UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 July 1986

[Terryb808]

AL's reaction in the book still seems odd to me. The questions DV put to him were not hinting at Suzy's potential 'other life' but rather about the last time he saw Suzy, the weekend before she disappeared.

Now this might still be an upsetting memory for AL to remember, and rightly so. However, he did agree to be interviewed by DV and he must have known that potentially there was going to be some awkward or upsetting questions he would face.

If he felt this way (which his reaction to the questions seems to show), why put himself through it and agree to be interviewed in the first place? What sort of questions did he think DV would ask him?

This is JMOO of course but I do wonder if the following happened that weekend.

In an old documentary AL said the Friday night at Mossop's and then at the pub round the corner (presumably the Prince of Wales) had been a pleasant night out.

However, I do wonder if this actually was the case. As we know when AL was on holiday Suzy had apparently got herself a new boyfriend, so on this Friday night out did she tell him about this new man in her life, and the evening did not go as well as AL had said - maybe they had a disagreement and that's why they didn't go to the pub?

On the Saturday evening Suzy went to a party but AL wasn't invited (maybe because the new BF was there?), and on the Sunday Suzy went with her friends to Worthing that afternoon. AL did turn up but had to make his own way there and back. So that Saturday and Sunday it doesn't appear that Suzy wanted to be in AL's company much at all.

There was supposed to be a phone call that night around 10.15, but AL said he couldn't remember if Suzy called him or he had called her. It was supposedly about meeting up with friends on Tuesday night, but how do we know this for sure? Suzy wasn't around to tell the story, so for all we know it could have been AL getting angry with her for snubbing him that weekend.

So did DV's interview with him bring this all back, that maybe things were not so fine-and-dandy between him and Suzy after all? Hence his reaction by storming out of the meeting with DV and Caroline.

I think you’re 100% on the money with your summary.
Even after all this time some things remain in the memory banks and hurt when a seemingly simple question is asked.

 

[WestLondoner]

I think MG's occasional awkwardness is simple enough to understand. Between the lines, he was clearly the one who should have remembered to tell the police that there was only one key to the house SJL supposedly visited. The police got in to that house using what they probably assumed - unforgivably - to be another key. They then went on to assume that SJL had gone there using some other key and they staged a TV reconstruction that cemented this pretty dubious assumption into the public consciousness.

Every bit of subsequent "witness" information has fallen completely into line with this narrative. Any that might have shed light on a different course of events has never seen the light of day. If you saw CV emerging from the basement of the PoW on the relevant day, carrying a spanner and running towards a white Fiesta, you have never come forward because everybody knows where SJL went and your recollection has no relevance to the known facts. The official narrative has surfaced only dubious corroborative evidence, while suppressing any that would undermine it.

It was not MG's job to do the police's job for them, and the fault for this clearly lies with the plod for not asking how many keys there were, not with MG for not volunteering it. But he may, 35 years on, be feeling a bit sheepish.

 

[Pinkizzy]

MG knew about SLs shopping trip to Putney during her lunchhour and the staff at Sturgis knew about the missing items at the pub. When did the cops visit the pub? Was it a week after SLs disappearance?

 

[WestLondoner]

Iirc MG was aware that SL might leave the office to go shopping, but I can't see why he would object to her doing this in her lunch hour.

 

[Pinkizzy]

If the cops knew about her shopping trip then they would have focused their search on Putney.

 

[Terryb808]

The thing with witnesses is that they only remember events that are in some way out of the ordinary. As you go about your daily routines you’ll most likely not notice a person unless they are strikingly different.
However, if you know that person, then you’ll remember, that’s why BW is important, she knew SJL and she seemed so sure it was her she saw on Monday afternoon.

MG probably knew SJL nicked an odd hour to do personal errands, but as she worked evenings and delivered the good he let it pass.

What I still feel is strange is AL’s reaction to DV’s interview, yes somethings are painful to recall, but I’d not expect that much emotion.
I base this on personal experience with a similar event and in my case it was far more harrowing. Yet a similar amount of time has passed and while the memory is painful, it doesn’t generate such an emotional response. This is why I find AL’s outburst so strange.

On the police entering 37 Shorrolds Road, its possible that they didn’t need a set of keys at all. They could have opened the front door without keys and without damaging it, its not that difficult (depending on the door and type of lock) especially back in 1986.

