of our lives. Not least that of climate change.

I was also intrigued by what @ItalyReader was saying about their SF lifestyle. I too moved away deliberately from a City of London lifestyle a long time ago but I did not manage to shake the perfectionist tendencies until I was absolutely forced to. Hey ho.

My take on this:
1. They had moved to the area to live a particular lifestyle and they had to evidence that they were doing this to prove that it was working.
2. The loop was researched so it had to be done come what may.
3. It could be that they were trying to gain elevation to get a phone signal to get help combinec with getting back to the car. Staying down at the river seems/seemed counter intuitive (to them) - this reminds me a little bit of the Geraldine Largay case.
4. I cannot fathom bringing the baby and dog (those absolute darlings) but I believe that they were a big part of their new lifestyle. In fairness, that fateful day was a family outing to spend quality time together...
5. I agree again with @MrsEmmaPeel that involving a baby in your life is a huge, huge adjustment.

I sympathise and empathise with their families and friends enormously. I am sure that the family are hugely missed. May they rest in eternal peace.

Thank you to @Pumphouse363 who has been able to provide us with further information where info has been pretty scarce.

I have also read everyone's comments on these threads and learned a heck of a lot in the process. I'm still a Newbie here and am amazed at how much expertise and knowledge everyone has! I'm aiming to put a lot of this new-found valuable information into practice as soon as I can.

Really impressed with how your LE has handled the case too...really sensitively. It's nice to know that that can still happen in these weird times.

All of this JMO.

I love your post so much. And I think you’re spot on with regards to this case. And I’m glad you were able to shake the perfectionism—so many of could stand to do that. I see it in myself and my own family. It can really do damage to your mental well being.

Anyway, Welcome to WS! I hope you stick around and check out some other threads too.

 

[rahod1]

Some thoughts that linger for me...and I venture to say...for many here. JC and EC had precious cargo on board and one would think that would be an over arching concern in this undertaking.
Yet, everything we know about this venture seems question this concern (MOO). It appears that the challenge of this hike somehow overshadowed the potential dangers lurking for those who were completely dependent on the decisions of those on charge. Those in charge were woefully unprepared for the conditions confronting them. But that wasn't the "denouement" in this tragedy.
It was a failure to realize the vulnerability of the dependents and take PREEMPTIVE action to avoid potential harm to them. Any novice would certainly consider the welfare of those most vulnerable above any urges to accomplish a plan. There is term I would like to use here, but for the sake of the all victims I don't think it would be appropriate. We all make mistakes and I've had some
DOOZIES in my life (many years) , but in this case we have an agenda that seemed to over ride potential danger for those whose lives depended on sound judgement. MOO

 

[RickshawFan]

Dunno bout that. I joined WS (late, a week after this tragedy, on thread #2) specifically for this case as I have a bit of knowledge of this area. My first post that day asked; which direction of the loop were they hiking and did they have filtration equipment. By my third post a day later I theorized what you suggested. And I’m sure there was prolly someone from thread #1 doing the same. I kinda blathered on over 50 posts in the last two months but not backing away from original premise.

Probably time for me to back away from this until next time, and there will be a next time, for sure.

During lulls in this forum, checked out some of the other discussions. Too real for me, with real victims. Some of the spirit of this community has rubbed off on me, however. Just read my first whodunnit fictionalized murder mystery. If you like the Sierra, with vivid descriptions of trail life, and a good story, with likable characters and an engaging plot, JoBob sez check out ‘Danger: Falling Rocks’ by Paul Wagner, a recent release of a debut novel sure to become a series.

The realization came for me a week ago after being off grid for a week. After taking care of other business at 3 am I found myself posting and catching up on this thread. Wow, this is social media, I thought, I don’t do SM. But that is because of past associations. You guys are all so cool. Sorry, I didn’t ‘like’ any of you but love you all and appreciate learning from your thoughts.

May peace find the C/G families.

Ooh... that book looks great!

Thanks for all your contributions here.

 

[RickshawFan]

Agree. I think *Auntie* was assuming that taking FULL ADVANTAGE of the river water itself would be key to making this option work. In fact, had they been able to do that, they may have avoided certain death. Having said this, I'm of the same opinion you have expressed here... cut bait and take the shortest path back to the truck before it's too late.

