CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #6

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Found this today. Scroll to bottom of article for this quote:

Adults tend to experience a gradual decline in their ability to function, but young children, who cope with physiological stress differently, might seem okay and then suddenly die… it's best to avoid bringing a child out in extreme temperatures that they are not acclimatized to, and especially if there is no access to proper hydration.
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Heat and dehydration killed a family of 3 on a hike. A survival expert says such tragedies are more common than you think.

If the adults were already experiencing confusion from dehydration, sudden deaths of Miju or even Oski could have accelerated less than rational decision making.

MOO
 
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rahod1 said:
https://name.memberclicks.net/assets/docs/MANNEROFDEATH.pdf
"Risk-taking behavior poses challenges when classifying manner of death. More and more, people are engaging in risky sports, recreational activities, and other personal behaviors. Injury or death, when it occurs during such activities, is not entirely unexpected, prompting the argument that such deaths may not truly be “accidents.” Further, relevant differences in the nature and extent of risk, when comparing risky activities, are difficult to clearly identify. For example, how does placing an “unloaded” gun to the head and pulling the trigger (Roulette) differ from jumping from a bridge on an elastic cord, engaging in sexual acts with a noose around the neck, or participating in a sport in which blows to the head are part of the “game.”? These are challenging questions."
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Thank you, @rahod1 for posting that document on manner of death. Very helpful. I appreciated what you excerpted for your post.

And here is what I found particularly interesting: "There are basic, general “rules” for classifying manner of death.

• Natural deaths are due solely or nearly totally to disease and/or the aging process

• Accident applies when an injury or poisoning causes death and there is little or no evidence that the injury or poisoning occurred with intent to harm or cause death. In essence, the fatal outcome was unintentional.

• Suicide results from an injury or poisoning as a result of an intentional, self-inflicted act committed to do self harm or cause the death of one’s self.

• Homicide occurs when death results from a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide (more below). It is to be emphasized that the classification of Homicide for the purposes of death certification is a “neutral” term and neither indicates nor implies criminal intent, which remains a determination within the province of legal processes.

• Undetermined or “could not be determined” is a classification used when the information pointing to one manner of death is no more compelling than one or more other competing manners of death in thorough consideration of all available information.

• In general, when death involves a combination of natural processes and external factors such as injury or poisoning, preference is given to the non-natural manner of death."​

And when this is all said and done, based on the wide range of discussion we've had here which, IMO could boil down to two possible manners of death - Accident vs. Homicide, I wonder if LE will classify the manner of these deaths as "Undetermined" or perhaps will assign different manner of death to family members. All IMO!

ETA: https://name.memberclicks.net/assets/docs/MANNEROFDEATH.pdf
 
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RedHaus said:
Thank you, @Seattle1 and @Lexiintoronto, for your affirmations. So, I want to reiterate what I think is a very important point, IMO: You'd think with heat stroke / dehydration as cause of death for the three humans, then manner of death would be 'accident' per Lexiintoronto's example, above.

Does the fact the Sheriff did NOT announce a manner of death and deflected a related question, mean manner of death is in fact still undetermined? If so, since the SO had previously announced suicide was ruled out, that leaves accident, homicide, and natural manners of death as possible findings for this case.

This is very important, IMO, because some sleuthers trying to explain the outcome remain curious whether manner of death could in fact be homicide for one or more.
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IMO, this case is a perfect example of why the 5th manner of death exists: Undermined.

I don't think authorities can state unequivocally that the family was intent on spending more than an early morning hour in the cove on their Sunday outing with their beloved baby and dog in tow. :eek:

I also thought Sheriff Jeremy Breise was very convincing on 8/20 when he initially cited they were taking it slow, first investigating any mines in the area, and toxic algae bloom. Adding that the family had a small quantity of water when recovered, IMO, there wasn't even a hint during the first presser that hyperthermia was being considered as the leading cause of death. I'm sure heat exhaustion was discussed on WS long before it surfaced in print!

Personally, I think it was probably the Sheriff's earliest demeanor that caused me to gravitate towards lightning as the cause of death. (See 2 min video at the link below). While I accept that hyperthermia/heatstroke killed the family and their dog, I'd be more comfortable with this finding if it was introduced earlier as the most likely cause of death but that investigators also wanted to be thorough and continue to eliminate any other possibilities before making a formal announcement.

MOO

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253616898.html
 
rahod1 said:
Was the cell service operating in the area? Actually I think putting a * I'm lost* message in the voice mail is preferable if there's NO CELL SERVICE available. MOO
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If there’s no cell service available, what good is trying to change the voicemail going to do? Isn’t the whole point that anyone calling you will get your old voicemail?
 
rahod1 said:
On the money. I think there are some here that simply can't IMAGINE HOW this family could fail to properly plan for a hike of this magnitude under extreme conditions, so there's a temptation to *rationalze* this either by positing that 1) they DIDN'T plan to do the entire hike and were diverted or 2) They thought the hike would be relatively easy (they did the research) requiring minimal preparation and miscalculated . These scenarios are RED HERRINGS for me. The real question..yes I beat this drum...>>> At some point things weren't going well..for whatever reason...and CHANGING the plan should have become a priority. Cut bait and live for another day. The focus for me is WHY not CHANGE the plan when it became apparent they could be in big trouble?
Bottom line for me (MOO)>> They planned the hike and decided to finish it.
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Yep, I’m one of them. That said, I want to apologize for coming across as too strong in seemingly blaming the parents. What I really wanted to get across was, that I don’t believe these loving parents would put their beloved child and dog at risk in this situation. I realize I might be in the minority with that opinion. I do appreciate everyone’s independent thoughts and contributions on this baffling case. You are all invaluable.
FWIW, I have a background in domestic violence, child abuse, and…… I love dogs. Specifically, thanks to @Lex Parsimoniae, who called me out.
 
