GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #66

[Puzzles8]

A fine example of complicity...
Nazi 'secretary of evil', 96, was informed 'down to the last detail' of every murder method used at Stutthof concentration camp, trial hears as she denies complicity in more than 10,000 deaths

Nazi 'secretary of evil' was informed 'down to the last detail' of every murder method at camp | Daily Mail Online

JMO

Even if G4 just stood there and watched his brother and father heinously murder 8 people, he was, at a minimum COMPLICIT. I can't believe he wasn't carrying at least a back up weapon, back up ammo, using the cell phone jammer, using the night scope, transporting them between murder scenes and taking down surveillance. IIRC correctly, LE thinks the crimes were committed over a relatively short time period. IMO, that means a lot of hands were needed.

I think the subsequent recorded conversations between Jake and G4 in their vehicles will support that.

We also know BCI followed them to AK. IMO, BC has to have some interesting recorded conversations and surveillance from their year up there. It's a mighty long, cold and dark winter up there, I'm sure there was a lot to talk about around the fireplace...........

All completely IMO, JMO, IIRC and etc.

 

[Cool Cats]

Even if G4 just stood there and watched his brother and father heinously murder 8 people, he was, at a minimum COMPLICIT. I can't believe he wasn't carrying at least a back up weapon, back up ammo, using the cell phone jammer, using the night scope, transporting them between murder scenes and taking down surveillance. IIRC correctly, LE thinks the crimes were committed over a relatively short time period. IMO, that means a lot of hands were needed.

I think the subsequent recorded conversations between Jake and G4 in their vehicles will support that.

We also know BCI followed them to AK. IMO, BC has to have some interesting recorded conversations and surveillance from their year up there. It's a mighty long, cold and dark winter up there, I'm sure there was a lot to talk about around the fireplace...........

All completely IMO, JMO, IIRC and etc.

Chris Graves letter dated March 6th, 2019
telling her that her communication with the Wagners had been intercepted starting June 9th, 2017 for 30 days then another 30 day extension was granted on July 7th, 2017.

All those times in Alaska that Chris Graves was communicating with the Wagners over e-mail/phones etc..BCI was monitoring it. This was from
June 9th until August 9th 2017.

MSM From Chris Grave's Twitter account:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/b5970061-96a9-4921-b102-09ffced54757-jpeg.178064/

 

[NWLady]

Actually it is on Nov. 17th.

11/17/2021 01:30 PM MOTION HEARING DEERING, RANDY D

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...n1DH2ZvPReBhLVwjePGhtf0EtSgYnMAYy2L2wrktZJCeQ

Thank you @Niner for always providing this information for us! It is greatly appreciated!

 

[Cool Cats]

Do any of you sleuths have any idea of what the word "strike" is referring to?

George
10/25/2021

STATE'S MEMORANDUM CONTRA DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISMISS AGGRAVATED MURDER COUNTS AND/OR DEATH SPECIFICATIONS AND STATE'S MOTION TO STRIKE

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Do any of you sleuths have any idea of what the word "strike" is referring to?

George
10/25/2021

STATE'S MEMORANDUM CONTRA DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISMISS AGGRAVATED MURDER COUNTS AND/OR DEATH SPECIFICATIONS AND STATE'S MOTION TO STRIKE

A motion to strike is a request to a judge that part of a party's pleading or a piece of evidence be removed from the record. MOO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thank you for clarifying your position. If it helps, I didn't assume you thought GW4 should be allowed to raise his own child if he ever is released before the child's age of consent. But I did express my opinion on that thorny issue, as it's been discussed here.

We need to be cognizant of the extreme risk in GW4's attorneys waging a media campaign to exonerate him and win an acquittal. Some folks don't fully understand the potential for this to happen, nor that complete acquittal may be the goal for GW4's attorneys.

I also didn't assume you thought FW wanted an acquittal for GW4 so he could help run the farm or business. (I don't think there's any factual, current information about what kind of farming or animal husbandry is taking place there.) The prospect of FW working to secure GW4's release for that purpose has been discussed. JMO, it's a likely scenario.

Did we ever determine who is paying for the two women who are assisting GW4's attorneys in this case? In court filings, Nash states that the state is not paying for their salaries. It would be interesting to know who is.

Could be students.

