Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

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IMO it sounds like this armourer wasn't qualified for this position.

Still if this kind of accident is possible, there should be procedure in place to prevent harm in the event the armourer makes an error.

The reports that weapons previously misfired on this set and then this still happened is mind-boggling.
 
I don’t see why many people are holding Baldwin responsible. It seems to me the armourer is the one who made the mistake. She had one job………

Alec Baldwin 'Rust' Head Gun Handler Had Doubts About Experience Level
Yes but he was a producer of the movie. Arguably he had some say in the hiring of an inexperienced armourer. Definitely not holding him solely responsible but there were a lot of problems and lax safety protocols on set according to crew and he was in a senior position. I imagine blame lies with multiple people though.
 
With any luck it’ll lead to fewer films glorifying gun violence. It’s not big and it’s not clever.

Safety protocols are always reactive. My friend works for an agency that garnishes money from people's pay checks for child support. They used to allow the "clients" to talk to the workers, in an office. Until one "client" almost killed a worker.

Now, everything is done by telephone calls, e mail, and the office location, and employees names are not public information. Reactive to the above situation.

So, maybe there will be more changes in the movie industry in reaction to this tragedy.
 
Safety protocols are always reactive. My friend works for an agency that garnishes money from people's pay checks for child support. They used to allow the "clients" to talk to the workers, in an office. Until one "client" almost killed a worker.

Now, everything is done by telephone calls, e mail, and the office location, and employees names are not public information. Reactive to the above situation.

So, maybe there will be more changes in the movie industry in reaction to this tragedy.
Much like medical errors… protocols are changed after an error occurs if the protocol wasn’t enough, if followed correctly, to prevent the issue.
ETA: Clearly the protocols in place were not followed correctly.
 
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I do not know all the details but I know one thing. AB is an actor; he depends on every single professional around him to do their jobs in a thoroughly competent manner, as he does his. He is absolutely NOT responsible. If he was responsible he would be the armorer / prop master. JMO
 
How live rounds came to be inside a firearm intended for a movie shooting remained a mystery.

If it's true that a live round was fired from the prop gun I want to know who brought live ammunition onto the set.

There's no reason for live ammo to be around and mistakenly loaded into a gun. Was someone target shooting the prop guns during breaks in filming? JMO.

Alec Baldwin was told firearm was unloaded, search warrant says: report
 
I do not know all the details but I know one thing. AB is an actor; he depends on every single professional around him to do their jobs in a thoroughly competent manner, as he does his. He is absolutely NOT responsible. If he was responsible he would be the armorer / prop master. JMO
Absolutely agree.
 
I do not know all the details but I know one thing. AB is an actor; he depends on every single professional around him to do their jobs in a thoroughly competent manner, as he does his. He is absolutely NOT responsible. If he was responsible he would be the armorer / prop master. JMO
If Alec Baldwin had not pointed the gun directly at the victims the projectile would have missed and no one would have died or been injured. JMO.
 

I don't think they get any credit for that. "Live" ammunition is always supposed to be banned from any movie or tv set.

I get the feeling that some of these shows/movies are crossing the boundaries for safety to have flashier shooting sequences, explosions, etc. in order to attract more viewers. I don't know who watches shows for that reason, but it seems pretty dumb, JMO.

I'm beginning to understand why so many actors and other workers in the film and tv industry are complaining and going on strike. Apparently, a lot of bigwigs, directors, etc. have been pushing the envelope to be as "edgy" as possible.

The minority of viewers/moviegoers who insist people put their lives on the line to entertain them that way need to find a new hobby or learn to live w/o it. Though I don't watch them, the movies with all the fast, dangerous driving and car crashes seem very problematic, too.

Those of us who love beautiful scenery in movies have had to adapt to CGI, so it's not too hard.

ETA: I must say I love what camera drones have done for video, movies, tv, etc. Apparently, they usually don't put anyone at risk and they're able to get amazing shots. I love it. I just saw some clip last night of drone video flying over London at night with those shots that look straight down. Fabulous, gorgeous.
 
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I do not know all the details but I know one thing. AB is an actor; he depends on every single professional around him to do their jobs in a thoroughly competent manner, as he does his. He is absolutely NOT responsible. If he was responsible he would be the armorer / prop master. JMO

According to union rules and standard practice in the industry, the actor who shoots the prop gun is supposed to be shown the gun by the armourer, who shows him/her what is inside the gun. Obviously, there should be no live rounds.

When the gun is handed to the actor, the actor is supposed to recheck the gun (as all gun users in the world are supposed to do) in front of the armourer and verify that what the armourer said is true. Either no rounds at all (typical for a rehearsal - which this was), or blanks (and there are different kinds, which both the armourer AND the actor are supposed to verify).

So yes, Alec is responsible, along with the armourer, and along with the producers and along with the production company (which Alec Baldwin owns).

The rules have been posted somewhere on this thread and are available all over the place, due to this incident. The fact that this production was low budget, that some of the workers say there were problems cashing their checks, and that they were using a non-union armourer are all the fault of the production company, which Alec owns.

The rules also say that even a prop gun should never be pointed directly at a human. Keep in mind that they weren't even filming at the time Alec fired the weapon (either once or twice).

Which is what SFCSO got a warrant and confiscated all the cameras, weapons, and whatever else they confiscated. Being on a movie set does not absolve anyone from the ordinary laws of using firearms. If, as first reported, Alec shot directly at the director and the cinematographer, he is indeed responsible.