Seattle1 said:
IMO, this case is a perfect example of why the 5th manner of death exists: Undermined. Undetermined.

I don't think authorities can state unequivocally that the family was intent on spending more than an early morning hour in the cove on their Sunday outing with their beloved baby and dog in tow. :eek:

I also thought Sheriff Jeremy Breise was very convincing on 8/20 when he initially cited they were taking it slow, first investigating any mines in the area, and toxic algae bloom. Adding that the family had a small quantity of water when recovered, IMO, there wasn't even a hint during the first presser that hyperthermia was being considered as the leading cause of death. I'm sure heat exhaustion was discussed on WS long before it surfaced in print!

Personally, I think it was probably the Sheriff's earliest demeanor that caused me to gravitate towards lightning as the cause of death. (See 2 min video at the link below). While I accept that hyperthermia/heatstroke killed the family and their dog, I'd be more comfortable with this finding if it was introduced earlier as the most likely cause of death but that investigators also wanted to be thorough and continue to eliminate any other possibilities before making a formal announcement.

MOO

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253616898.html
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Bump to correct my spelling "undetermined." (phone typing sucks).. :oops::oops:
 
Seattle1 said:
IMO, this case is a perfect example of why the 5th manner of death exists: Undermined.

I don't think authorities can state unequivocally that the family was intent on spending more than an early morning hour in the cove on their Sunday outing with their beloved baby and dog in tow. :eek:

I also thought Sheriff Jeremy Breise was very convincing on 8/20 when he initially cited they were taking it slow, first investigating any mines in the area, and toxic algae bloom. Adding that the family had a small quantity of water when recovered, IMO, there wasn't even a hint during the first presser that hyperthermia was being considered as the leading cause of death. I'm sure heat exhaustion was discussed on WS long before it surfaced in print!

Personally, I think it was probably the Sheriff's earliest demeanor that caused me to gravitate towards lightning as the cause of death. (See 2 min video at the link below). While I accept that hyperthermia/heatstroke killed the family and their dog, I'd be more comfortable with this finding if it was introduced earlier as the most likely cause of death but that investigators also wanted to be thorough and continue to eliminate any other possibilities before making a formal announcement.

MOO

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253616898.html
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The recovery team must have suffered in the heat, being on site during the hottest part of the day on both Tuesday and Wednesday, and of course "Briese said one rescuer was treated for a health issue related to the heat but was OK" according to the Not One Clue article. So I don't know why he didn't list heat as a possible cause right off the bat, the recovery team must have told him how hellish it was. Once I saw how barren and steep it was, and they published the estimated temperatures for Sunday, I put Too and Too together- too hot, too steep and shadeless. Anyone who's hiked with temps in the low 90's would find those conditions shocking. The bodies were found out in the open, on a steep slope, a considerable distance from any old mine, making carbon monoxide or some other toxic gas extremely unlikely, but those things were mentioned, while extreme heat was not. Go figure. MOO
 
Lex Parsimoniae said:
The recovery team must have suffered in the heat, being on site during the hottest part of the day on both Tuesday and Wednesday, and of course "Briese said one rescuer was treated for a health issue related to the heat but was OK" according to the Not One Clue article. So I don't know why he didn't list heat as a possible cause right off the bat, the recovery team must have told him how hellish it was. Once I saw how barren and steep it was, and they published the estimated temperatures for Sunday, I put Too and Too together- too hot, too steep and shadeless. Anyone who's hiked with temps in the low 90's would find those conditions shocking. The bodies were found out in the open, on a steep slope, a considerable distance from any old mine, making carbon monoxide or some other toxic gas extremely unlikely, but those things were mentioned, while extreme heat was not. Go figure. MOO
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Still, the very day the thread opened here, 14th post:
CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death remote hiking area, Aug 2021
 
Is the gate at the trailhead ever open?

I think I saw a YouTube video a while back where you can drive your car/truck down Hites Cove Road (OHV) or whatever it is called.

Perhaps this wasn't meant to be a hike that day but turned into one. Maybe they were expecting to be able to drive down to the river and back. They were only thinking of walking the dog and the baby along by the river and that most of their supplies were in their truck. They would have easy access to them. They would have access to air conditioning, water, baby formula etc etc from the truck. Then drive back.

They found, unexpectedly, that they could not drive down that day. The gate was shut. Whilst they were thinking what their next plan was: the dog ran off/escaped from the truck at the top of the trailhead.