 

[Cool Cats]

A motion to strike is a request to a judge that part of a party's pleading or a piece of evidence be removed from the record. MOO

What else do they want to strike besides the Motion itself? There is something else they want to "throw out."

Memorandum contra is an opposing party's explanation to the court of why the other party's motion should be denied.

But they normally do not also add a completely separate Motion to strike. I haven't seen it done in almost 3 years.

STATE'S MEMORANDUM CONTRA DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISMISS AGGRAVATED MURDER COUNTS AND/OR DEATH SPECIFICATIONS -- AND STATE'S MOTION TO STRIKE

So there is something else besides this specific Motion the prosecution wants to get rid of, it will be interesting to see what it boils down to.

(Just speculation only on my part)

 

[Cool Cats]

Could be students.

It could be FW trying hard behind the scenes to help so she is paying them.

Remember, who would have paid George's Bond had he gotten it? You can't get Bond without money/assets to back it up and then without afterwards having housing and financial support.

FW was involved with Billy's Bond, offering him the position of caretaker of FWF if he was released so I think she was involved in George's Bond and is involved now in his Case behind the scenes and maybe financially.

See Billy's Bond Motion at the end of this MSM article, it mentions him being caretaker of FWF.

Citing 'weak' case, Billy Wagner asks court for reasonable bond

Billy Wagner bond request by WKRC on Scribd

Uploaded by
WKRC Cw-Affiliated Television Station

...2 Cents...

 

[Betty P]

What else do they want to strike besides the Motion itself? There is something else they want to "throw out."

Memorandum contra is an opposing party's explanation to the court of why the other party's motion should be denied.

But they normally do not also add a completely separate Motion to strike. I haven't seen it done in almost 3 years.

STATE'S MEMORANDUM CONTRA DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISMISS AGGRAVATED MURDER COUNTS AND/OR DEATH SPECIFICATIONS -- AND STATE'S MOTION TO STRIKE

So there is something else besides this specific Motion the prosecution wants to get rid of, it will be interesting to see what it boils down to.

(Just speculation only on my part)

Maybe its just two steps for that process. The memorandum is their explanation and evidence why the motion to strike should be denied and the other is the official motion..

Im posting on my tablet so formatting, etc is messy.
ETA Are George's attorneys asking the judge to strike the murder charges altogether or just the aggravated murder charges? Whichever it is, the state isn't backing down on any of it. They have the evidence they need.

ETA 2 Im looking at it again. The motion to strike does mean something different.

 

[Cool Cats]

Maybe its just two steps for that process. The memorandum is their explanation and evidence why the motion to strike should be denied and the other is the official motion..

Im posting on my tablet so formatting, etc is messy.

Could be, thanks.

The prosecution obviously is deadly serious about doing all it can to get that Motion denied by Judge Deering.

Leave no I's un-dotted and leave no T's un-crossed.

Point is, I think the prosecution wants to keep all of George's 8 murder charges on the table. I don't think he will be offered a 30 year deal with all 8 murders charges dropped.

And I would be surprised if the families wanted George to get a plea dropping all 8 murder charges, not when he actually went to the crime scenes.

But if George were to get a 30 year offer of prison time I do not believe he would take it. I believe we will be sitting here next year discussing George's trial and he will be stuck going through trial (not in Pike County but in a different County I think) with his 8 murder charges before the Jury.

I think the prosecution wants him to go to trial under the 8 murder charges. I would be shocked if Deering throws any of them out.

 

[Cool Cats]

Maybe its just two steps for that process. The memorandum is their explanation and evidence why the motion to strike should be denied and the other is the official motion..

Im posting on my tablet so formatting, etc is messy.
ETA Are George's attorneys asking the judge to strike the murder charges altogether or just the aggravated murder charges? Whichever it is, the state isn't backing down on any of it. They have the evidence they need.

ETA 2 Im looking at it again. The motion to strike does mean something different.

You added to your post:

"Are George's attorneys asking the judge to strike the murder charges altogether or just the aggravated murder charges? "

So I want to mention that
I believe, from the Motion, that it says that the defense wants both:

Strike down the 8 murder charges and also strike down the aggravating factors because those are what get him the actual death penalty.

So the defense wants it all to to be striked and just have the 14 charges left for now, which they will deal with later they say.