 

[Terryb808]

Abduction of Melanie Hall
Some time back (and maybe in the thread that was zapped) JC was linked to the disappearance of this poor victim. It was said that he coached someone while in prison and they then committed this abduction. Goes to show how JC seems to be to blame for everything, even when in prison.
Seems he has a rival.
IMO Christopher Halliwell is far more evil.
Serial killer Christopher Halliwell linked to unsolved murder of Melanie Hall

 

[Pinkizzy]

Abduction of Melanie Hall
Some time back (and maybe in the thread that was zapped) JC was linked to the disappearance of this poor victim. It was said that he coached someone while in prison and they then committed this abduction. Goes to show how JC seems to be to blame for everything, even when in prison.
Seems he has a rival.
IMO Christopher Halliwell is far more evil.
Serial killer Christopher Halliwell linked to unsolved murder of Melanie Hall

Steve Wright is familiar with Middlesbrough, he may have killed the prostitutes

 

[Konstantin]

I wonder if maybe AL's outburst was because he realizes or now knows that the narratives set in motion by the investigation and DL are in fact pointing in the wrong direction, and so having believed and gone along with the "SJL was abducted from Shorrolds Road or met her abductor there" he is now realising that SJL most likely never went there and the key to her disappearance might lie with events on the Sunday night (when AL wasn't with her, and now he thinks well, hang on, maybe she was with someone else then...maybe she went to the pub (the pub that he might have seen as "their place") with another person.

At first AL did say that he and SJL went to the pub on the Saturday night, right?

Now he has to confront the idea that SJL might have been lying to him and gone out on the Sunday to the same pub, lost her stuff then (maybe she'd had a few), we only have his word for it that they spoke on the phone on the Sunday.

So its less that there is an emotional impact now, all these years later, of realizing that SJL might have not been really his gf any more or might have been cheating or two timing him -- its more perhaps the awful feeling that the person responsible for what happened to her was allowed to slip through the net because he and DL and the police investigation believed his story about him and SJL being exclusive/ her going to Shorrolds/ not really wanting to think about what she might have been up to on the Sunday night.

"You'll never find her" could be an emotional reaction to AL's own guilt over this, that SJL will never be found because its too late now to figure out what happened and the opportunity to follow the trail has been lost.

 

[Konstantin]

Iirc MG was aware that SL might leave the office to go shopping, but I can't see why he would object to her doing this in her lunch hour.

DV explains why in his book -- the company had a policy of one person having to be in the office at all times at lunch time, and SJL would have been alone in the office, so the only way she could leave during that time window was if she had a legit house viewing appointment, hence she made one up to allow her to skip off and do whatever she needed to do.

She'd had a bit of a row with MG that morning, and MG had already gone to lunch with SF who was actually his gf at the time and who should have been in the office...

And the big boss was floating around too, who was very strict and would have taken a dim view of MG letting SJL go off on personal business during the lunch hour.

So it does point to her having something pressing to do that lunch time as she had never made a bogus client up before as her diary showed.

Meaning it was likely not a shopping trip.

And since she was on the phone about her diary to the pub before she left -- as was reported in the Stevens (?) book who must have got it from the police investigation at the time -- its actually pretty reasonable to hypothesize that she was skipping off there to grab her precious diary since she could not do so at 6pm when she had a legit house viewing.

 

[Terryb808]

Steve Wright is familiar with Middlesbrough, he may have killed the prostitutes

Yes, the newspaper article was about the girl from Bath, however, I have looked into the there girls that disappeared in Middlesborough. Two were found, one is still missing and one person has been charged with the murder of Rachel Wilson (he confessed to manslaughter). The other two remain unsolved, its become very clear that the area they frequented was not short of men capable of abduction and murder.
My reason for looking was a possible link to SJL's disappearance, I have to say its tenuous, and unlikely. It's been a shocking revelation the life these poor three girls lived.

 

[Terryb808]

DV explains why in his book -- the company had a policy of one person having to be in the office at all times at lunch time, and SJL would have been alone in the office, so the only way she could leave during that time window was if she had a legit house viewing appointment, hence she made one up to allow her to skip off and do whatever she needed to do.

She'd had a bit of a row with MG that morning, and MG had already gone to lunch with SF who was actually his gf at the time and who should have been in the office...

And the big boss was floating around too, who was very strict and would have taken a dim view of MG letting SJL go off on personal business during the lunch hour.

So it does point to her having something pressing to do that lunch time as she had never made a bogus client up before as her diary showed.

Meaning it was likely not a shopping trip.

And since she was on the phone about her diary to the pub before she left -- as was reported in the Stevens (?) book who must have got it from the police investigation at the time -- its actually pretty reasonable to hypothesize that she was skipping off there to grab her precious diary since she could not do so at 6pm when she had a legit house viewing.