IMO by the time they got to the river, they had already hiked too far in those conditions. The life-saving return spot was sometime before then. It was Death-Valley-hot in that canyon.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

BBM and Snipped
That may have been survivable, very LONG (7 miles from bottom HC Road at the river?) to the 140 and far AWAY from the truck. I think the alternative of hiking back UP HC Road ( 2miles), albeit steeper and no water, could have still been a viable alternative as well. I agree that aggressively utilizing the river water could have made the difference in taking the much longer route.

Agree. I think *Auntie* was assuming that taking FULL ADVANTAGE of the river water itself would be key to making this option work. In fact, had they been able to do that, they may have avoided certain death. Having said this, I'm of the same opinion you have expressed here... cut bait and take the shortest path back to the truck before it's too late.

Yes I was thinking about them actually staying in the river or right on the bank and making their way downstream. I had forgotten it was quite that long but then again they could have called for help as soon as they came into cell phone range or encountered other people, so not necessarily going all the way to the highway. Or sent the strongest adult ahead for help while the others waited at a shady spot along the river.

And it's true I originally thought their best plan would have been to remain at the river until just at dawn and then hike up to the truck just as you say.

I'm not really asserting either of those actions would have led to a different outcome, what I was really commenting on was how hard it was for us as WS readers (presumably sitting safely and not experiencing life threatening situations as we read and ponder and post), to come up with some possible best courses, and of course it would be that much harder to think clearly for the family in the midst of their crisis.

And my apologies, @sfinkz , for not registering that you did post this idea earlier. Once I started following the Gabby Petito case I ended up skipping and skimming many posts on many threads just to try to keep up and I think I missed your mentions of it.

 

[RickshawFan]

Some thoughts that linger for me...and I venture to say...for many here. JC and EC had precious cargo on board and one would think that would be an over arching concern in this undertaking.
Yet, everything we know about this venture seems question this concern (MOO). It appears that the challenge of this hike somehow overshadowed the potential dangers lurking for those who were completely dependent on the decisions of those on charge. Those in charge were woefully unprepared for the conditions confronting them. But that wasn't the "denouement" in this tragedy.
It was a failure to realize the vulnerability of the dependents and take PREEMPTIVE action to avoid potential harm to them. Any novice would certainly consider the welfare of those most vulnerable above any urges to accomplish a plan. There is term I would like to use here, but for the sake of the all victims I don't it would be appropriate. We all make mistakes and I've had some
DOOZIES in my life (many years) , but in this case we have an agenda that seemed to over ride potential danger for those whose lives depended on sound judgement. MOO

What they were wearing tells me they didn't understand the challenges. For me, it's that simple. They weren't just dealing with heat: they were also dealing with mind-blowing sun exposure. Sunscreen won't deal with 4 hours of that blast of UV. I wonder if they had sunstroke, too?
This trip went way beyond planning an overly-strenuous hike. (IMO it didn't reflect perfectionism, either, since IMO perfectionism doesn't apply to hiking, which is by nature unpredictable.). There were so many problematic decisions in the planning stage before they set out. They didn't check the forecast or guess from the temperature the day before? They hadn't enough experience hiking with the baby that they were familiar with their average pace? Water, water, water....

 

[rahod1]

IMO by the time they got to the river, they had already hiked too far in those conditions. The life-saving return spot was sometime before then. It was Death-Valley-hot in that canyon.

Yes..I pointed out Marble Point as a safe turnaround...but I still think they had a shot down at the river. I still can't comprehend why they would continue at that point.

 

[rahod1]

What they were wearing tells me they didn't understand the challenges. For me, it's that simple. They weren't just dealing with heat: they were also dealing with mind-blowing sun exposure. Sunscreen won't deal with 4 hours of that blast of UV. I wonder if they had sunstroke, too?
This trip went way beyond planning an overly-strenuous hike. (IMO it didn't reflect perfectionism, either, since IMO perfectionism doesn't apply to hiking, which is by nature unpredictable.). There were so many problematic decisions in the planning stage before they set out. They didn't check the forecast or guess from the temperature the day before? They hadn't enough experience hiking with the baby that they were familiar with their average pace? Water, water, water....