George Wagner IV
Motion #73
Motion To Dismiss Aggravated Murder Counts And/Or Death Specifications

"Here, Mr Wagner is only asking the Court to dismiss Counts 1-8 (Aggravated Murder) and the related Death Specifications but reserves the right to ask the Court to dismiss the entire Case for lack of sufficient evidence at the appropriate time or for other distinct legal reasons."

1.) No DNA or other biological evidence linking him to the murders.
2.) No video recorded voluntary confession.
3.) No video recording conclusively linking him to the murders.

Recently provided Discovery makes it clear that George did NOT shoot and kill any of the victims.

"...Thus, the State seeks to hold the death penalty over the head of George Wagner who did not kill anybody while it has struck a remarkable plea bargain with the actual killer of at least 5 victims who also shot a sixth victim."

"...George Washington Wagner IV shot nobody."

 

[Betty P]

Could be, thanks.

The prosecution obviously is deadly serious about doing all it can to get that Motion denied by Judge Deering.

Leave no I's un-dotted and leave no T's un-crossed.

Point is, I think the prosecution wants to keep all of George's 8 murder charges on the table. I don't think he will be offered a 30 year deal with all 8 murders charges dropped.

And I would be surprised if the families wanted George to get a plea dropping all 8 murder charges, not when he actually went to the crime scenes.

But if George were to get a 30 year offer of prison time I do not believe he would take it. I believe we will be sitting here next year discussing George's trial and he will be stuck going through trial (not in Pike County but in a different County I think) with his 8 murder charges before the Jury.

I think the prosecution wants him to go to trial under the 8 murder charges. I would be shocked if Deering throws any of them out.

I was just reading about a case here involving a man who was murdered by his wife with the help of her boyfriend. Though the wife shot and killed her husband, the boy friend gave her the weapon then got rid of the evidence later. He was also charged with aggravated .murder, even though he wzsnt in the building wheen the murder happened.

George is much worse than that boyfriend. His crime was murder OF 8 PEOPLE. He helped procure and hide multiple weapons. He went in and out of 4 crime scenes. All on the same night, of his own free will. JMO he did shoot at least one victim, probably fought with and restrained others.

No jury is going to give him a break. He's not likeable or sympathetic. He's not even remorseful.

 

[Cool Cats]

I was just reading about a case here involving a man who was murdered by his wife with the help of her boyfriend. Though the wife shot and killed her husband, the boy friend gave her the weapon then got rid of the evidence later. He was also charged with aggravated .murder, even though he wzsnt in the building wheen the murder happened.

George is much worse than that boyfriend. His crime was murder OF 8 PEOPLE. He helped procure and hide multiple weapons. He went in and out of 4 crime scenes. All on the same night, of his own free will. JMO he did shoot at least one victim, probably fought with and restrained others.

No jury is going to give him a break. He's not likeable or sympathetic. He's not even remorseful.

Yah, he is infamous and very unlikeable. His charges alone make him unlikable but there is something extra creepy about him.

George looking angry at his arraignment

I don't think they will find a jury for him in Pike County.

Can you imagine being on the jury and listening to his ex-wife testify how he abused her and stole her son away? And reading a transcript while listening to his recorded voice in court making threats?

The jury will put him away for life. 2 Cents

George Wagner IV enters 'not guilty' plea in Rhoden family massacre

 

[altojack]

George is going down. There's no way he can get out of any of this mess, he was involved in it so he has to pay.

Surely the Judge won't buckle and look leniently on him. No Jury is going to let him go free.

The above is all MOO, all of it.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Could be, thanks.

The prosecution obviously is deadly serious about doing all it can to get that Motion denied by Judge Deering.

Leave no I's un-dotted and leave no T's un-crossed.

Point is, I think the prosecution wants to keep all of George's 8 murder charges on the table. I don't think he will be offered a 30 year deal with all 8 murders charges dropped.

And I would be surprised if the families wanted George to get a plea dropping all 8 murder charges, not when he actually went to the crime scenes.

But if George were to get a 30 year offer of prison time I do not believe he would take it. I believe we will be sitting here next year discussing George's trial and he will be stuck going through trial (not in Pike County but in a different County I think) with his 8 murder charges before the Jury.

I think the prosecution wants him to go to trial under the 8 murder charges. I would be shocked if Deering throws any of them out.

If they decided to drop the murder charges on the 8 victims than I hope GW4 gets 10 years each for the remaining 12 counts, for a total of 120 years

 

[Betty P]

It could be FW trying hard behind the scenes to help so she is paying them.