As you say DV worked this out because he did what every re-investigation should have done. Ignore what's gone before and start from the beginning.
You've made things very clear, the disagreement with MG and seeing MG & SF go out to lunch must have made SJL very angry.
We're all assuming that she had something very important to attend to during her lunch break, this may be so, however, she may have decided to spite MG and go anyway.
If its the latter, then the most likely destination would be the PoW to collect her things, it was the last call she made (or received) was from someone at the PoW.
On this basis its not unreasonable to conclude that's where she went and following DV's advise "just follow the timeline" is where I concluded she was going.
As I've said before I think we have three possible options:

1. SJL went to the PoW and actually made it into the pub.
2. SJL never made the PoW and was abducted when she got to her car.
3. SJL actually had an important appointment and met an unknown male.

Maybe we should have a vote and see which is the most likely?

 

[Pinkizzy]

DV explains why in his book -- the company had a policy of one person having to be in the office at all times at lunch time, and SJL would have been alone in the office, so the only way she could leave during that time window was if she had a legit house viewing appointment, hence she made one up to allow her to skip off and do whatever she needed to do.

She'd had a bit of a row with MG that morning, and MG had already gone to lunch with SF who was actually his gf at the time and who should have been in the office...

And the big boss was floating around too, who was very strict and would have taken a dim view of MG letting SJL go off on personal business during the lunch hour.

So it does point to her having something pressing to do that lunch time as she had never made a bogus client up before as her diary showed.

Meaning it was likely not a shopping trip.

And since she was on the phone about her diary to the pub before she left -- as was reported in the Stevens (?) book who must have got it from the police investigation at the time -- its actually pretty reasonable to hypothesize that she was skipping off there to grab her precious diary since she could not do so at 6pm when she had a legit house viewing.

Stephens wrote that SL lost her items in or on the steps outside Mossops. DV suggests that SL lost her items when making a call from the phone box outside the PoW

 

[Pinkizzy]

@WiseOwl Did you watch John Cannan on Faking it (Quest Red)?

 

[WestLondoner]

It wasn't MG she had an altercation with, it was NH.

 

[Terryb808]

@WiseOwl Did you watch John Cannan on Faking it (Quest Red)?

I watched it, don’t know much about the experts, however, my take on it was that JC was admitting other crimes, but saying he didn’t abduct SJL.
Seems he was obsessed with SJL’s disappearance and the notoriety it generated and (as others have said) wished he’d committed it.
He is an attention seek control freak.

 

[Terryb808]

It wasn't MG she had an altercation with, it was NH.

Yes, got the the wrong way round, the principal remains, she was by all accounts a head strong girl. She would have needed to be to succeed.

 

[WestLondoner]

I watched it, don’t know much about the experts, however, my take on it was that JC was admitting other crimes, but saying he didn’t abduct SJL.
Seems he was obsessed with SJL’s disappearance and the notoriety it generated and (as others have said) wished he’d committed it.
He is an attention seek control freak.

This is a really good point. Not enough attention is given to the possibility that JC might simply have quite enjoyed being linked to this famous crime, because he's a psychopath. It keeps the attention on him, makes him feel important, breaks the routine of prison with entertaining interviews, and allows him to pontificate at coppers. These are all appealing to a psychopath. Best of all, it carries no risks, because he didn't do it, he doesn't know who did it any more than the police do, and if a body's ever found nothing will connect him to it.

What he didn't envisage was the change in the law that allowed him to be kept in jail on pure suspicion, which is no doubt why he's now back-pedalling so much.

 

[WiseOwl]

@WiseOwl Did you watch John Cannan on Faking it (Quest Red)?

Yes I did watch it. I don't think it shed any new light on if JC was involved in Suzy's disappearance, he is very manipulative and a pathological liar.

As others have said he probably would liked to have been the person responsible for Suzy's disappearance, but I really don't think that he was responsible.

Did you watch the show @Pinkizzy?

 

[WestLondoner]

Thinking about these calls to the pub the afternoon SJL disappeared, both are intriguing. The one from the supposed police officer makes no sense because why would they get involved in a found cheque book; so I tend to think this was from the killer checking when and where she was expected.

The one from the woman is really interesting because this was apparently from a "Sarah" asking that SJL be kept there until she herself arrived. This was looked into at the time and SJL apparently did not know any Sarah. Could SJL have been meeting a married man that day, whose wife's name was Sarah? Thus SJL knows the man who has edged out AL (and others) is married, and she knows his wife's name is Sarah, and Sarah has worked out who SJL is and where she will be, and Sarah intends to go there and confront her husband's mistress. SJL won't be keen to meet Sarah, neither will her diary contain Sarah's phone number.

Did not AS indicate that SJL had become involved with a married man?