BBM
All this for me was a given. I was trying to delve into the mind set of JG and his priorities.

 

[HannahJJJ]

I hope you’re not saying that a parent would actually subject their young child, or any child, to Bikram Yoga. I’ve already come to the conclusion there is child and animal abuse here. But something like that would surely be the icing on the cake. I’m sorry, but This case is very upsetting as it is.

Imo/Moo there is much more to this tragedy
than simple human error. I see the possibility of serious mental health issues operating or something outside of JG and EC that forced them to be in that very perilous environment, especially perilous for a tiny little 12 month
old and Oski, the children who Graced their lives. There has to be much more to the story.

 

[HannahJJJ]

IMO by the time they got to the river, they had already hiked too far in those conditions. The life-saving return spot was sometime before then. It was Death-Valley-hot in that canyon.

Moo...it was Burning Man hot. Moo. All Moo.

 

[NSamuelle]

Imo/Moo there is much more to this tragedy
than simple human error. I see the possibility of serious mental health issues operating or something outside of JG and EC that forced them to be in that very perilous environment, especially perilous for a tiny little 12 month
old and Oski, the children who Graced their lives. There has to be much more to the story.

Ellen, by her own admission, had a TBI (traumatic brain injury) sustained in 2008/2009 and a “debilitating health condition” for which she quit her job in early 2019, but proceeded to hike in the Gobi desert and have many adventures afterwards. She was 3 years in to a 2-year degree in couples’ counseling. She may not have understood the risks they were undertaking. I am heartbroken by this and what the families must be experiencing, never knowing the “why.”

 

[5W's]

What if they dropped something in the parking lot and were delayed looking for whatever they lost but they still wanted to try out the new baby carrier. So the search for the lost item tires them and then they hike to try the carrier out by the time they get to where they were found deceased they are tired (but this would mean that they wouldn't have hiked as much as has been described in our previous threads) and decide to rest. But the sun is beating down on them and its hard to continue so they stay where they are as confusion is setting in by this point. Maybe that's why Oski's paws weren't burnt (if that's the case that his paws were not burnt, LE has said very little about him.) I wonder if we will ever know about the results of the necropsy on Oski.

 

[5W's]

..continue the route he researched and mapped out the night before, during an ongoing heatwave.

He could have been researching it for something completely different. Plus he and EC were aware of the ongoing heatwave. They have known this area for the last four years as well.

 

[RickshawFan]

My question is more specific. IMO Oski would have collapsed not that long into the hike. Were his paws burnt? If not it doesn't make sense that he was able to continue in this condition of such extreme heat. I still think something happened early on in their hike that may have spooked them to continue.

The baby must have been screaming most of the trip, too. Certainly by the time they got to the river. The pack fabric for baby’s seat would have made her super hot.
Did LE mention diapers? That might have been how they deduced dehydration.

 

[NSamuelle]

What if they dropped something in the parking lot and were delayed looking for whatever they lost but they still wanted to try out the new baby carrier. So the search for the lost item tires them and then they hike to try the carrier out by the time they get to where they were found deceased they are tired (but this would mean that they wouldn't have hiked as much as has been described in our previous threads) and decide to rest. But the sun is beating down on them and its hard to continue so they stay where they are as confusion is setting in by this point. Maybe that's why Oski's paws weren't burnt (if that's the case that his paws were not burnt, LE has said very little about him.) I wonder if we will ever know about the results of the necropsy on Oski.

I can’t think of anything compelling that would have been left in the parking lot giving rise to a search, given that they had so little — and apparently nothing was recovered from the parking lot or at any point in the trail.

Ellen had no phone of her own, neither had hats or extra water despite a ~10L deficiency for the intended route, and Oski had no water bowl.

 

[5W's]

The baby must have been screaming most of the trip, too. Certainly by the time they got to the river. The pack fabric for baby’s seat would have made her super hot.
Did LE mention diapers? That might have been how they deduced dehydration.

Its so very sad imagining this about the baby in such distress!