Further, it was a real gun and therefore, all the laws of handling real guns apply. It was a Colt 45 revolver, one of the easiest guns in the world to check to see if it has rounds in it. For this rehearsal, it ought to have had zero rounds. Who put the rounds in? Why? Were people in the crew having fun with target practice out in rural Santa Fe County? Colt revolvers take a good amount of force on the trigger (not a hair trigger, IOW). Someone pulled the trigger without checking to see if there were rounds in the gun. It is at the very least negligent discharge of a firearm, which is a crime most places.

Actors ARE responsible when they hold real guns in their hands, just like every other citizen. There are no exemptions for ACTORS in any state law that I've ever heard. That's why the rules used by the Propmasters Union should be obeyed as if they are law - because otherwise, many, many people are exposed to liability and could all be charged as part of a crime when a gun kills someone.

It is true that juries have been lenient with film accidents - particularly when it's obvious that it's a car or helicopter accident - but look up the Vic Morrow case. Charges were filed against the director (because a scene was being directed and filmed, unlike in this case) and three others.

Since the director was also shot in this incident, it will be very interesting to hear what he has to say if this goes to trial.
 
If Alec Baldwin had not pointed the gun directly at the victims the projectile would have missed and no one would have died or been injured. JMO.

Which is why all shots in a film are blocked (actors are told exactly where to stand and where to aim) so that even an unloaded proper gun is never pointed directly at anyone and since blanks can injure, same thing - never point a gun at anyone. If in fact it had been blanks in the gun (and I suppose it still could be the case - although it appears to have been a live round), the actor is still supposed to allow the director to tell him exactly where to stand and at what non-human object to aim (while the cinematographer's job is to make it look as if it's a real scene of shooting). In this case, they were about to rehearse a scene that had Alec Baldwin walking backwards out of a church while shooting at the interior of the church (and instead, he shot the prop weapon under entirely different circumstances, directly at the cinematographer and the director).

BTW, when a scene is shot where a gun is supposed to look as if it is being shot directly at the camera, the camera is operated remotely and everyone must be 50 feet away.

This movie will never see distribution through any normal channels (and is it true that it is Netflix-sponsored? Because if so, boy, what liability Netflix has for hiring such an irresponsible production company). I can't imagine that Netflix would allow a contract with a production company that didn't follow union rules...
 
Yikes, this was one month ago

Hannah had previously apprenticed alongside her dad who helped train her up, and revealed she had worried about working with blanks until she ‘figured out on her own’ how to make them ‘go when you want it to’.

She continued: ‘He took me from being completely green and taught me everything I know so far and by all means, I am still learning.

‘Dad has taught me everything but a lot of things I just kind of caught on by myself through observation, watching him do things or just knowing how the firearms work.

‘I think loading blanks was the scariest thing to me because I was like “oh I don’t know anything about it.”

Rust armorer was ‘new to job’ and worried she ‘wasn’t ready’ on past project

Good God, she didn't know anything about blanks? She was green and should never have been doing that job.

Moo.
 
I don't think they get any credit for that. "Live" ammunition is always supposed to be banned from any movie or tv set.

I get the feeling that some of these shows/movies are crossing the boundaries for safety to have flashier shooting sequences, explosions, etc. in order to attract more viewers. I don't know who watches shows for that reason, but it seems pretty dumb, JMO.

I'm beginning to understand why so many actors and other workers in the film and tv industry are complaining and going on strike. Apparently, a lot of bigwigs, directors, etc. have been pushing the envelope to be as "edgy" as possible.

The minority of viewers/moviegoers who insist people put their lives on the line to entertain them that way need to find a new hobby or learn to live w/o it. Though I don't watch them, the movies with all the fast, dangerous driving and car crashes seem very problematic, too.

Those of us who love beautiful scenery in movies have had to adapt to CGI, so it's not too hard.

I think sometimes that when a production is very small and people are hired on the same day as a shoot, rules get broken. Further, I hope SFCSO measured blood alcohol levels. I suspect that this may be a group of people who were pretending to be cowboys out there, and may have been using those classic weapons for target practice - with live rounds. Or even shooting at animals, who knows. All I know is that SFCSO has now searched the set, taken a lot of things, and if they find live rounds, that will be quite interesting. It will be the personal fault of the various armourers, and criminal liability for the productio company (Alec Baldwin).
 
I suspect when all is said and done that many people will be found culpable to varying degrees. But for me, common sense tells me that those whose job descriptions were literally to handle the safety of the guns and props bear the most significant amount of responsibility. If your job title is armourer or includes prop management in the title, it would seem that every other employee on the set is relying on you to manage and ensure the safety of the prop guns.

Someone or some persons literally failed at what was their entire job and purpose on the set. Those whose duty it was to double or triple check those people, as maybe 2% of their entire job duties, bear some responsibility, of course. But come on - if your ONE job is this - your entire purpose for being on the set is this, it seems to me the greatest failure was there.

Or the person who hired her...since she expressed doubts about her competence from the get-go.

Legally, however, gun laws of the State of New Mexico still apply.
 
I think sometimes that when a production is very small and people are hired on the same day as a shoot, rules get broken. Further, I hope SFCSO measured blood alcohol levels. I suspect that this may be a group of people who were pretending to be cowboys out there, and may have been using those classic weapons for target practice - with live rounds. Or even shooting at animals, who knows. All I know is that SFCSO has now searched the set, taken a lot of things, and if they find live rounds, that will be quite interesting. It will be the personal fault of the various armourers, and criminal liability for the productio company (Alec Baldwin).

Had the same thought about drug and alcohol tests. From the reporting so far, it's only said they spoke to people and didn't mention anything about any testing.
 
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