Remember, who would have paid George's Bond had he gotten it? You can't get Bond without money/assets to back it up and then without afterwards having housing and financial support.

FW was involved with Billy's Bond, offering him the position of caretaker of FWF if he was released so I think she was involved in George's Bond and is involved now in his Case behind the scenes and maybe financially.

See Billy's Bond Motion at the end of this MSM article, it mentions him being caretaker of FWF.

Citing 'weak' case, Billy Wagner asks court for reasonable bond

Billy Wagner bond request by WKRC on Scribd

Uploaded by
WKRC Cw-Affiliated Television Station

JMO, I've little doubt she's behind this and possibly the attempts to get George set free.

.

...2 Cents...

 

[Cool Cats]

@Betty P POST
"JMO, I've little doubt she's behind this and possibly the attempts to get George set free."

Me:
Some things $ can't buy.

George entering courthouse for his arraignment before he walks up steps to the left.

Jake not smiling

• George Wagner IV denied bond as he pleads not guilty to murders of 8 people in Pike County
• Two family members charged in Rhoden family murders appear in court as case progresses

 

[Nanasteele]

It could be FW trying hard behind the scenes to help so she is paying them.

Remember, who would have paid George's Bond had he gotten it? You can't get Bond without money/assets to back it up and then without afterwards having housing and financial support.

FW was involved with Billy's Bond, offering him the position of caretaker of FWF if he was released so I think she was involved in George's Bond and is involved now in his Case behind the scenes and maybe financially.

See Billy's Bond Motion at the end of this MSM article, it mentions him being caretaker of FWF.

Citing 'weak' case, Billy Wagner asks court for reasonable bond

Billy Wagner bond request by WKRC on Scribd

Uploaded by
WKRC Cw-Affiliated Television Station

...2 Cents...

FW and her daughter have been very quiet! When was last they were seen in court?

 

[Cool Cats]

FW and her daughter have been very quiet! When was last they were seen in court?

The last time F and R Wagner were seen in court is January 21st, 2020 for George's 2:00pm hearing. (from discussion on hearing 2 cents)

After that Covid got bad and the Wagner court dates got pushed back to June and FW and RW stopped coming.

Last MSM Documentation of both FW and RW being in court for a Wagner Hearing:

July 24th 2019
George Wagner trial postponed, grandmother stands by him

George Wagner has a young son. He appears much thinner since his arrest last November. His grandmother, Fredericka Wagner, was in court Wednesday to support him along with his aunt, Robin Wagner

“George is innocent. My whole family is innocent. That’s all I have to say. It will all come out eventually,” Fredericka Wagner said after the hearing. “He’s lost a lot of weight. But he’s strong and he’s got a strong faith in God. So have I and so did Jacob. Our whole family and we just believe, I know Christ is with him. The boys are hanging on to Jesus and that’s what we’re going to keep on doing.”

Nov. 8th 2919
Report: ‘They really don’t bother me,’ Fredericka Wagner says of BCI agents in new interview

She told the Guardian’s Derek Myers she barely notices a team of agents on her 2,000 acre property.

“They’re just outside, looking around, but they don’t really bother me,” Wagner told Myers. It was noted the agents had metal detectors and dive teams.

She told the Guardian BCI did not tell her what they were searching for when they knocked on her door Monday and told her they would be conducting a five-day search on the farm

“They’re not under my feet. I hardly see them,” Wagner told the Guardian.

Photos from the scene Thursday posted on social media by local news reporters show agents with metal detectors and wearing dive suits searching a small lake on the Wagner property. Fredericka chuckles when asked about it.

“It’s not that very deep,” she told Myers. “They didn’t really say [what they were looking for].” He noted she laughed when he asked her about it.

He also says she told him she was a ‘woman of God’ and maintained the innocence of her children.

“It will all turn out in the end, I have a lot of faith in that,” she told the Guardian. “I’m innocent. They didn’t have any evidence against me, and also, my children are innocent.”

There was an article where FW said LE would find "zero nothing" in their searches of her property.

I wonder if this "small not very deep lake" is where LE found the cement buckets.

 

[Betty P]

He noted she laughed when he asked her about it.

I'm sure she did. She's probably not laughing now.

I don't think they found anything in that 2019 search. Jake probably didn't make a plea offer and provide them the correct pond location until sometime last year or early this year.

JMO