I have had some dogs where if they smelled something they disappeared and I could not get them back for love nor money. (We have a calmer breed now - a golden retriever - and he is a lot more biddable - yeah!)

If Oski ran off down the slope they would have had to have grabbed whatever they had and given chase. In that way, they ended up being 'locked in' to that day/hike/those awful temperatures without really planning for them.

They perished for the love of their dog rather than anything lacking on their part. They just may have been rushed out into it all.

I still think it is 'the incident pit' theory that works for me. It would also make sense of why the dog was said to be leashed to J at the very end.

The OnX map might be a red herring (J might have been very well aware of what they were up against); the pic of the backpack/baby carrier might be a red herring. The whole loop hike, itself, might be a red herring.

Other people have posted that it might have been meant to have been a shortish walk that morning that went pear-shaped very quickly.

It would make sense of a 'hike' that would test Sherlock himself.

All MOO.
 
rahod1 said:
Was the cell service operating in the area? Actually I think putting a * I'm lost* message in the voice mail is preferable if there's NO CELL SERVICE available. MOO
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Yes, a phone needs connectivity -- either cell service or wifi internet -- in order to change the outgoing vm message.

And if you're lost but still have cell service, don't waste time changing your vm, just call 911!

The only way this vm thing could really be helpful is if people changed their outgoing message BEFORE setting out, saying where they're headed and when they expect to be back. But that has security issues of its own of course. You don't want every warranty salesman to know where you're hiking...

Or if a person doesn't have friends or family with whom it makes sense to leave that info, folks should leave it on a note at home. But most of us don't do any of the above.
 
Lex Parsimoniae said:
In the beginning there were MSM interviews with friends, associates and people who had interacted with them locally. Those people all said good things about them. I also never saw any negative info, like mention of arrest records or how many times the sheriff had been called to their house. The search warrants were executed and "nothing of interest" was found. I don't feel I know a lot about them, but I wouldn't go so far as to say I have "zero information" to go on about the lives of the family. What I've seen (except for that catastrophic last day) is positive. MOO
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It's interesting how different perspectives are on this thread. Some may identify with the Gerrish-Chungs because they have kids, they live in CA, they're in tech, they have a dog....... for me, they are a blank. I feel as though I know absolutely zip about them, except the decisions they made that fateful day. And I don't know all the decisions, either; perhaps if I did, I'd have new material for my perspective.
I have no relevant category to consider them from. I could have kids, but not a tot. I could have a dog, but a lap dog, not a big one. I could be really into Glastonbury, but not Burning Man. IMO, I could be all of those things. But nothing is ringing a bell of verisimilitude for me. Blank.
 
Auntie Cipation said:
@Lucy Locket , as far we know, the gate was at the top of Savage-Lundy (which is not driveable and which they were attempting to hike UP).

No one has mentioned a gate at the top of the OHV road they hiked DOWN (IMO).
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So @Auntie Cipation they could have driven down it but did not? If they had...things might well have turned out differently?
 
Lucy Locket said:
So @Auntie Cipation they could have driven down it but did not? If they had...things might well have turned out differently?
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I don't know if the OHV road is wide enough for regular vehicles or narrow so only OHVs will fit.

If it is wide enough, I would have expected the LE/SAR to drive down it in their search, but they apparently didn't.
 
Seattle1 said:
IMO, this case is a perfect example of why the 5th manner of death exists: Undermined.

I don't think authorities can state unequivocally that the family was intent on spending more than an early morning hour in the cove on their Sunday outing with their beloved baby and dog in tow. :eek:

I also thought Sheriff Jeremy Breise was very convincing on 8/20 when he initially cited they were taking it slow, first investigating any mines in the area, and toxic algae bloom. Adding that the family had a small quantity of water when recovered, IMO, there wasn't even a hint during the first presser that hyperthermia was being considered as the leading cause of death. I'm sure heat exhaustion was discussed on WS long before it surfaced in print!

Personally, I think it was probably the Sheriff's earliest demeanor that caused me to gravitate towards lightning as the cause of death. (See 2 min video at the link below). While I accept that hyperthermia/heatstroke killed the family and their dog, I'd be more comfortable with this finding if it was introduced earlier as the most likely cause of death but that investigators also wanted to be thorough and continue to eliminate any other possibilities before making a formal announcement.

MOO

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253616898.html
Click to expand...

I have reason to believe it was found to be an ‘accident’ for all three, my opinion only. I’m hoping a MSM source will mention it.
 
Auntie Cipation said:
I don't know if the OHV road is wide enough for regular vehicles or narrow so only OHVs will fit.

If it is wide enough, I would have expected the LE/SAR to drive down it in their search, but they apparently didn't.
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There were several links to trip reports/reviews of the OHV rd that were posted earlier. People do drive full-size 4WD vehicles on it, it's challenging and a problem if you meet people going the other way. But they close it to vehicles in summer because of the fire danger. I believe from photos that it is a single gate across the road that blocks vehicle access to both the Hites Cove OHV rd and the section of rough road going to the start of the Savage Lundy trail. MOO
 
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